subscribeIf I had a record label, would you be signed to it?
April 24th, 2008If I had a record label, would you be signed to it?
I never liked the idea of having a record label, because you’re too deeply invested into something you don’t control.
So if I were to have a label, my decision on who to sign wouldn’t be decided just by the quality of the music. There are plenty of people with great music but destructive work-habits or an unsustainable approach to their career.
To confidently invest in an artist (as a label), I’d want to see:
- every song has been absolutely improved repeatedly - every note/syllable crafted to be the best it can be
- vocal performance is not just perfect but head-turning, striking
- arrangement is everything it can be to bring out song/vocal
- arrangement offers a new idea to the world, and not just the usual paint-by-numbers
- photos/image are striking and amazing, and capture the essense of the music
- live show is so entertaining that even a deaf person would enjoy it
- band has been around, recording and gigging, for at least 2 years
- artist has done this for a few years and still believes that this is their real calling in life, regardless of external rewards (or total lack of)
- band members don’t need unreasonable amounts of money to perform (can perform profitably)
- band can entertain a crowd without props or big sound system (in-store appearances)
- off-stage persona is sustainable (stamina, dealing with fans well, etc)
- no addicts - to anything
- an unflappably healthy attitude to the immense amount of work it really takes to be successful at anything
And so you see why I’ll never have a label. Who could possibly fit this list? Garth Brooks? Dave Grohl?
I haven’t talked to any labels about this yet, but I wonder what their perspective would be. I’m friends with Jac Holzman who discovered the Doors and obviously didn’t regret it, despite Jim Morrison being the opposite of everything on my list. I should ask him. (Jac, not Jim.)
Anything you’d add to the list? (I’m assuming there are many things you’d subtract.)
April 25th, 2008 at 1:09 am
How about signing bands and artists whose strengths outshone their weaknesses? We are defined by our flaws and without them we lose our humanity. Unfortunately I think that using your own model, you wouldn’t end up with the creative and lucrative label that you wanted, and would in fact end up with the very thing you are trying to avoid - blandness.
I think you should simply gravitate towards the music that gets you stoked, and make the business decision later. I get the feeling that this post is the distributor in you talking, and not the A&R development team or manager.
I’m not sure if I’d want to hear any of the songs of someone who fitted your current criteria. Here’s to being flawed, even fatally, in the hope that something unique will come from it. Because after all, if you do have something truly unique (which is one of your points) then to be honest a lot of the other points seem less important.
Your ‘label’ doesn’t sound particularly nurturing and sounds to me that by the time you’d be ready to commit to signing a particular artist they would already have been snapped up by someone else. Another label would have signed them if they even hit a few of your points, and worked on the rest over time.
Don’t forget, a lot of the things on your list an artist is actually looking for help with, to fill in the gaps, to understand the arena they’re going in. It’s your expertise which can help them grow and learn how to do the other stuff that they’re looking for. Some bands have the look and not the music, others the music but not the look, some bands market themselves brilliantly but need help with the songs etc etc - nobody’s perfect, there’s always room for improvement.
And with a label’s help, a band or artist can learn, grow and improve. Learn, grow, improve. Judging from your list it appears you don’t want to put any work in, which is what we’ve all been moaning about the majors for for years. You would probably have to wait for a band to be signed to a small label who do all this nurturing over two years, and then lure them with money away from the people who helped them develop. Like the majors have been doing for ages - to cash in on a sure bet, somone somewhere is going to have put the work in first.
So personally I’d settle for great music, and just figure out if I could work with these people or not. I think you’ve answered your own question when you couldn’t think of any artists who fitted your criteria - anyone who fitted all the criteria wouldn’t sign to your label anyway - because they’d already be extraordinarily successful in their own terms. What could you possibly offer an artist who ticks all your boxes?
April 25th, 2008 at 2:17 am
Things I would add…
1. Learning to play your main instrument to an ability that’s beyond good.
2. Write what is striking to you personally. Then figure out how to make it something others will find striking.
3. Learn to write, then learn to re-write. Well written songs can withstand genres and stereotypes.
4. Don’t be afraid to try different instruments in a song.
5. Can’t play something correctly - Hire someone who can.
6. Are the songs your writing causing you to get goosebumps? They should.
7. Is your performing ability enough to give people goosebumps? It should.
8. Be so compelling that hit songwriters want to write with you.
9. Check the attitude at the door. Nothing prevents you from getting work faster than being a dick or blowing off a gig.
10. Don’t let a relationship dictate your actions.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:57 am
As a musician I would naturally take quite a few things out of this list because there is enough emirpical evidence out there that musicians have got signed to labels without fully satisfying this list. E.g live shows for one. Joe Satriani’s is an extremely rated and talented guitarist but his live shows are boring, yet I would still be more than willing to go to his shows…Things like songwriting and vocals are also a bit abstract and what one like can also be what someone else hates. Probably a better way of putting that one is that artists should be willing to flexible enough to change and adapt their songs when it comes to working with producers and professionals of the industry.
On the other hand there are some things I would add to the list, one of them being that the musician has to have a clear understanding of the music business and have well defined PLANS and measurable targets that show the band’s uncompromising desire for success. The record label is then an ally of the band in helping them achieve their goals.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:37 am
I would add a willingness and proclivity towards creating all the time. Not just writing new music, although that is clearly a major part of it, but to be focussed upon evolving continually. This process not only keeps things fresh and interesting for the artist and those around them, but also importantly for the fans too.
April 25th, 2008 at 6:38 am
And this list is exactly why I’ve let my label stagnate and am focusing on production and songwriting instead.
Investing your own time and money in someone else’s dream is not a great business plan. I wish I’d read your post about 5 years ago!
April 25th, 2008 at 6:52 am
All of the above are valid points, but susceptible to certain criticsms:
1. The creative issues are a matter of personal taste, aren’t they? How can you tell when a vocal performance is “head-turning/striking” and when it’s just over-the-top and annoying? Same goes for everything - there is no clear-cut formula, except “I love/hate/don’t care about it.” Being an artist myself, I’ve a long time ago decided that the stuff I write and do has to please me. If it does, there’s always going to be a group of people who will like it as well. (Plus a group that will hate it, of course.
)
2. A surprising number of mega-huge, long-time artists have at least had spells of a bad working attitude, so here’s something to consider: with the bad comes the good. The destructive habits of rock stars make working with them a pain, but go down real well with the music-buying public. For many people, a rock star provides a safe outlet for all the stuff they’d like to do, but would never dare. That’s why artist biographies sell so well - especially those with a lot of naughty bits. Sunday-school choir boys don’t sell at all well though, so it’s really a case of controlling the chaos the best you can, non?
What I think the most important though are the points about having done it for years and still working at it, plus the ability to work to a budget and less-than-perfect conditions. Too many musicians today are thrown in the big time too early and never really learn to go it on their own. As a result, without large amounts of money pumped in, they’re helpless. There are others, who - having had big investments made in them - decide that this isn’t really what they want in life (Joss Stone comes to mind here).
Reading the list, I know I would not be signed to your company, for at least one reason (it comes in paper and has a filter attached
), possibly more. On the other hand, I’m not sure if I’d want to, given as part of my band’s appeal comes from breaking the rules (though in a controlled way).
It’s a good post, all the same. Quite a few young bands I know could take good heed of this advice. It’s academic, since you aren’t starting a label, but definitely something to ponder on.
April 25th, 2008 at 7:20 am
Ah, but Derek, I think you’re getting caught up in the nitty gritty details of what successful acts make themselves to be eventually. I say this with absolutely no disrespect, but you’re sounding a bit like a major label A&R person.
Basically, your criteria indicates that you are only willing to make very conservative choices — pick a proven and already-successful talent. One you can for sure bet on profitability. An act that does all the maturing before they get to you.
Because a label is a business, I fundamentally don’t disagree with you on many of your criteria. But I think you may be able to whittle down that list to its essence, in return allowing yourself to be open to find talents that may not be as realized as your list, but give you every reason to believe that they will be soon.
I think it boils down to two qualities: passion and aptitude.
“artist has done this for a few years and still believes that this is their real calling in life, regardless of external rewards (or total lack of)”
This is a good indication of their passion/dedication to their art. You do have to see them over some time to ensure that this is a life-long pursuit without exterior motives for worldly rewards. Creating art should be a reward in itself, and the person/people pursuing it should see that and still love it enough to spend their lives doing it.
I once heard a story that of a film director. In order to make his film, he maxed out all credit cards, mortgaged his own house AND his grandmother’s house. The point is that he believed so much in his story that he was willing to risk not just everything he owned but his family, too. (and he did become successful) It’s not something that can be recommended, but it’s an example of what an artist will do when he/she passionately believe in his/her/their art.
The second piece is about their ability to learn and grow:
“every song has been absolutely improved repeatedly - every note/syllable crafted to be the best it can be”
And the same should apply to their performance.
Writing and performing are both skills. Skills can be learned. (especially where there is passion) Sure, you can’t manufacture Freddie Mercury out of every man, but if a singer is both die-hard passionate and has a fertile mind that can absorb and grow rapidly, then he/she is bound find his/her own style, the way to make their singing work with the songs they write and make something compelling.
An act that has both passion and aptitude can and will develop every other qualities needed for success: great material, striking performance, good work ethic, and effective image/presentation.
I suppose I may be talking more about incubation than making an immediately profitable business venture — but just as raising kids can be deeply rewarding experience (but you can’t control them) I think there can be a great partnership between label/management and artists.
All that said, Derek, I think if you see an act that you MUST sign, I think your heart will know first, before your head. They may not have everything on your list. But you’ll be so super excited about them, that the thought of working with them will probably keep you awake at night and make you not taste what you’re eating.
There’s no need to over-analyze.
April 25th, 2008 at 7:20 am
Not even Garth Brooks or Dave Grohl could meet that list.. And Christ was a carpenter so he’s out. Oh and that (in-store appearances) thing.
I agree with Daniel, “Investing your own time and money in someone else’s dream is not a great business plan.”
As a musician I would hope to aspire to this list. If I were a label I don’t think I could sign myself just yet.
April 25th, 2008 at 7:22 am
I believe that there is no verified formula as to why people end up working together or not. At the end of the day, both parties (labels and artists) need to click and be on the same wave length. Music is such a personal and abstract notion that it is mostly left to gut feeling, emotional response and risk taking abilities.
If bands tick all the points you are listing Derek, then it means they are running a successful business and therefore why would they need to be signed to a label ? And yes, there are artists out there who fit your list !
April 25th, 2008 at 7:22 am
Howdy from Times Square NYC Derek,
Greetings from the big apple on one of the first beautiful summery days..starting a Record Label up? These days, sure I’d sign with you!
I started my own label Ham-Berger-Friz Records and it’s doing well but it’s a lot of work to do everything including being the artist/bandleader/composer on the label so I’d be in to relinquishing some points if I had somebody I could trust like Derek Sivers to take care of the label biz. Please keep me in the loop about this, sounds highly-interesting to me!
All the best,
Jon
*Member AFM Local 802, Local 6 / ASCAP Publisher
**Host of daily morning radio show HammondCast on KYOURADIO
April 25th, 2008 at 7:22 am
I agree with you Derek and also agree that it would be rare to find someone who meets all of your criteria.
I think that the artist being the right kind of person should be the very top thing on the list. That’s not to say that the musical aspects you mentioned and arrangements are not very important, but if I had a label I would be very wary of signing anyone without getting to know them fairly well on a personal basis. Investing in drunken/ addict rockstar-types is definitely not smart business!
I sort of agree with Atul about the live performance, but I think it depends on the genre. If I am seeing an instrumental guitarist play I expect a little energy onstage, but maybe not at the level of say a vocal rock band.
On the other hand tough, a great live performance can definitely create record sales. Last summer I saw the band My Chemical Romance on a festival tour. I’m 42 years old and had kind of lumped them in with the numerous other bands in their genre. They put on an incredible live show and their singer was a charismatic frontman on the level of someone like Freddie Mercury. He had the crowd (including me) in the palm of his hand.
I went out the next week and bought two of their CD’s. Feeling the power of that first hand made me realize that when I do another rock vocal band project myself I will not settle for anything less than this type of singer/ frontman.
April 25th, 2008 at 8:02 am
I think this is a good list if I read it as an artist looking to attract investors/distribution/or a label.
From the label perspective, this might be a good checklist for a CEO or president to have. However, I would think it could be balanced by having an A&R who’s a little more visionary and willing to shape and mold. Then if the A&R comes across an act they really believe in, their passion might sell the CEO in spite of the missing criteria.
April 25th, 2008 at 8:36 am
I think in the beginning of Mr. Mojo Risin’s career he probably matched most of the criteria on your list, but the more sucessful he became the more of a fuck up he became too. Kind of like “Eric Von Stroheim, the man you love to hate!” I admire how he challeged authority and “the man.” He certainly always kept things interesting… a pure artist in every sense of the word.
In some ways, CD Baby is a label in it’s own right. I love it and have released three cd’s through CD Baby since 2002 and intend to release many more (BTW, I love your digital distribution set-up). Just like life you get out of it what you put into it. “In the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make!” It’s a D.I.Y. world these days. Peace.
http://www.myspace.com/richsheldon
April 25th, 2008 at 9:13 am
Great, so, then, I’ll be the first artist you sign.
Sweet.
Just let me know when you finally decide to start a label.
You won’t even have to fly me out to the west coast to sign me, FedEx the contract, that’ll be fine.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Another thing to consider is that some bands are ready to go big time NOW, but don’t know how to do all that business stuff. By the time they learn how to do all those things you mention, their time may well be over and you have both lost out.
Some of the greatest things happen when people with different skill sets come about and everyone can just concentrate on what they’re good at.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Wow,
I don’t think I could pull off that list… but I am excited that my new CD was just released yesterday on CD BABY (what I think of as the label I’m signed to).
http://www.cdbaby.com/gypsymusic2
xoxo
One love.
Gypsy
April 25th, 2008 at 10:24 am
The reality is that A&R has changed. Big record labels are not willing to take a chance on artists like they used to. They used to sign someone and give them a record or two to hone their craft, etc, but it’s not so now.
So, if someone doesn’t meet most of the characteristics on Derek’s their odds of getting signed to a major are pretty slim. So the alternative is to educate yourself on the business and release your record as an indie. By selling it through CD Baby and other distributors you will make more money off each record sale and won’t have some advance which needs to be recouped.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:36 am
@ Ronnie… yeah, and you added a nice one, as well :
“If I were a label I don’t think I could sign myself just yet.”
More artists should think like that. It’s too easy to proclaim you’re the Next Big Thing when it’s someone else’s money on the line.
Record Labels as Venture Capital, that’s where my head is at with this issue lately… and these days, as Derek has discussed here previously, artists are able to do a ton on their own, without a traditional record label investing in their dream.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:45 am
If you had a label, I would definitely want to be signed to it!
April 25th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
I guess you would have passed up Bob Dylan and Nirvana…
It seems you missed the number one point when it comes to mass media potential, the one that trumps all of your requirements - the story. I’ll take an artist with a good story and less than perfect, but passionate performances (Janis Joplin, Hendrix, etc) over an anally revisionist craftsman any day.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Another couple of things to add…
Believe in your ability and music so much that you will sacrifice all your worldly goods for it.
Do you have a business plan? Remember this is a business. I’ve personally got 3. One simple (5 pages), one mid-level (17 pages) and one all encompassing (48 pages).
If you’re not willing to do that, then why should someone else?
April 25th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
The music is and will ALWAYS be THE most important thing. If you don’t connect with people through the music…it doesn’t matter.
The great thing about, say, the 70’s was the artists were more able to focus on their end of the bargain, the music. And that’s why the music was better (generally WAY better) in the 60’s and 70’s than it is now.
Now, plenty of artists got screwed business-wise in those times, but plenty didn’t.
I doubt there are very many GREAT artists who are great at all the other stuff. If we were, we wouldn’t care at all about labels.
As it is, with all the DIY stuff that’s been going on, artists still find it sexy (and usually helpful) to be on a label (or at least signed with a brilliant manager).
Managers are the new labels…
April 25th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Working with artists IS a huge pain in the butt. That’s why they are artists.
My criteria?
There is none. If I see the light shining from them, then I’ll give them a shot.
That’s my job - to assist them in all those areas in which they have not developed.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
The only things you’ve left off the list is what personal satisfaction you would receive by investing (your own success criteria). You’ve stated your criteria for those who you would sign, but you mention nothing about what it means to you or your business. Is it money, philanthropy, vanity, innovation, radio airplay, building a brand, getting quoted…? What do your signing criteria supposedly add up to?
I personally think your signing criteria are open to interpretation, but once the success metrics are established, the signing criteria interpretation will be narrowed.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
A quest for perfection is admirable, and shows in the quality of your business. Entrepreneurs and control of business are a common marriage.
Some of what I recommend is found under the website FAQs … things looked for in people I work closely with. Talent, growth factor, ability to take action and marketability are part of it too.
While history shows that creative genius leans outside social norms, the quality of life factor comes to the negotiating table also. If you’re good to work with folks you believe in, who are creatively remarkable, yet are a true destruction to themselves or others, rock on. Free will. All choices have consequences. Sometimes it’s worth it, sometimes not. It apparently worked for Jac.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
You realize, Derek, that if you aren’t practicing these stringent standards in your own life, so to speak, that run the risk of being a hippocrite?
I cringe at your list: reminds me why i probably don’t want to be in the music ‘business’ but can indulge in the ‘art’ of the art to my heart’s desire…
April 25th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Based on this list, a good number of my heroes would slip through the cracks.
That said, I don’t see anything on the list that artists shouldn’t be striving for anyway. I think Ari has it above: most of these are learned skills, or things that an artist can develop by working with peers, a mentor or a hired pro.
April 25th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
I think it’s a fabulous list to strive for, but there probably aren’t many artists that fit all of it.
You’d have to settle for sifting through and prioritizing these, and figuring out which ones are things you could work with the artist to achieve.
But then, I don’t really think Derek is starting a new label.
Nor do I think he posted this to get responses.
I suspect he just wanted to make people think about what it really takes to run a successful label…
Honestly, though, most successful labels I’ve seen start with ONE successful artist, and that artist and/or the people willing to help them end up adding other not-so-successful artists out of the love for their music.
They then balance the expense of maintaining that artist with their revenue, and keep them or drop them.
Or, often as not, the artist just sort of drifts away, finding a new job or even just finding a label that’s a better fit…
April 25th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
I think every indie label signs artists they personally love. So really, at the end of the day, it comes down to being passionate about any artist you sign but they also have to want to become successful and work harder than you, no matter what.
I’ve learned this lesson the hard way - signing acts I loved but ultimately ones that couldn’t go the distance because I wanted them to be successful more than they wanted to be successful. Ah, live and learn.
I think anyone that starts a label these days has to just sign music they love and artists that are working non-stop to promote their music.
That’s the formula for success - everything else is subjective.
Jennifer Yeko
True Talent Management
http://www.truetalentmgmt.com
April 26th, 2008 at 2:14 am
Heh, seems like the lo-fi garage rock I enjoy wouldn’t stand a change.
My points would just be:
- Write/perform catchy songs
- Give live shows people talk about
- rock hard
April 26th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
What is wrong with wanting an artist who has their act together, is not self centered and spoiled, Has a realistic grasp of where the music industry is right now, and is in it for the music?
The fact that some people are pooh poohing this is what I find disconcerting about some of the responses in this thread.
I don’t understand comments like “Derek, you sound like the major labels now”.
Maybe it’s how I interpret Derek’s list, but I see the priorities of his (make believe) label to be about originality, and artistic discipline. I don’t see that as the priorities of the major labels.
What I see coming out of the major labels is cookie cutter generic music/artists that look good, sound good, but whose music is mostly unmemorable.
At the very least, this list makes a very good guideline that I think any artist or band should aspire to.
I would like to think that I am working hard to meet the criteria that that Derek has set in this post.
April 26th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
I am having a major problem with the conversations going on around the internet about these kinds of topics. I don’t give a flying x about what anyone should be aspiring to, I don’t think that ‘everyone’ should start a blog, I don’t think ‘all bands’ should start labels and I don’t think all ‘artists’ should spend their time becoming marketing gurus.
Unless they want another career in promoting other bands, running labels, or getting into PR.
Yes, we all have more skills than we did, but the last thing I want to tell a great songwriter is to read a book by Seth Godin.Otherwise I’d sign Seth Godin as an artist to my label.
Go out and live. Write some songs about it. Report back. I’ll take care of business, and try and keep it real. If you can’t do that, goodbye. I have enough problems trying to do that myself. It’s really xxx hard.
I’m sick of semantics and I’ve only been blogging 4 months. Perhaps it’s not for me.
April 26th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
One other thing I would like to add:
On the opposite side of my last post.
A while back I went to see a friends “new” band play their first gig. Prior to this gig I had only heard their demos. I was not terribly impressed with the demos.
But when I saw them live, I was blown away. There was a chemistry to them and they had that undefinable “it” factor that people always talk about.
I went to a few more of their gigs just to be sure, and each one only re-enforced my opinion about them. I remember telling my friend that if I wasn’t so busy handling my own business as a musician and artist, I would offer to manage them (I was that knocked out by them). I was definitely a fan though.
What finally happened to them?
Nothing.
The Lead guitarist and Lead singer who where the centerpiece of the groups onstage chemistry where always at odds with each other and fought a lot.
The lead singer’s unwillingness to want to protect her voice and unwillingness to greet fans that came to see them also hurt them.
The band’s Rhythm guitarist (my friend) was the level headed one and the peace maker for everyone in the band. He said that it became harder and harder to settle their differences. Add to the fact that the lead guitarist had a history of never finishing anything he started and sure enough he quit first over creative differences.
They tried to go on with a different lead guitarist, but it wasn’t the same. The chemistry, or “it” factor was gone. Eventually they just faded out.
Who knows, had they existed in the 70’s things might have worked out differently for them. Maybe a label would have discovered them, the lead guitarist (not wanting to mess with the meal ticket) would have stayed. Someone at the label would have baby-sat them through what would have probably been some very destructive trials, and through it all maybe they would have created astounding music.
But this is not the 70’s anymore and I don’t think this works anymore.
April 26th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
Can’t say I agree with your list either Derek. I actually agree with Julian Moore’s assessment. I think all of the artists and bands that fulfill all your criteria are boring as hell. Yeah, they’re an industry man’s dream, but I can tell you that band most likely won’t make interesting or lasting music. Sounds like Daughtry might do well on your label.
And I guess, if you’re making money off them, alright. If that’s your goal, great. But then, I have to hear their sorry songs all over the place thanks to you and that isn’t cool.
I’ve recently discovered Guided By Voices’ stuff, and THAT is a band that bucks conventions and makes lasting music. Same with Zappa, Captain Beefheart, They Might Be Giants, Ween, and a little band called The Beatles (although, they admittedly had major label support behind them from the beginning). I could name many many others.
I think the most important thing is to just love the music you make, love making it, don’t rely on managers, labels and producers to do everything/anything for you, and NEVER give up. If you’re any good, you’ll find some success eventually. And this is coming from someone with no real success at all to speak of yet. But I wouldn’t change a thing because I love what I do.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:37 am
Write music for the people. Ever think how big some songs are to you on a personal level and why? Think about those mega huge bands like Led Zepplin etc. Their music is bigger then they are. Look at Hendrix, his music has been around longer then he lived. My goal this year is to write nothing but simple catchy tunes for the people, not me. I’m going to do things different this time around. I’m going to try and write songs that are bigger then me. Perhaps record labels just might want to take them on.
I’ve written songs about me and my life for too long and I don’t think people relate to it. I sat down a few weeks ago and wrote something I would never have written. Emailed the MP3 to several friends that know my normal stuff and all of them told me it was the best I’d ever done to date, I even got a Wow! So it makes me think that I should do some things as expected by the industry (not all of it, just some) for the fact that more people will relate to it. Everybody wants to belong.
I’ve driven around going to and from work actually thinking of all these great bands that I know of that are still unknown and if I had the money to back them up and advertise them, then I started thinking that maybe these bands connect with me but not everybody else, soooo
April 27th, 2008 at 1:39 am
I think, it’s great to be able to be true to your music and to keep the level of integrity that you had the first time you picked up a scrap paper and wrote those lyrics.
As you evolve as an artist/band you need to keep focussed on those elements that first got you all together jamming and rehearsing those rough inspirations that later on developed into your own material.
I also believe that there should be more respect out there for multi-talented individuals (I have been told I am one of those), who not only can be ok at singing, but can write, arrange and produce their own music, play one or two or three instruments to a good degree and have the lateral vision of music as an organic mix. Of course others would always criticize your work, but doesn’t that happen to the most notorious bands in the world? Of course it does. And it happens to painters, soccer players, businessmen etc. JUST KEEP FOCUSSED!
My 2 cents,
Andy
April 27th, 2008 at 1:56 am
Hi Derek good to here from you and the comments being made.I’m just an independent artist with my own label in New Zealand and have come to the conclusion that unless your good lookin and under 35 big labels are not interested in you anyway even if you are very good so i carry on doing the best that i can.We have a big problem with getting air play from radio and im the top country artist in this country it seems like unless i change my gendre and i have nothing against any other that it just wont be played.So keep up the good work selling my cds and maybe one day someone big will listen to them and maybe take me on a tour.
April 27th, 2008 at 2:04 am
I find that the greatest atribute a Band can have is, apart from musical ability of course, is the ability to be a democracy, including the withdrawal of idea’s the individual realy believes in, on a democratic basis, if you have a Band that cant do this without serious row’s, storming off, or even violence, then it has some chance of surviving.
April 27th, 2008 at 2:07 am
The previuos comment should say can, instead of can’t !!
April 27th, 2008 at 2:50 am
C’mon Derek! I absolutely applad what you’ve done with CD Baby but a record company based upon these principles would the elitist, dull, conservative and about as rock ‘n’ roll as James Blunt…
Like they say, it’s like punk never happened.
April 27th, 2008 at 3:50 am
Whoops - typo alert! Would you mind making it read “applaud”?
Thanks!
April 27th, 2008 at 4:07 am
When the Beatles went to play in the US for the first time, an interviewer asked John Lennon if they were going to do the same act as they had been doing in England. Lennon answered: “We don’t have an act, we just do what we do.”
What about adding this to the ’show’ and ‘perfect band’…
April 27th, 2008 at 4:40 am
As usual, the list you create leaves out the music that I have been creating and performing since 1982. My original jazz group Cat’s A Bear has been in existence for 26 years, so I guess we pass the longevity test. We have kept the group together during times when we have no gigs, and times when we are all busy with everything else. You will NOT find a more dedicated group of musicians.
However, the “vocal performance” is not a part of our sound (which immediately puts us off of any real serious label interest in these days and times), and the “arrangements” are often the result of true jazz musicians playing spontaneously.
We have created a strong following over many years despite being at the edge of everyone’s expectations of music by promoting ourselves, creating kick-ass live shows, and producing our own music since no-one else will.
Derek offered the first real help with CD Baby, so that we could get our product over to the world.
However, jazz is now less than 2 percent of the world market share - which means that labels don’t give a crap about it.
Thus - once again we would be out of the picture if we did not do it ourselves, and because of the music that we play, we can never make your list.
Of course, we choose it ourselves, so we get what we get. However, the world is deprived of a lot of alternative music because the profit margin is not “Jamiacan vacation ready”. If you want dedicated, non-greedy, professional musicians who create something truly unique, Cat’s A Bear is your band. If you want lots of profits from record sales in a superfical market, then you will obviously look elsewhere.
Peace out to all musicians, and a special nod to those performing instrumental jazz, the poor child in the room.
peace - f
April 27th, 2008 at 4:42 am
What if I say that all the criteria you stated apply to me? However, this would not solve the problem if you couldn’t sell my music.
April 27th, 2008 at 4:53 am
WHAT I WOULd ADD IS ME A GOSpel RAPER, INDustry HERO MINistry MATerial . MUSic IS CHANGIng BACK TO ITS CORE WHIch IS GOD WHO IS LOVE , HELp , A GUIde , AND PATIents GO TO MYSPace. COM/ COGTHATHRILLR. WHEn YOU SUPport GOOd YOU SHAll HAVE GOOD SUPport YOU.
April 27th, 2008 at 5:20 am
Being visually arresting with a defined, unique recgnisable style - music is primarily promoted through visual mediums these days
April 27th, 2008 at 6:20 am
Nice one Derek, for all of it - the spiritual and the musical, the ideas and the empowerment. Please don’t fall out of the sky, unless you feel you must..
I agree with most of what people have written here, even some of the opposing views, and especially Julian Moore at the top of this thread re. your ‘label’ - which I also agree you already have in CD Baby… and it’s criteria for acceptance are the total opposite of what you have proposed ! Which means I, who fulfill very few of the ‘requirements’ you mooted, though aspiring to many of them, can be a part of it. For which, thank you.
At the risk of being impertinent, do you yourself have no addictions ? if so I am envious, and perhaps sorry for you, in equal measure ..
For my own part, I think Muse is all that matters.
I meant this to be a really short post, sorry..
Good luck y’all.
Mike
April 27th, 2008 at 6:21 am
If an artist possessed all the qualities mentioned by Derek and all the other folks on this list, why would they NEED a record label? What would a record label truly offer them? I think it would be more profitable for an artist to ask themselves what qualities a record label needs to possess before they would even talk to them, and what they really expect to get out of that partnership. If an artist can’t answer that, they should stay away.
I’m not convinced that signing to a record label is the holy grail that most people ought to be seeking after. People who are record-label material (who meet many of the requirements mentioned above) tend to get approached by labels, not the other way around. And again, when that happens, the artist should ask themselves “what are YOU going to do for me?”
Thanks, all!
April 27th, 2008 at 6:22 am
And here I thought CD Baby WAS MY Label….
cdbaby.com/calanbyrd\
April 27th, 2008 at 6:35 am
If you start a Record Label I think that I will join your artist catalogue becaue on all this time knowing CD Baby, I know you all are honest and great people on this bussiness.
April 27th, 2008 at 6:46 am
Hi Derek,
Many years ago my grandfather had a trucking business collecting those old milk cans. He had about 4 trucks and employed all his sons. One day he saw a new stainless steel milk truck go by him on the highway. He immediately knew he was seeing the future of milk collecting and that his future was going to face great upheaval. That’s what has happened to the music business as you well know. Great upheaval and confusion. The majors are looking at that new milk truck equivalent and nervously pondering their future in the music business. Many musicians are basically lost. With the entire music industry in some sort of dark matter transition there is little direction for most. It’s kind of like the Titanic disaster when it was every man for himself.
It’s basically a mess Derek! However…on the bright side, I see you as a glimmer of hope. You have vision. You have stamina and a genuine love for music! The music industry needs new leadership. People who have honesty and integrity like you, a proven track record of success. Someone who has the guts to make a difference. A word of caution though…it wouldn’t be easy and it would be an ocean fraught with dangers. The timid need not apply!
April 27th, 2008 at 7:07 am
Well, a “label” presupposes one entity owning the interests of another. In the digital age more and more artists are becoming free agents. They control their own fate. They are free to fail or succeed by their own wits and talents. So while there are more mediocre bands and artists out there than ever before, each has a historically unprecedented opportunity to be heard. Labels are anachronistic, and there no longer is any reason to subjugate oneself to them. All it takes is courage, perseverance, luck and a bit of talent.
April 27th, 2008 at 7:08 am
Ok, go find those guys, but leave room for the non-all-inclusive act as well, e.g. In my own mind and with luck a few others I write very good lyrics, pretty good music and play barely adequate guitar. I’m 55 and I ain’t gonna sound like Keb’ Mo’, Carlos Santana or Eric Clapton in the forseeable future. I’m also not getting prettier. There are reasons I can’t tour and even live gigs present obstacles. So do I land in the dumpster with all the dopers, drama queens, slackers and whatnot? The industry is changing as we’re all reminded by the minute by the press and “insiders.” Moreover no one seems to truly have a handle on where it’s going to end up. Given that, shouldn’t we make sure that all the bases are covered? Have the lead acts signed up, but have the support acts there too–the guy that just writes the songs, the band that just performs, the lone vocalist, etc, etc. What do you think? Is there room for specialists in your company?
JPW
April 27th, 2008 at 7:14 am
When you use a formula to pick “the next big thing” don’t be surprised if all you get is “paint by numbers artist”!
Labels make safe picks, which means safe music, we’ve lost the soul and passion of real artist…Being a “Baby Boomer”, I’m part of the largest music buying consumer group,and the most over looked consumer… the “Teen Music” catagory was created by my generation! Because of “Idol” mentality we are told ALL artist must be under 25, be attractive, sing tenor…ect…, So long Bob Dylan, so long Joe Crocker, so Long Mama Cass, so long Johnny Cash,Willie Nelson,Brian Wilson,The Clash,Tom Waits…and just about every real artist you can name!
I don’t think the state of the music industry is based on “poor economy”…I think it’s based on poor selection of non formula artist! The “Baby Boomer” has 3 primary choices in buying music in a store these days…#1. Country music that’s been given a pop make over (Which is where a lot of us have resisted but turned), #2.Teen/dance/hip-hop/club (Want to feel creepy, be 40 and buy the latest Britney or Lil’ Wayne CD!) or #3. Oldies (including reunions of Older artist) which we are starved for, just look at the sales of the latest Eagles CD, Any Beatles collection,Elvis’ #1’s, the Beach Boys “Sounds of Summer” collection(-triple paltnium) or the last Fleetwood Mac reunion…the problem is the labels never looked or promoted any one to “fill the shoes” of these artist in the late 70’s….and after disco and the joke that is metal (Spinal Tap killed every serious thought of metal music since it’s release)…..The biggest feed back I get from people at our shows is “Why don’t the Record Companies put out this kind of music?…Music that I can listen too!” (People between 30 and 50).
I have to disagree with two things Jody Whiteside listed…(#1)about being “beyond good on their main instrument” , it has been my experience that really great instrument players are weaker in other areas, such as songwriting….they spend so much time learning new riffs or they fall short on other parts of making an overall sound…Bob Dylan could hardly play 3 chords when he recorded his first songs…heart should always come first!
and (#8) “be so compelling that other songwriters will want to work with you”….Let’s face it, if your at that point, Labels are knocking at your door! I’ve had the chance to work with and perform with a few “name” players, and picked up some advice from a few…which I’ll add on here…
(1). “You play well enough and sing well enough, don’t wait for someone else to record your songs, do it youself…because until you do it, no one else will!”…John Thomas Griffin of “Cowboy Mouth” told me this after jammin’ with me on one of my songs, which lead to me recording my first demo.
(2). “Don’t play music because you want a hit or a record deal…play music because you love music and want to make a living at it! If you can make a living playing music, than isn’t that the real dream?…You can have a hit and a year later be back looking for a job….if you work at making music your job,than you get the dream, with or with out the hit or the label!”…..Told to me by my good friend Jim Ford (manager/agent) who has worked with “The dB’s,REM,Peter Holsapple, Richard Hell and a ton of other groups”.
Following that advice has gotten me this far….if I never get a hit or a record deal, I’m making “My Music”….and living out my musicial dreams, recording a tribute I wrote for Beach Boys drummer Dennis Wilson, I was invited to the 2005 “historic landmark dedication” of the band, and a VIP guest of the family…my latest CD (self produced and distributed) includes a guest performance with original Beach Boy David Marks, and two members of the 60’s group “The Rip Chords”….as well as getting to play my songs live with a great group of friends (my Band)!
I hope you all find the song that brings you home!
April 27th, 2008 at 7:20 am
Jim Morrison. Precisely. One icon substantially undermines your template, Derek. Alas genius and self-destruction are often two sides of the same platinum record. The mere act of fishing with a template guarantees that you’ll capture all the folks trying diligently to fit the prevailing template, which is to say the consummately un-original which is to say, the Last Big Thing. Tomorrow’s genius lives outside the template of corporate ‘imagination’ although he will no doubt serve as the Poster Boy for the Next Big Template. We will suffer all his wannabes soon enough.
The only template to apply is the broken template. Nothing worth having is reducible to its constituent parts or ingredients.
norm ball
April 27th, 2008 at 7:31 am
Dear Derek:
You would not sign me to your record label, and I wouldn’s blame you one bit. A record label would be looking for artists who wand fame so bad that they will go anywhere and everywhere, do anything, and stick to that specific goal no matter what. There are some musicians, however, who would become very despondent if they became famous and rich doing something they truly hate, or something that is more related to Show Business than it is to Music. I’m speaking of music in strictly its aesthetic sense — the drama that its notes, melodies, harmonies and rhythms create when people listen to it ; people who care absolutely nothing about “show,” dress, looks, stage antics, lighting, image, etc.
There are musicians who are satisfied to make a decent living that enables them to marry, have children, buy a house, send their children to college, and store some funds away for their old age. This can be done, and such musicians can and do lead a very charmed and happy life — putting family first, and using music and career as a way to enhance their family.
“Success” is not about money or fame. One is successful when one has succeeded in accomplishing one’s intended goal. To become famous at something that one does not like, is not success, no matter how much fame or fortune one acquires from it. As a matter of fact, such empty success may even be what was behind some “artists” attempts at suicide, or drug abuse.
RCA used to lose money on its Classical music albums. They would use a portion of the revenues they derived from Pop music to fund their Classical music. They did this because it made them feel good, I was told. Not all record label owners have the same goals; some want to make a much money as possible, and others want to simply do very well — and do something edifying, beautiful, beneficial.
There are so many jokes about Jazz musicians, all of which center around their lack of money. Jazz musicians are not failed Rock musicians. They love Jazz, and are happy to appeal to its relatively smaller (and more discriminating )audience. Why? Because the Jazz audience is largely made up of people who understand its aesthetic, and could care less about the players’ “stage act.”
The only thing that I might add is that those who choose to appeal to a relatively smaller market, such as Jazz players do, ought not to complain about the meagre funds that they derive. Actually, I have never heard them complain about money. Mostly, they are disappointed in the fact that more people do not understand, or care to learn, about the beauty of Jazz. But God sometimes gives only one gift to some individuals. Playing real music, such as Jazz and Classical music, is already an enormous gift.
April 27th, 2008 at 7:35 am
Always write music for your biggest fan and critic - yourself. If you can listen to your own stuff literally hundreds of times without getting sick of it, you’re a success, others with an affinity for what you’re interested in will follow, especially with the growth of the Internet. If you’re in it for the money, and hoping to be chased down by the big labels, you should probably rethink things. Besides, with digital distribution taking the torch from traditional channels, who really needs a big label with all of the associated baggage?
April 27th, 2008 at 7:41 am
In a way, it’s like if you have your own label you want the people on it to live up to your own standards , which is hard because very rarely to you find someone that does. This is where you must decide if you want to do it for yourself or for other people.
April 27th, 2008 at 7:46 am
I’m so happy you’ve finally decided to sign me, Derek!
I’m everything you’ve described AND more!
April 27th, 2008 at 7:48 am
You’re really make’em think, buddy. As a former Nashville pavement-pounder of the early 1980s [Thank God I was a quick Learner] turned Independent label owner, I understand exactly where you’re coming from.
April 27th, 2008 at 7:50 am
I think the list is great.
The one issue I could see is this one:
“vocal performance is not just perfect but head-turning, striking”
That is perfect if the band/artists uses vocals.
However, many artists create music without any vocals, or at least without “lead vocals”.
Naturally, I think I meet all of the requirements…I like to think I sound great, look great, perform great when given the opportunity,and I have worked very hard for many years with no plans of giving up, etc…All which you list above, except that a lot of my music has no vocals or only “background” choral-type vocals.
Take the entire Ambient genre for example, perhaps only a handful of the artists use any vocals at all, and even less have anything which could be called a “lead vocal”.
Neoclassical is another genre where vocals are very rare.
Some acts even have full bands which rarely use vocals such as the psychedelic jazz/rock band Tortoise.
April 27th, 2008 at 7:51 am
just kind of scanning through some of the response (S) and looking at the guidelines for determining who to sign, I cant think of any people that I consider great artists even have one of those qualities hahaha, eccentric unstable, self destructive, unpredictable, overly emotional, prone to drama, sometimes refuse to practice their respective instruments, showing up for photos looking like something the dogs drug up to the house. maybe the eccentric flavor is what draws us to the great artists. The best music I have listened to was improvised, raw and gritty the kind of music that flows from the heart and soul and just is, you cant explain why. Rare have been the times I have heard music like that, and usually some smokey bar somewhere in the absolute middle of nowhere on open mike night. Go figure,,, maybe music just can not be tamed and canned and made perfect and somewhere in that inperfectness is where real music and talent lives wild, free and untameable.
April 27th, 2008 at 7:53 am
Hi Derek,
While in the process of applying for a doctoral degree, I took a break and checked my email to discover “If I had a record label, would you be signed to it?” Immediately, Steven Covey’s The 8th Habit came to mind . . . . Consequently, I also read through your other bits of information/knowledge - definitions of “control” and discovered that you cited Covey’s 7 Highly Effective Habits - you’re a smart man that is always moving forward despite fears, anxiety - The 8th Habit addresses the importance of value-value driven leadership. The 8th Habit is to “Find Your Voice and Inspire Others to Find Theirs.” You are doing that!
Back to the “To confidently invest in an artist, I’d want to see “. . . . you only have to look in your back yard at the veteran jazz artists that have spent a lifetime honing their craft, living, breathing, telling their life stories through the jazz medium without the use of props, big sound systems - jazz in its purest form . . . . I know and have played with many of these artists that have gone unrecognized, as a matter of fact; I’m currently working with a video producer that wants to tell the story of the many jazz musicians that have had to carve out a living, establishing themselves in other careers in order to sustain their real passion - the love of playing jazz music. At 50 years old and after 40 years of playing drums, I decided that no one was going to recruit me and take me on the road to success, so, I produced a Christmas jazz album that speaks for itself. The process of producing this album taught me some of life’s greatest lessons: the importance of modeling trusworthiness and integrity, first seeking to understand by really listening to people, then communicating in a way so as to be understood. The Greeks had 3 words for this: Ethos, Pathos, and Logos.
April 27th, 2008 at 8:12 am
Didn’t read all of these but I whole-heartedly agree w/ Julian Moore’s post. Right on.
“band members don’t need unreasonable amounts of money to perform (can perform profitably) ”
I am unclear as to what the point is. Value is determined by what people are willing to pay. The music industry is no longer just “feast or famine” but has evolved to also include everything in between. I think artists should seek what is equitable.
April 27th, 2008 at 8:15 am
I would like signing to your label!!!!
April 27th, 2008 at 8:17 am
I’m from the “Old School” …..back in the 60’s and 70’s……my era…….there was an explosion of music , from heavy psycodelic(sp) , Frigid Pink, to soft rock, Seals and Croft. All the music had one thing in common…..IT WAS ALL ORIGINAL. Every group had it’s own distinct sound and image, immediatally identified by the fans. One more thing they all had in common…….substances that altered their normal thinking patterns. In my opinion…….to be creative, you have to extend yourself beyond your normal , everyday thinking patterns. Be it meditation, alcohol, or a banned substance. The sacrafice for the art has been exampled throughout history. Motzart, Poe, Van Gough, ……Hendrix, Morrison, Bon Scott…..and on and on…..
To be great, means doing things the “normal” person would never do. Including going to that place where you are your most ” creative “
April 27th, 2008 at 8:24 am
I’m afraid that as a song-writer, performer I’d not get on any (label’s) ‘agency’s list. This is why.
The musicians on stage with me are more important to me than the audience is.
It’s more important to me that the musicians on stage with me are ‘into’ my tunes and progressions/grooves and lyrics, than the audience is.
If the Band is having a good experience through the material they’re playing the audience will ‘get-that’ and enjoy the stuff and themselves too.
The guy’s I hire to perform with are all fine musicians so if they like the stuff that’s all the approval I need.
I record my material not because I ever expect (Or want) to become a star or famous. I record my material because I’d hate myself if I didn’t. …’cause I believe the tunes are good and until they’re recorded they don’t exist. Signed, Capital B
April 27th, 2008 at 8:24 am
I sort of agree with most of this list — *except* for the very first two items, which I rather strongly disagree with:
(1) every song has been absolutely improved repeatedly - every note/syllable crafted to be the best it can be
(2) vocal performance is not just perfect but head-turning, striking
arrangement is everything it can be to bring out song/vocal
The importance of that stuff is (I think) genre-based, and in the music I pursue, and that has changed my life, it’s relatively unimportant. Far more important to me is the energy and fusion of the overall band’s performance. Wasting time microscopically tweaking and individual part’s notes/syllables distracts from that overall goal.
In the music I like and mix, I intentionally junk-up the vocals. I push the vocals down in the mix so all the other instruments can come through at least as prominently. My music has to avoid a “tyranny of the vocals”, because all the instruments need to have a voice.
I know bands who follow item (1) to a “t”, reworking/remixing their songs over and over, laboring over every note and syllable — and because of that they never play live (item 6, right?), they never write new songs, they never grow their fan base. I’ve heard an anecdote about one Jimi Hendrix song (forget which one) where the initial demo was incredible, but the “real” recording with a whole band tried and tried and tried to recapture the energy & sound and never could — so they just released the initial demo anyway. So you’ve got to know when you’ve caught something energetic and passionate and special, far more than reworking stuff over and over.
Also, if you need a “perfect” performance (item 2), you’re going to be permanently frustrated and unhappy with all the funky, wierd, unique, not great sound systems you’ll be playing at from week to week. I know so many bands who pursue that and are keenly unhappy ever time they get offstage anywhere, and as a fan it’s an enormous drag to experience that.
So I actually think that items (1)-(2) are actually detrimental to growing an indie rock band, learning your stagecraft, playing out, sharing your positive energy, and connecting with fans. Maybe if you’re purely a recording-only business then that’s a different story. But as an artist my own primary goal is to connect with people through a live performance.
April 27th, 2008 at 8:25 am
Hm… reading the above thoughts, Derek, mixed emotions and states of mind tried the texture of my already hurt self in this savage and oversaturated business, lol… My own experiences - through constant rejections and ignorance, has tought me that every musician/songwriter should learn as much about this trade just as much he or she would like to gain control over his/her talent and estate. GO INDEPENDENT!!! Learn the business and use all the new tools which are out there for us regarding production/promotion/marketing/sales…
Beside that I also have a constantly growing market in Romania. Playing about 70-80 gigs/year and selling around 4000 units of each title it gives us a pretty business figure around the year. If you ar interested and have the ludicious thrill to help me in developing a basically virgin market, you are welcome to join me. We have a lot of talented youngsters with no business mean whatsoever. They need directions and lucrative models 
Believe me, it works!
Derek, if you are serious about the list above I might have what you are looking for
Join me!
Best thoughts,
AG Weinberger - The Transylvanian Guitar Man
April 27th, 2008 at 8:28 am
I tend to agree with Daniel in that the main question that Derek’s article should bring to the forefront is “What IS a record label?” With more and more responsibility potentially in the hands of musicians, there are two major market actions that will/are happening: 1. traditional corporate labels will shrink, conglomerate, and eventualy fall by the wayside; making the way for indepenent beneficiaries to subsidize performers on a much smaller scale. Think of the d’Medici’s of Florence (look it up). 2. As most musicians (keep in mind that I am speaking as one) are fairly irresponsible when it comes to balancing anything from checkbooks to their everyday diet, the glut of superfluously mediocre performers will plummet as the corporate focus on single-fed sales makes way for more album-based art, which again takes a more responsible performer to pull off. And yes, I realize that Guns N Roses’s “Appetite for Destruction” is a great album made by a perpetually drunk/high/mentally unstable group of degenerates (at the time); there is always room for anomalies.
All of this makes it an exciting and scary time in the industry (depending on what side you are on). And although I realize that the downfall of the industry labels into a more grass-roots based art movement will mean much lower returns for musicians, I believe that the integrity of the artform will become vibrantly reenergized.
April 27th, 2008 at 8:28 am
One more site I’d like to mention………. cdbaby.com/cd/vinylrhino……..our originals.
April 27th, 2008 at 8:28 am
I have no band, I’m alone… therefore there is no place for me in your label…
But I have a couple of ideas - you should be looking for not just new arrangement but for completely new sounds, new instruments and new images.
Also if you completely rely on band/composer as a person (you mentioned a lot of behavioral things then you should have more acceptance of their musical experiments. I mean for example I love to work with partner and friend but I don’t need anybody to tell me what must I do.
April 27th, 2008 at 8:30 am
Amen and a little bit more: For some of us, making music is an avocation, not a calling. We may know we are too old and fat to ever become big stars, but we are delighted to have a good crowd at our local coffeehouse, and we love it when someone tells us, “Your song changed my life,” or “My kids won’t quit playing your CD.” We may actually believe that it’s all right to perform once a month and sing in the kitchen the rest of the time. We make music because music moves us and creating heals us, not because we expect to make money from it. For those of us in this category, CD Baby is a wonderful, wonderful service, one that allows us to make our songs available to anyone without demanding a huge investment, and allows us to travel without carrying a box of CDs in the trunk. Whatever you do, Derek, please don’t abandon us part-timers.
April 27th, 2008 at 11:19 am
I think its a good idea! Nothing should stop a man from going as far as he can go! Ofcourse, industry sounding music has completely run the business into the ground, but that makes the real music, or not so perfect sounding music stand out. Honestly, my music has been with cdbaby since it was created, and I will admit to my music not being as perfect as it could be, but as perfect as it could get for me at the time.
But as the months grow older, so does my talent, and people in positions like Derek Sivers, and etc. will open the door for someone in my position.
Maybe I wouldn’t be considered for the label, because of quality, or lack of knowledge, but maybe I will be selected for style, or potential. Either way, Ill never stop trying to go as far as I could go!
April 27th, 2008 at 11:25 am
If an artist had all of the qualities you desire, they would have nothing to write about.
April 27th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Hi Derek, there’s no mention of age in your list and I think that plays a huge part in whether a record company might consider you a good investment. Young unpolished carefree diamonds that can be unleashed, let off the lead with some industry dollars and connections tend to shine through. It’s worth a punt even though many are self destructive. The music may be awful but a good write up in a music rag like NME ands a scandal or two will go along way to insuring a good return on some studio time, a plugger and some advertising.
I’m looking for some investors to get Tenderhooks really powering so feel free to tour our website and read some album reviews. I’m scandal free at the moment!
April 27th, 2008 at 11:27 am
i guess i’d make it…
April 27th, 2008 at 11:38 am
How about Jazz?
I think that many jazz musicians (including myself) fit Derek’s bill, with the exception of vocals.
How can we apply this concept to jazz, when pretty much every record label drop their jazz artist and booking agents are reluctant to take even cutting edge emerging jazz bands?
April 27th, 2008 at 11:39 am
If I was a younger person with a real future in music I would certainly choose Julian’s label over Derek’s. Julian’s first comment is wise and informed, and ultimately his strategy would also result in finding the more creative and profitable acts. Derek’s real brilliance is in the area of digital distribution, and I think we all appreciate his contribution there. That does not mean he would be equally good at artist management, development, or good at predicting which artists might do well in the ever-changing market. Team effort is the thing in music as in film, and putting together a good team is absolutely required. Not everyone involved even needs to have the same level of commitment, though it makes things easier. Sure, at least some folks on the team have to be absolutely detail oriented and anal compulsive, others great at social networking and so forth, but most of the time there is at least one brilliant, mercurial, and flawed person (aka Morrison) who makes the whole thing possible.
April 27th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Great articles Derek and some great thoughts here!
If I had a record label, I would only search for authentic artists.
I understand some comments of other people here but in some way I
disagree with terms about playing skills, vocal performances, great photos.. all of that can be worked out..
Authentic energy and strenght is what real artists have, even if it’s in traces, not completely developed - it could be and it should be developed..
And if I had a record label I would search for those kind of artists and try to keep them focused on developing their music and keep them diligent.
Everything else is business…
The Doors had a great chemistry live and they were authentic.. Jac Holzman surely did the right thing.
Take another examples : Bob Dylan, Neil Young.. etc..
Thanks for your articles, keep them coming!
Have a nice week!
April 27th, 2008 at 11:41 am
I think that all creative success depends on what your idea of success is. I believe that success takes a lifetime. If it stops then we have not begun
to achieve the utmost of our lives. I personally have been studying the
ways of achievement of my gifts or talents and each day I am communicated new ideas or ways of advancing them. I know that if we keep trudging and receiving knowledge, and promote by sharing the knowledge with others, we’ll land right at the point we’re suppose to. I can’t say that man’s way of promoting always is fair, however we are filled with the abilities to choose fairness. I believe each musician or artist has a
individual way of choosing success and the way to achieve it. It’s like a
metamorphosis, taking creativeness to different levels. On each level we
as artists share the experience, in our own individual way. Money is only a
temporary motivator, however it can transition us further, if we use it for that purpose. Is it cars, jewelry, clothing, or is it mansions etc… that propel us in peace to exhibit sucess or is it divine creation (God)? I am going to continue to acquire whatever it takes to share creativity, because I love what I do? No matter what position I’m in.
April 27th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Great articles Derek and some great thoughts here!
If I had a record label, I would only search for authentic artists.
I understand some comments of other people here but in some way I
disagree with terms about playing skills, vocal performances, great photos.. all of that can be worked out..
Authentic energy and strength is what real artists have, even if it’s in traces, not completely developed - it could be and it should be developed..
And if I had a record label I would search for those kind of artists and try to keep them focused on developing their music and keep them diligent.
Everything else is business…
The Doors had a great chemistry live and they were authentic.. Jac Holzman surely did the right thing.
Take another examples : Bob Dylan, Neil Young.. etc..
Thanks for your articles, keep them coming!
Have a nice week!
April 27th, 2008 at 11:52 am
sounds exactly like me.
no, but really, i like what you say about it needing to be someone who works tirelessly, and loves it… like ANYTHING, its the recipe for success. I have to admit, I get down and I would rather be off with a backpack in India or learning flamenco dance… but the music is a bug, it bites you… if we can only maintain our faith that its all worthwhile, its just a satisfying, joyful thing to sink your teeth into. until your 50 and have no house or family, eh
April 27th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Hello Derek,
You are a contradiction to your label requirements…in CD Baby you have offered up the venue for all of those that are independently minded and have chose to pursue music on a level that best fits their lifestyle, artistic and professional capabilities. That is the beauty of your format at CD Baby. In your vision of label, few will fulfill the requirements of your formula, which even if they were fulfilled, certainly will not guarantee the success of the art it self (successful art? A subjective reality…certainly in the artist’s mind as they continue to search, or the audience in seeking a connection) I would assume your label is also seeking primary market success, because most labels in the end only survive if they are selling large quantities of material, and that is done through market interpretation, saturation and at times manipulation (wow, what happened to the art?).
I viewed a decent Frank Zappa interview on you-tube not long ago. Zappa said that the industry really went down hill sometime in the 70’s, when many labels employed an academic version of cultural “hip” in their “scouting”… trying to pigeon hole what direction the youth movement would , or should go in, or in other words what the “long hair marketers” deemed as the hip art and culture of the day. Zappa simply stated that the industry was much better off when cigar chomping executives, that had little knowledge or understanding of the youth culture, would just pick up new talents and give them a shot (most exec’s of the day were not savvy as say, a Sam Phillips, or Ahmet Ertegun…to say the least) But this is all about history, which will re-invent it’s self another time, and place, and you are more then likely aware of much of this and other random thoughts on the subject. As a label I guess your formula would be boring in my view, but with CD Baby, you have been mixed into the on going linage of the industry, and I have to say from a very positive point of origin as far as I can see. I have discovered several excellent artists and many great tunes and CD’s with CD Baby, and suspect there are hundreds more for the choosing.
Art is not necessarily a profession, but it is always an expression, first & foremost, and it is not just borne of planning, hard work, diligence, and or suffrage…sometimes it just happens. I will say though, that if and when it does become too “comfortable” it’s inner gestalt will morph on it’s own, that is why progressive human nature continues to seek it out, it is constant change, anyone and everyone’s story…but, if it ain’t organic, it ain’t very real.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
I dont think such list are necessary. There are so many people who have the image, potential, and skills to shine, but cant reach out the right people. They have to be given the opportunity, by outshining other artist with their stunning music. Take me for example, i record and perform hiphop/rap music. But i know for a fact my music has never been heard of… Where im from ( coatesville, PA , currently deployed to IRAQ ) people have a different stlye then what i usually rap about so by being creative, a lot more people clung to me verses them because i was different and sounded good while doing it. Based on that list, if you made a record deal, i would not sign to it.. With fame and fortune comes more responsibility and less desire to care about rules.. its sort of like a power complex thing. But yes this is interesting, check my music out and sign me though.. i love you.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Hi Derek,
all of your points are right and for sure helpfull . . . but all secondary!!
What really and only counts is : does the music reach the soul and feeling of the listener. If that’s the case…then you might look at your list and check what else is there. Your list is basicly a collection of facts to make your, as a recordcompany, and the musicians life easier. And yes, in an ideal situation every point you came up with should be there , but in real life it isn’t if you deal with really talented and gifted musicians. Somebody who can create masterpieces in music cannot think in rational ways in most cases. The most famous examples are Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Janis Joblin, (and yes) Curt Cobain aso aso.. It would be your job and the managers job to create the right environment for those people to lead them to success.
And I think THAT’s the hardest job in the world ( see Jimi Hendrix who was pushed too much). This job can put you in many conflicts with yourself constantly and that’s why you probably don’t want to form a rec.-company.
If you follow only your points you might have bands with some success but never the real deal. That would be way too easy.
But in our fast times we’re already happy if somebody matches your points and again they’re not wrong.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
You know anything I could say has been said already. LOL
I think your ideas have good points but aren’t realistic. I know I sure won’t be able to sign to you. I mean I do what I can with what I have, which is not a lot.
A label should help the artist become better not expect the ultimate best from them day one.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
I completely agree with you. Alot of labels sign bands that have no history, no experience and no musical depth.
LoNero is a completely self-sustaining band. We’ve toured, recorded and promoted grass-roots style for the last four years. We have a strong fan base that helps us promote. Our relationship with our fans is very important to us.
We’ve created our own genre of music that is growing legs (Guitarcore) and the fans love it. People are starving for something new because they are sick and tired of the same crap on the radio day after day.
We’ve had Apple Computers/Quicktime promote our last cd and were a featured band on iTunes. We did all this without label support or a manager. One thing alot of bands don’t realize is that a label is nothing more then a big bank account with very very high interest rates who just happen to have a promotions department.
All bands need to be self-sufficient because you can’t count on a label picking you up. We do everything in house because we know it will get done that way. Everything from cd design, web design, promotions, recording…etc.
We don’t give a shit about a label as much as we care about what the fans say. That to us is the most important thing. We’ve even got a fan petition that one of our fans started to try to get us signed. With almost 1,000 signatures in less then a few months it speaks volumes. That to us is more important then some suit and tie at a record company trying to make this month’s quota!
April 27th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
i suppose my hearty addiction to coca-cola and dark chocolate leaves me out…too bad. sounds like you’ve thought about this more than most label theorists.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
what a label that would be!!! you took the words right out of my mouth.. (cause i would definitely love to have more artist on my own label) except the whole pecfectionistic stuff because i think if we’re too, too, too critical and too too much of a perfectionist, we’ll never finish or get anything done. but i see the level of what you’re talking about so yes, the music has to be stellar!
April 27th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
I’m not sure that the aforementioned criteria is necessarily the recipe for great music.
Personally, I feel an artist’s output and evolution is much more relevant than technical perfection.
If your priority is writing and recording music for the sole purpose expression, chances are, a bid from a good design company doesn’t fit squarely into your budget… .you may have to learn how to use Illustrator and Photoshop in your spare time
April 27th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Sounds boring. Maybe you could take an E out of your name and call it Drek Records.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Take the “OCD” out of overworked music and you may find innocent brilliance… Being able to edit or produce yourself or another musician is a gift like crafting a well-written song, even knowing when not to over wrtie it. But over-thinking and over-rearranging music for the sake of sculpting is arbitrary and self-indulgent.
Bob Marley, Jimi Hendrix, Jeff Tweedy and Bob Dylan all possess beautiful imperfections in their “un-singerly” singing, but their phrasing is beautiful, like a naturally written poem or sonata.
Creating a collective of musicians, bands and performers without having to whore yourself to the mainstream music industry would be wonderful. I think you can do this or at least come close to it without having a bunch of plastic crap in the way of real musical art, but it does take money and connections… ATO, MERGE, LOST HIGHWAY are getting there… And I’m sure there are others.
April 27th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Oh, and yes Derek, I’d be on your label… I’d enjoy making it simple while others made it hard… Yin and Yang. We could do a few gigs together like the old days… Peace, Juano Lippi
April 27th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
wow, really great article! I completely agree with all the criteria you’ve listed except for the one about having the arrangement being all it can be and the one about addicts. like you said, I want there to be improvement in each gig our band plays. however, I also feel as if you can never get the arrangement EXACTLY how you want it, not because of skill, but because there’s always room for improvement. no matter how well I play a solo, I look forward to the next show when I’ll nail it even better, etc.
The addicts one is tough too. Obviously, you want the entire band to be clean. But what if half the band fits all the criteria and the other half doesn’t? It would seem unreasonable to ask the clean members to break away and find new sober bandmates. It also seems harsh that if a musician manages to fit all the criteria EXCEPT he smokes weed to refuse to let the band join the label
All the other points are right on target though and I completely agree!
David
April 27th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Exactly! I should have been more specific to say that the artist strives to make the arrangement be the best it can be. Too many people just assume that the first chords that fell under their fingers are how the arrangement just is - and make no attempts to make it more interesting.
Of course : I just meant the real addicts. The ones that “can’t deal” with life without their constant destructive habit.
April 27th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Oh, it’s not at all! No, I meant if the music was absolutely AMAZING, then I’d want to see many other internal personality things in place before I’d feel comfortable investing my career into someone else’s career long-term.
April 27th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Ben - very well-put! That’s the reason I’m happier doing something that doesn’t judge the music or the musician, but just treats everyone equally, no matter where they’re at in their career.
That’s why I’m not starting a label. I don’t want to have to judge people by my criteria.
April 27th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Don’t limit yourself. Some of my favorite artists were and are drug addicts. Their stage shows suck. But thats the beauty of art. This article sounds very obsessive-compulsive to me. If you want a good stage show, go see the backstreet boys, if you want art, go watch a Doors video where Jim Morrisson walks off the stage leaving the Keyboardist to cover the vocals and finish the show, now thats art!!!!!
April 27th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Unfortunately, The music buisness is set up to use addictions (whatever they are) as a tool to keep there artist in line. I have a label and I lay down the law. You got in trouble, you get out of trouble. I have a screening processes and it has failed me several times. All I can offer are my companies resources and time. That’s why you need a really good legal department. LOL
April 27th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
If you look for new music you might want to look at this (or listen to it)
http://www.myspace.com/ginaesegreto
cheers from Italy
Daniele
April 27th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
There’s a band out there right now called Oh, Hush! doing everything the exact OPPOSITE way that you’d think. They put up a few songs, a logo, no pictures, no image, no band members… just an awesome myspace personality, lots of fan interaction, lots of myspace content, contests and fun… and they’ve become one of the biggest buzz bands in the country!! Oh, and the songs are fantastic!!
Check it out… great songs… but even greater marketing!!!
http://www.myspace.com/ohhushmusic
April 27th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Derek,
I like the list. I think artists in this business should strive to be the best at what they do. Some of us are better musicians than others. Some of us are better singers. Some of us, better writers. Some of us understand how to upload JPEG/MP3 files better than others. We all have different strengths, weaknesses, addictions, flaws. Thats what makes music so boundless. people would do well to focus on their own path, rather than the path of others. Daughtry has made millions. Good for Daughtry. Do I like his music? No. Does he care what I think. No. Is he fulfilling his dreams just like every other human being is entitled to. Yes.
Do I think Daughtry is a lucky S>o>B……………………….you bet your a@# i do……………………………………….have a wonderful day in the neighborhood…………
jpm
April 27th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Derek — Regarding the live shows thing, according to one of your other posts (”Never have a limit on your income”), you don’t even GO to live shows. So, if you, Derek Sivers, ran a label, why would you put live performance skills on your list? Then, you would probably have to go to shows some of the time.
Thanks for sending the blog links. Interesting to read.
April 27th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Well..I run my own label..and certainly your arguments are valid..but I have found there is a bit more to it than even you have suggested. I would even invite you, and all of the posters to come have a look.
This is how a label should approach this new market. I honestly believe that. Have a good read..
April 27th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Hey Derek! First of all, THANK YOU SO MUCH for the opportunity you provide to feed my daughter every day. You have enriched my life in so many ways.
I think you would really enjoy Dogwood Speaks. It’s a band out of Berkeley, CA with an unreal lead vocalist.
April 27th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
yes i would sign to your label.
God as my witness, you could add my name to the list of names to fit the criteria.
everything you wrote you look for is embodied in my temple.
i would add that the person i would want to sign has to believe in God, and Jesus, and tell me why, he, she, or they believe in them.
April 27th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
It’s a bunch of horse crap at the end of the day… whatever gets on the radio and into main stream media sells. It could be a 2 fingered piano player at the end of the day - if there is something unique that can be sold.
- it’ matters not the quality of the music so much or the recordings but the feelings / emotions that the artist can deliver with their songs. So I say that image, vocal quality, pretty people and pretty songs can be bland and boring, if we are talking about rock music anyway, it’s always been about flaws and never about American idol.
just my two sense
April 27th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
I Totally agree…
April 27th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
“…And I’m sure there are others…” Juano L.<