Projecting meaning
2011-06-23
Projecting meaning into Chinese characters
Chinese characters look complicated, but they're mostly made up of smaller simpler characters.
- 语 language = words 讠+ five 五+ mouth 口
- 谢 thanks = words 讠+ body 身+ inch 寸
- 妹 younger sister = woman 女+ not-yet 未
- 你 you = person 人 + bow 𠂉 + small 小
- 名 name = evening 夕 + mouth 口
- 样 appearance = tree 木 + sheep 羊
I love learning these because every character is like a tiny poem.
语 language = words 讠+ five 五+ mouth 口
So a language is words that five mouths speak? Brilliant!
谢 thanks = words 讠+ body 身+ inch 寸
Hmmm... so.... when you say thanks, you speak words that give a body an inch of space? Interesting.
名 name = evening 夕 + mouth 口
So your real name is what's spoken by a mouth in the evening? That's kind of romantic.
They're so vivid. I try to imagine the historical or cultural meaning behind each one.
Projecting meaning into Talking Heads lyrics
Talking Heads were a great band from the late-70s to mid-80s. Their lyrics were really evocative and mysterious. Specific but vague. Made you wonder what they were really about.
Here's an example:
Watch out - you might get what you're after
Cool babies - strange but not a stranger
I'm an ordinary guy
Burning down the house
No visible means of support and you have not seen nuthin' yet
Everything's stuck together
I don't know what you expect staring into the TV set
Fighting fire with fire
All wet - hey you might need a raincoat
Shakedown - dreams walking in broad daylight
Three hundred sixty five degrees
Burning down the house
I read an interview with David Byrne from the Talking Heads who said that many of their lyrics were just random. Literally!
They would write evocative phrases onto little pieces of paper, then throw them into a bowl, and shuffle them up. Then they'd pull them out in random order, and put them into the song in that order. They did this because they liked how the listener creates meaning that wasn't intended.
Hearing one phrase next to another makes you assume they're connected in a meaningful way. But nope. It was just random. You made that meaning yourself.
Back to Chinese.
I have a Chinese dictionary called Wenlin that tells the history behind every character.
I looked up 谢, 你, and the rest, and found that those characters are just phonetic. Those composite character bits were not chosen for their meaning, just their sound.
So... it seems I've just been putting the meanings into them, myself. They actually had no meaning.
But even knowing that, I choose to keep doing it. It's poetic. It's beautiful.
Projecting meaning into everything?
How many other things in life really have no meaning?
She was born April 12. He was born September 22. What does it mean?
One day you ride your bike instead of taking the bus. That day your usual bus gets into a big accident. What does it mean?
Black cat crosses your path as you walk under a ladder on Friday the 13th. What does it mean?
Nothing at all.
Nothing has inherent meaning. It is what it is and that's it.
We just choose to project meaning onto things. It feels good.
Even if presented with proof that it's totally random or neutral, we decide it has meaning anyway. It makes life more poetic and beautiful.
(And what if you've projected some bad meaning onto something, and it's getting you down? Don't forget that none of it is true. You're the one that put the meaning into it. You can just as easily take all the meaning out of it.)
Life is just as what you think it is supposed to be! When people are thinking it is a bad idea, you thought it is good. This one sounds like the fishes idea where the Fish A thought he is not in water and Fish B knows he is in water...
Humans love to be existential. The Talking Heads show that perfectly.
That said, you've found meaning in things that we create. Maybe that's all we are supposed to do
Thanks for enunciating what I've been trying to do with my art! I may have to borrow a bit of this for my artist's statement...!
nice..the old chestnut that we create the world we live in. i keep trying to avoid it but it keeps bouncing back ;>
I wonder how deeper projected meaning could be used on a song like "Friday" from Rebecca Black?
I know when growing up and learning some Chinese that many of the characters were taught in a very specific stroke order; many times the difference of a stroke will change the word entirely. Interesting to think about when you consider the projected meaning aspect to this.
Great information, thank you.
I'm guessing these are the words of an atheist/agnostic ...
I would argue that the meaning we project onto things very often give them meaning ... energy follows thought and so ...
anyway, thanks for sharing, I always enjoy your writing!
Derek: I was once a poetry writing student of Anne Sexton. She had a technique in which she would look for a word that just sounded good, and from there she would follow whatever path the meaning of that word interjected into the poem. To me it was much like jamming in music.
Derek,
Thanks for including me on your learning. Another intresting thing to ponder is.
Meaning and Truth are always changing, our egos try to keep them the same, but try as it might they always change.
"And what if you've projected some bad meaning onto something, and it's getting you down?
-- Derek
Don't forget that none of it is true.
You're the one that put the meaning into it.
You can just as easily take all the meaning out of it."
This quite possibly could be the best thing you've ever written!
Thanks! I was hoping the parentheses would diminish its preachiness a bit.
nice insight, Derek.
Words, lyrics can be very cool. There are some lyrics from several of the first 4 Blue Oyster Cult albums you may find mysteriuos and interesting. Another example of words the listener can take in and make into their own. Inspired by this many lyrics of SOTW are written the same way. Example -"Magnetic Star" was written about my grandmother. But it comes across very differnet. In recent times the attention span of people is different and obscure words do not seem to come across as well. Maybe subject matter for another topic all together.
Life is empty and meaningless, and it's empty and meaningless that it's empty and meaningless.
Interesting. Lyrics in a song have never had any meaning to me. I rarely hear the lyrics but more of the sound of the music itself. I guess that is why I prefer instrumental music.
Curious,...how many characters are in the Chinese language?
Solitoode
I like this, Derek. Being present and allowing each new experience to be a blank slate allows us to free up our whole being from past association structures currently occupying our body and mind.
Good article. Love how you pulled it together. I would add that, perhaps things DO have a meaning in and of themselves, but we don't have the ability to know because we see everything throught the filter of our brain construction. What we know is what we make up, as you wrote. I wonder, though, do we make up meaning because meaning exists? Doesn't it exist by virtue of our invention? It's a thought.
This is awesome. And a great reminder. As a writer, I usually believe that 1) my words are "true" 2) that my meaning is super-profound 3) that there is meaning in everything 4) that people share the meanings (of course others think the same as me...ha!)...
Luckily, with nice reminders, I can start at square one in knowing that I PUT the meaning into the things I come across in my life. And yes, it does make it more beautiful, triumphant, tragic, dramatic, but for ME (alone).
The co-creative part is that I get to use all I know and have experienced to continue to create meaning that fulfills my life. I have choice. Whew! Thanks for this.
Very cool. Comments remind me of "Tombstone," when Doc Holiday is lying on his death bed & says "There's no normal life, Wyatt. There's just life."
Also, I have to try that Talking Heads writing technique. haha.
Rainbows Don’t Exist
The perception of rainbows is completely based on the observers perspective. A rainbow has absolutely no material manifestation. An optical illusion humans project meaning into.
in my own songwriting and pursuit of my unique expression - i have taken to adding random colors and effects to free fonts on Windows Movie Maker 6.0 version (the only one i know that lets you add effects to free fonts annd images)- i find unreal amount of meanings the gestalt of images that can project - a bit like Jackson Pollock and maybe Andy Warhol
I think the human mind likes to find meaning even where there is none - like even on this comment i do not know if i am making sense but i am sure it projects some meaning
Thanks Derek...could use thoughts like this everyday! After all is said and done.....it isn't after all!
Your comments remind me of the docu/movie "The Secret." One of the important lessons I liked is "Attitude determines ALTITUDE!" smile, Lisa
Indeed, the only meaning that counts is what WE think something means. Whether it's an experience or a 'thing', we project through our own personal filters.
It makes us accountable for our experiences and for our feelings about our life. If I think that the 'meaning' comes from somewhere else... then I am at the mercy of that 'somewhere else'. And that would just plain suck!
Very interesting about Talking Heads though. I too have done a similar thing with lyrics although not quite that random. I think I will try that out for giggles on an upcoming tune!
Thanks for the very cool post as usual, Mr Sivers.
Ah, the first day that I truly disagree with you.
Yes, I LOVE what you love about the poetry of characters, imagery, language, and could spend all day seeking the meanings, too. There are meanings hidden in everything, if we care to read them.
But, so what if some words are only phonetically created things, rather than deliberate combinations of characters? Is it not possible that some phonetics have a meaning that goes beyond their concrete word definitions? For example, why do SO many cultures use the syllable "MA" for mother (and MUD and other basic, ancient concepts)? Is there something shared by humans - a meaning that goes back to the origins of grunts and words themselves?
When you conclude that things have no inherent connection just because the first way you took them apart it turned out to be random, you are still thinking like a North American (ie. compartmentalised). What Asia is teaching you is that the compartments are just a way of thinking.
To say nothing of the metaphysical universe open to us if we stop thinking that nothing has any meaning or connection in the events of our lives. Oh, the fun you are missing..!
Keep clearing away the meaning.
Clear it away until you have cleared away randomness itself.
Then you are left with Meaning itself.
Linnea
i JUST got the 女＋未 connection, awesome, thanks!! (being the youngest sister in a huge family, this "means" a lot
)
it's interesting how the interpretations/meanings can change so much from traditional to simplified chinese. e.g., one of my favorite (traditional) characters are 聽 (listen) and 憶 (recollection/memory). both with an emphasis on the heart, 心. my mom always said that memory has nothing to do with the brain, but only with the heart.
in simplified chinese, 聽 is 听, with a mouth/speaking left-hand-side.
and yes, totally agree with you on feeling good about projecting meaning into everything. what fun is life otherwise?
Snake oil salesmen and their ilk have depended on this exact human character for their own gain for centuries.... sadly, it is not always a harmless poetic adventure for those that have been duped.
There is an interesting book published in the last year or so called 'Denialism' that describes this quirky human character and illustrates with many examples of fact where serious harm can result.... the authors name escapes me at the moment, but I can find it if you'd like.
What I appreciate about your explanations of these Chinese characters is that you've hit on mnemonics that work for me. Someone could force me to draw these over and over again, but until I "see" and understand the story behind the small characters which make up the big characters, I would be totally lost. Thank you!
I've shifted my beliefs as I've progressed, but I still tend to project something special onto multiple coincidences... probably human nature to do so, or some hard-wired survivalist reasoning for it...
Thank you for your thought provoking posts Derek. We don't see the world as it is, we see the world as we are. But not everything has no meaning. For example, you meant to convey a specific meaning with the words you used on this post. I can take your words to mean whatever I want, but there is a specific authorial intent.
I have a friend who says, "We are all going to die someday so there's no sense in getting upset over anything." He's the happiest person I know!
It's funny how similar logic is the cause of so much depression. Just goes to show that we all have a choice in how we interpret life and all of its events. I believe one day we'll find out that stuff wasn't just random, but we were expected to remain positive and find beauty in everthing. Rock on.
Derek,
Thank you for injecting a much-needed spark of inspiration in my day.
best,
Zainab
After years of writing, I would look at my stuff and say, "What did I mean by that, so that others would understand what was said and how it was meant to be said, so that my meaning would not be missed. Yet, still people could apply what I said in a way that meant more to them. At that point I became much more a writer. With each effort I hope to become a writer! With each day, I hope, but maybe the rehearsal is over?
I guess we need to stop thinking about everything so much. We need to live in the present. We jump ahead so much in our lives and have idea of what should happen, we just need to focus on what's right in front of us and not stack so much meaning behind the experience. Love it. Thanks!
"Nothing has inherent meaning. "
I just argued the opposite in a blog post. As a fiction writer, each word I use has very specific meaning, and my job is to convey the meaning I intend as precisely as language allows me (or, in Lewis Carroll's case, with gibberish). The reader can interpret the words any way he wants, but it doesn't change the DNA of the words themselves. I can inject ambiguity, double meaning, irony or the like through my choice of language, but those are devices employed to manipulate the words.
Obviously, many words have more than one inherent meaning, and it is up to the reader to discern the correct meaning through context - which he does reflexively, naturally, as will 10,000 other readers. Do we all come to the same conclusion because we're projecting the same thing?
(The precipitant of my post was Nike's latest ad campaign, in which they use the word DOPE next to a pill vial out of which spill surfboards, skateboards and snowboards. Is this a promotion of drug use?)
Yeah, Derek this might be one of your best. Our perception is our reality and how one is currently feeling affects their opinion of their reality.
How about your Arabic..?
Poetry..lolll
So that the (meaning) will not be lost and mssed
Chinese and Talking Heads. That's an interesting pair. What are the Chinese characters for burning down the house? Projecting meaning is big business. From what we consume to what we believe, most aspects of our lives are influenced by those selling meaning.
As Viktor Frankl said, "Man's search for meaning is the primary motivation in his life." The beauty of it is indeed that we each create it for ourselves and can change it at will. No "thing" has inherent meaning, and yet the meaning we make for ourselves is nonetheless very real, it's what we live and die by.
Very interesting that we share a love of Kurt Vonnegutt, Jr. and that you've quoted the lyrics of one of my five favorite songs ever--and lived so close to where I grew up, a place where so few people lived.
And as always, really enjoyed the post. (My post quoting you is up today, BTW. I will email you a copy post haste.)
Great stuff!
The way different people can find their own meaning in the same song is why I love music so much.
To me music is perhaps the last, unspoiled piece of true magic. After all, what is magic but creating the opportunity for finding something where there was nothing.
Cheers!
Great stuff, Derek. Thanks! Along these same lines, I'd like to recommend Jim Dreaver's book. "End Your Story, Begin Your Life." It's a must read for anyone looking to bring more peace and present time awareness into their lives. Hope you enjoy it!
It's funny how so many people will like a song, and have no idea what the song says. A song is more than a beat. Take the time to hear what an artist is saying... you may like them even more!
DaPOW.com
Continuous Music Videos
This is really good. Each of us needs to step out of our box and look at all of life in a different perspective instead of retreating back to past learned behaviors and meanings. I always look forward to thinking about everyday things with a totally different outcome than before.
" life is what you make it"...someone's famous words....
rada
Derek,
I love everything about this story.....and not to take away from Mr. Sivers......but I am soooooo glad to be hearing this from so many different people in so many different ways....thanks to Derek and all of you for supporting this way of thinking.
Always a pleasure to discover a deeper meaning. Even better to be able to give it.
oh wow man ,like ,nothing is everything! Ya'll need to get out of that talking heads silliness and listen to some blues. get real
I like this. I used to be someone who would do anything to avoid what I felt would be devastating outcomes of my decisions. After letting the Shunryu Suzuki and Thich Nhat Hanh soak in, I get the neutrality of anything. There is nothing devastating. It just is. But our lives need meaning, our work needs meaning, for us to fully feel we're having this 'human experience' for a reason. And as much as I like to try to communicate through my work, I like that ultimately, anyone who sees or hears what I do will have their own experience with it.
Meaning is either projected, in those situations in which the person projecting is unconsciously seeing themselves (AND NOT THE PERSON or thing UPON WHOM THEY ARE PROJECTING) in someone/thing else, or it is discovered, in those situations in which the significance of of someone to you, is made clear (by a moment of insight, in which we seem them/it in them/its context).
The human tendency to apophenia is commonplace. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia
Love it Derek!
Good article - here's one for you to think about if you don't already know these characters. In ancient China the character “吕”, two mouths together, meant to kiss. So what do you think three mouths "品" would insinuate or even better, four mouths and a dog, “器” ....have fun with it
Hope you're doing well. I'll be relocating to SG next week for a few months so I hope we'll have a chance to meet up.
Oh yes, is like if our brains were wired to be always hungry of meaning. Something in our heads feels discomfort when exposed to inconsistencies. We want to scale things (our societies, our culture) consistently.
What was curious to me here, and I’m not surprised to “hear” this from you, is the chinese thing.
The idiographic writing is extremely metaphoric. Almost a poem like you said.
I’m kind of sensible about language working like a barrier (and perceiving people that knows how to transcend that barrier.) Because words aren’t “the thing.” Social constructs (shared thoughts) are “the think.” Words are just like a painting in a canvas (think of five painters painting the “same” model/landscape.) Each one will use his/her own meaning and render something.
But the tool can be more or less flexible. Those chinese metaphors are powerful and inspiring. In contraposition, a legal contract is brain-pain for non-lawyers. Like debugging software code for non-programmers (because contracts are pretty much software in the legal operative system.)
Maybe that's why people that can think in a couple of additional languages somehow enjoy coming and going more easily on those “thinking-modes”
I’m thinking loud here: you can use the formal mode to do things and the metaphoric mode to be inspired about what things make sense to do
PD: your idea vs. execution post comes to mind
IF UPON HEARING THE LYRICS AND MUSIC I HAVE WRITTEN AND ARRANGED THE LISTENER FEELS WITHIN THEMSELVES THE FEELINGS I FELT WHEN I WROTE IT, EVEN IF APPLIED TO AN EXPERIENCE WITHIN THEIR OWN EXISTANCE, THEN I FEEL THAT I HAVE BEEN SUCESSFUL IN MY OWN SMALL WAY.
WILLIAM W. BILLY MARTIN 6-23-11
Thanks Derek, this is your best ever. You've caught the essence of reading anything-including the bible.
"Great Stuff !" really ?
"Nothing has inherent meaning" ?
"We just choose to project meaning onto things"
What about PAIN... and other commonality experiences. ie: LOVE... INSPIRATION... etc.
Did we 'choose to project' the PAIN ?
Did we create the LOVE... or did we just encounter it ?"
Do we 'decide' to breathe... or is that something that is common to all humanity ?
And if it's common... what else is also such ?
If we decide that breathing has no "inherent meaning", can we stop breathing ?
NO... We cannot.
Very well said Derek... I have just read the 4 aggreements by Don Miguel Ruiz, and from his writings I found "my peace" in never assuming, never taking things personal, being impecable with my word and always doing my best....
I agree with Stefano where there is usually/always an intent by the writer to get thoughts across in words... having said that I have learned to take what I like and leave the rest!! Good work my friend!!
The "cut-up" method was invented by dadaists, popularized by William S. Burroughs, and championed by David Bowie and Brian Eno. I'm sure Byrne learned about it listening to LOW.
William Burroughs cut ups
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NU3dIdqIBw
I use it, too--great way to rattle the songwriting cage.
I love the concept/word apophenia - as someone mentioned earlier. From a scientific point of view, our perceptual systems are fine tuned to detect and categorize. It's so important that we don't miss those identifications that our sensitivity is cranked and we get a lot of false positives. Are there really faces in clouds? Of course not, but we see them because we don't want to miss any faces.
This dovetails nicely with my recent blog post, "Meaning Machine," about how our minds create meaning at every opportunity, even (or especially) when there is no meaning there to begin with.. and how working with random material can bring this normally unconscious reflex out into the foreground.
Cool stuff!
-Richard Middleton
Oops.. I meant to include a link to my blog post, "Meaning Machine," in my comment (#59 above)..
http://www.richardmiddleton.com/blog
The only thing is; Once you project a meaning to something, it then has meaning. Then you have to ask yourself: What caused me to add meaning to this thing? And, what does that mean?
Reminds me of the old 70's TV series Kung Fu. I watched each week as Master Po and Qui Chang Kane looked for the Dao, or meaning of life. They found beauty and good in everything, even the bad people they ran across. My favorite line from that show was " what will happen will happen, if you are afraid or not"! Like you said, we put our own little spin on everything but it is going to happen no matter what.
the only thing that has meaning in life is time! the only real thing we all have in common is, we are all human beings, which makes human being the biggest organization in the world, as human beings we sometimes allow ourselves to get involved in so many concepts, groups, clicks, and other things that divide us from ourselves, makes us argue with one another, make war with one another, and over time grow distant from one another, let us not forget, before we were members of anything, we were and are human beings first, lets join together again!
Derek, thanks for sharing with us how you learn...I have done similar exercises in the past with other learning challenges with great success.
When I was a student in Boston, had to make greeting cards and T-shirts with Chinese characters in order to earn some money.Brush and ink to write Chinese characters were printed on silk-screen, write the meaning behind such a thing .... remembered.
An interpretation of a “Meaning” or written/sung words, can be fun in itself.
Try finding a meaning in a simple song, and then have someone else do the same.
Very rare they would be the same.
person, places, things, ideas lack inherent existence(meaning)BECAUSE they appear to our minds. Not in spite of them appearing to our minds.
I think you may have inspired something here. "What Does It Mean?" seems lyrical to me. I'll let you know if anything comes of it. Good subject for a song, too!
Good,Derek. It is only us slow ones that slow up the system, the one who impose a block-a blockage in the flow of reality. Our finger in the dike stops the whole flow. Language must be so inclusive and our thoughts so expansive that we can't exclude logic, block perception,impede emotion nor interpose our reality because we need to.
others.
My father passed away at 98 last year. He was a man of precious few words. He used a word quite often that I thought was vague but brilliant. He would react to many situations by saying . . . . "wow"
Hey, Derek!
Cool post! I am a believer of the Tao. I think everything has a meaning and serves a purpose, but my simple, limited human mind cannot fully fathom the complexities and intricacies of the web of life, where everything is intertwined and interconnected. Sometimes I wonder out loud why certain things happen or why I meet certain people under what seem to be completely random circumstances, but I quickly surrender to the fact that I will not understand as long as I live in my head. But as soon as I allow my heart take over, there is a shift in my perception and my relation to the world. I become One with the world. What that simply means is that I no longer have to know, much like the leaves on a tree just are, and the sun just rises and sets, and provides the Nature with all its love and life force, without ever questioning. For we are in this together. Nothing and nobody exists independently. I am grateful to be a teeny tiny node of this glorious web of life and I participate and do my part with complete love, trust and surrender.
Life and God is one and the same.
Natural order,events, and all things that are, are perfect. But
that perfection may not work for you, because you cannot handle its
order. You project your interpretation of that which is, into your understanding of that order,and move forward making a truth for you, and maybe for others.
But that truth my only be a shadow from the perfection we witness.
This is really inspiring! Is it all right to post excerpt of it on my blog linking it back to yours?
Thank you.
I'll take it that you do not believe in divine intervention?
Just because the artist is not aware of the message of his own work does not necessarily mean there isn't a greater intended meaning behind it.
It doesn't really matter if we pull our words randomly out of a hat or painstakingly craft them over many sleepless nights. As artists we are the mediums of our collective reality.
It is quite possible that our interpretations of our own art may be the most inaccurate and that it is up to the collective to decipher it's true meaning.
I don't know about you, but I'm not sure that I want to live in a world where everything is meaningless.
"I am the one who holds the pen but I am not always the one who moves it."
Good view, I like it.
"The meaning of life is to create meaning in life."
Life is uncertain. No one knows what's going to happen next. I find that by accepting the uncertainty I'm a lot happier.
We can put whatever meaning on life that we want. It's a choice we make. Those choices create the flavor of our existence.
Derek, just before you're email arrived I was showing Preston... David Byrne singing 'Road to Nowhere' he'd not heard that one. This was shortly after he said that he feels like we're waiting for godot. There must be a meaning in here surely. No of course there isn't, but I know a lot of people that would insist on finding one.
There is much to reflect upon here, Derek. Projection must be in the social consciousness big-time as it keeps coming up as an issue we must all deal with for our own sanity and for the pursuit of truth and for our well-being.
Projection is tied in I suppose to one's perception of reality. We garner our perceptions from experiences and some of that experience is clouded by our own fears and distortions of reality that come from our culture's way of seeing, from how we have been indoctrinated into reality.
I've always liked the Talking Heads. That's quite the admission to randomly picking out phrases and turning them into lyrics. I should try it! In a way, the poet does that in their mind when turning phrases about. Poems and/or lyrics are meant to inspire and if truly artful will allow the space between the words and the music to open up meaningfulness for you. Real art is not about interjecting or projecting one's "reality" or dogma and imposing it on others - that would be propaganda. Real authentic art, in my humble opinion, is about inspiring one to be made new or to see or feel renewed in some delightful and inspiring way that takes one out of himself or herself to a new place and dimension.
Your last paragraph, Derek, is filled with a truth that I cannot deny. If we hold onto "meaning" that is really "meaningless" we will live our lives entrapped or imprisoned in a drama that has no escape for good purposes.
I read the book "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill, who was commissioned by the the Richest man in the world at that time Andrew Carnegie to write the book. Carnegie was multimillionaire Steal Tycoon in the Early 1900's. Hill took more than 20 years interviewing and cataloging all the vital characteristics of successful rich men. What hill ended up with in his Book "Think and Grow Rich" was astounding that fist we must desire a thing so badly that it consumes us with a burning desire. 2. We must write down a definite plan of action to achieve this burning desire. 3. We must read aloud twice daily this plan until it's ingrained in us and becomes a reality. Sounds simple huh yes and no. The words that we speak in our daily lives are projecting onto us either a failed lifestyle or a successful one, it all depends on our belief or faith in the words we speak and the emotion and faith that we project into them. One man says that he can become a wealthy business Mogul; another says I can't do it that it’s impossible. Which of these two men are right? They both are right, one man is using his words to believe and achieve the best by speaking or projecting his positive belief in his words which in time translates into positive actions to achieve, the other man is doing the same but only in a negative way to achieve nothing. What we project into the words that we speak give them wings to take flight to either achieve, or fail, its all in what we believe when we speak words and what we project into those words. That’s my take on it.
This is why I don't get excited about horoscopes or birth date calendars or anything else that tries to attempt to define my life by something arbitrary. Plus I worry that by labeling yourself a Virgo or a Cancer you've put a boundary on what you can "be."
Beautiful
I've certainly heard the idea before but the way you experientially led me through it - demonstrative and gorgeous at once. You're a great writer!
Chinese friends of mine have told me that Chinese characters offer significant opportunities for puns.
Hi Derek, thanks for another good read. It gives really some insight into how the chinese project meanings into words and character.
Well, projecting meanings into words ...could be personally or culturally oriented, when God isn't considered.
For those who consider God as the source of all things, nothing is meaningless. And no word is without meaning. Therefore a meaning given to a word today cannot be void of its meaning tomorrow because of its ill sides of it.
The Bible calls God as the very WORD (John 1v1). And He, God, in the beginning created all things from His words, not actions but words. God Said, Let There Be...And There Was...(Genesis 1v3).
If you read through Genesis chapter one, you would realize that the whole creation came to be not by a literal, physical action of God, but by the spoken words of God.
It was always, "GOD Said, Let there be...and There was...." Now imagine that His words had no meaning!!! what would have happened if He said
Let There be what He said Let there be?
Okay, like you said that anyone can read in and out meaning to words, how would God be God if He Said Let there Be...And There was... but later rid the "Let There Be.." of its meaning because things didn't work out well for Him?
He would not be a faithful God, would be a lair, would be changing and certainly not the creator of all.
But He is the creator of all (Genesis 1v1). He is a faithful God who does not change (Malachi 3v6, James 1v17). He is the same forever (Hebrews 13v8). His words never changes but abides forever (1 Peter 1v25).
Christians consider words as having eternal meanings, whether good or bad. Although some word could be created to convey a meaning, it only would be meaningful if the given meaning stands for all time.
We speak words because we believe what we say by faith (2 Corinthians 4v13). And because we believe words have unchanging meanings not read into by a person, we speak.
May God increase the oil on your pen.
That is beautiful Derek. These ideas are actually the basis of hypnosis. By being really vague in a very specific way, people create their own meanings. I've always loved the way Phish wrote lyrics in this way. It makes you want to listen over and over because the meaning you give it continually changes. Just like a really good painting or book that you come back to through the years. Andy by the way, Chinese is a such a gorgeous, musical language! Much Love, AE
What does this mean?
谢 你
It's all part of our ceaseless yearning for context, continuity, and connection with one another. If you tell a story and do not give someone clear details about how things appear, they will make them up. It's why eyewitness testimony is so unreliable. We instantly catalog all data we receive into our own internal library of experience. Also, probably why babies look so blissed-out...or befuddled, depending on your own perceptual Dewey Decimal system.
I love reading your articles. Finding meaning in life is what's it's all about, isn't it? Without projecting meaning, what IS there?
Here's an interesting view on motivation and meaning:
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/dan_pink_on_motivation.html
Honestly, I find it disturbing to posit that there is no meaning for anything even more than applying too much meaning to everything. Derek, What do the words, "Say what you mean and mean what you say" mean to you? It is true that we are the captains of our ships, but if we steer without seeking guidance (whether that be by prayer, consideration, meditation, etc) is it not more likely we would run ashore? There is meaning for each of us as individuals that is more than imaginary or created. And there is also collective meaning to what all of us know to be the human experience. There is even collective meaning for all living things! But to my mind, all meaning
should coalesce around LOVE...for that is all we have ever been, all we are, and all we will ever be. LOVE is the only meaningful gift we have to give and truly the only essence that we take with us when we leave this world. Which is why "God is Love" is the most powerful of all meanings.
Thanks Derek, for 2 thought-provoking topics combined. I had fun scrolling down the comments and picking a few random lines from several of them to see if they might work in my next song:
Not everything has no meaning.
i do not know if i am making sense
but i am sure it projects some meaning
I still tend to project something special onto multiple coincidences..
the difference of a stroke will change the word entirely.
music is perhaps the last, unspoiled piece of true magic.
I am that I am.
Nice. Funny. I'd recently been thinking about the symbols of the chinese and japanese characters ...and suddenly this pops up. Liked it very much.
Laura
I yam yet eye om
-Gold
"...a tree fell beside me, but I didn't hear it/Do I exist? If not, should I fear it?/The workbench is cluttered, I better go clear it/And that is the meaning of life.
The meaning of life is: whatever you make it
A dusty maracca, no fun 'til you shake it
Dress it up fancy, or leave it all
naked, but
that is the meaning of life."
Jeep
random gibberish
meaning nothing
in the shadows
the trees make
green and yellow
like french dreams
kings feel heavy
heaven is crowded
hmm complex. Meaning..
plz forgive my sober Dutch thinking on this. We are not humans the way we think we are. We are creators of ourselves. We live in a body with millions of years of established successful structures and processes. Successful because yr very existence proofs the biological survival strategies which withstand millions of years of unanimous (hostile) conditions, epochs of evolution to survive. Meaning is the core of yr Identity. Also of the animal. It is only meaning you see and hear around you and that motivates you to move a finger or more. Only meaning can do that. Without meaning you will freeze because the last meaning will reveal itself: existential fear for the totally unknown, a strong echo from our animal past. So you or the animal have to have meaning in every context in order to find out or to execute what or who he is.
Meaning is and cannot be something else then the relationship between you and your object of attention. You need and will create that relationship as it will base the experience of what you are ( think you are) relative to what you are not. All the meaning you see around you perfectly reflect your identity in motion, equaling your journey or personal development into the unknown. We will and always want to create meaning in everything we encounter as everything we will encounter will ask for only that: How do you relate to me? Who are you?
I took some classes in interpersonal communication. The professor wrote "shit" on the blackboard and then wiped it off with his hand as he said, "ooh, nasty." "Words have the meaning that we
give them".
Thanks for reminding me!
I was attracted to learning Mandarin for this very reason! The metaphoric world contained in every character...
I play with two decks of cards each morning(http://tinyurl.com/5v8e5zg). One is a painting of a random scene and one is a word. I ask a question to myself and pick the cards. The cards don't tell me anything - I create all the meaning myself. Its a fun and intriguing foray into my subconscious mind. Great to do with another and see how different the responses can be to "What does this card mean?"
I've gone so far in some of my songs as to actually make up words. I loved the idea of people hearing what they wanted to hear. If I'm not mistaken, I think the Cocteau Twins made a career of that.
When we give meaning to something, we are creating our own reality-- and so projection = affirmation.
It's fascinating that humans need to attach names and meaning to everything. I wonder if it has more to do with our imaginations than rational thought...
On another note, there is nothing like the conversation with a child; "But why is it called....?"
I project - your Brilliant!!! Reality really is just perception. Two people in the same room can see the circumstances in completely different manners. Its unfortunate that people go through life with such struggle because they believe its thier fate. I always have to laugh when people come up after a show and tell me what a song means. I just agree with them - its thier reality, why should I change it.
We see and understand things differently from one another, reaching a consensus as to the meaning, or exactly what the color red looks like, and assume that other people see or understand as we do. Close, but no cigar.
An artist can tell the public what the art means, but they still bring their own perceptions to it.
I find the same thing in paintings...
just a suggestion of a figure, and your mind assumes it, 'sees' it.
Great artical. Love the Taking Heads. I agree I think people put their own meaning into things. However, incidental events, that seem random, may have may have a special meaning for us. Sometimes it's hard to see it.
I completely agree with the meaning of this post [irony intentional]. Rather than look for a greater meaning behind life and many of the things that happen during it, I usually just assume that life is what we make of it. As Neil Peart wrote in the lyrics to Roll The Bones: "Why are we here? Because we're here... Why does it happen? Because it happens..."
Interesting songwriting technique from David Byrne, though... perhaps I'll have to try it sometime.
This was an interesting post. But, not every writer creates work in that way,random, with no intent of meaning, leaving the reader or listener to supply the meaning that they want.Its almost an attempt to put form to something to render it understandable and than worthy of attention. What about lyrics that seem to perfectly embody strong emotional feeling that the listener responds to because the listener recognizes the truth of that depiction? That was the intention of the writer and not some random collection thrown up in the air so others could have an interesting mental puzzle to solve.
Rainbows are fascinating. Wasn't the first person to have that experience!
Nice article. - So you're saying talking heads were actually Chinese?
I respectfully disagree that life has no meaning. For example, I believe there are morals. I wouldn't agree with someone who had a worldview that they could behave anyway they felt like because everything is random and arbitrary. I guess this goes all the way back to the Big Bang...if you believe that a random explosion can create all the complexity and life and physics in the world...
I have just restarted the Course in Miracles Workbook. Your writing matches what is taught in the first several lessons.
There are no accidental coincidences.
Thanks.
Humans are at the point at which language is failing us. It's a potentially creative time. Everything has meaning, but not in the way we think. Our grey matter never has, and never will understand a lot of what we experience. The mystics say 'the mind knows not'. Might as well abandon your attempts to understand if they don't work. As the Talking Heads suggested: STOP MAKING SENSE!
"We tell ourselves stories in order to live… We look for the sermon in the suicide… We interpret what we see, select the most workable of the multiple choices. We live entirely…by the imposition of a narrative line on disparate images, by the ideas with which we have learned to freeze the shifting phantasmagoria which is our actual experience." - Joan Didion
Good to hear this, as many people say "there is a meaning to everything" .... and tht kinda gets heavy after a while....
I still believe "everything is connected", as energy attracts and affects energy.... but too exhausting trying to figure out "why"....
I believe that EVERYTHING in life is CONNECTED to each other in some way. (Even though we aren't always aware of it.) So, in that way, each thing DOES have "meaning," if only in relation to other things.
Things that make you "HHMMM..."
That came at just the right time.... see, right there, I could find some meaning to it.... at one point I might have tried. (it actually bugs me when people say 'everything happens for a reason...') anyway.....I was having some issues with lyrics today....over thinking. And then thinking what I was coming up with was too simplistic or over done.
anyway... this got me thinking in a different way...and if anything else, makes me want to listen to some talking heads.
Everything is meaningless. Including that statement.
like i said in my liner notes of my new album [not cd] 'i caught up with alfie one day--and when i ask him--he simply smiled- shrugged his shoulders and walked away. shalom.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmnnn
As to meaning in phonetics, growing up with the native culture..you find one word...like the word for snow...can be pronounced slightly different many, many times and mean many, many different ways snow can fall...one word, many meanings... As to perceptions,...ie, placing meaning in objects, from one's own perceptions...is vast and has many biases...
As to faith in these perceptions, one can only conclude truth through testing these perceptions, and finding results that surface true....
Fun to discourse Derek!!
I planted my garden today...pleasure! Rain and sun...perfect!
Rachel
I like this one the best.
* I suffer from projecting meaning on to things that don't correlate. Happens all the time. I'm a "feeling Junky". Like people who listen to the blues constantly and just associate that sound tone with feeling emotional.
* Naturally, the extreme case of this - is somewhat of an "OCD" term, that is a false term. . . b/c no matter how bad that gets, you can take meaning away from things. . . and give them new associations. . . from a nuetral position in our mind.
Ok, so good article. I can dig it... It's like, "should I live in Queens, Should I live in Brooklyn? Should I live in Manhattan? Should I live in Jersey City? - doesn't it matter? No, it's just the association we put to those neighborhoods that carry more weight.
I could go on forever. . . as I'm sure could you
Peace and good wind. For the wind has no meaning.
The thing I like about Chinese characters and some other cultures is that they have picture/symbols.
"Picture is worth a thousand words"?
What is now a hardcore language and framework of symbols was once some people's playfulness and creativity.
Cool, technique
liberating that even overflows into His singing style would like to see Him live.
Interesting
Thank You
very throught of tive
You sound somewhat like the Talking Heads. They purposely used a technique in their music and got a variety of responses. (Aren't you doing the same to evoke a response?) They may have used random sentences but they did it for a purpose or purposes. There is no inherent meaning? Other than what we project into it? Derek that's slightly less than hogwash.That is only half of it. What is is and it has its own purpose whatever that might be. None of us have yet become a God to know the answers to the points you are raising. Each of us have our own interpretatons and projections into this world and others that simply adds to the complexity of life and to its richness and its confusion!
The Talking Heads lyrics reminds me of dadaist poetry, cut up random words and/or phrases and throw them on the ground. A poem emerges.
Chicken entrails used to read future and fortunes. Aaaah....gone are the days. Now there is astrology, numerology and facebook.
I've wasted a lot of time looking for hidden meaning. I think it just takes me out of being present--in the moment. I position myself as either future or past oriented and neglect the present moment. What is...is, until it changes. One second ago will never be again and there may not be one more second for me. Where is my heart, my mind, my spirit right now?
this might seem like a totally irrelevant topic but just some minor input.
the chinese that majority of us are learning now is simplified chinese, a by product of the culture revolution of china. in simple it mean most "meaning" behind the chinese word is gone :(
for example, in traditonal chineses, "listen" is written as 聽，which can translate to using your ear, eye and HEART to "listen", but the simplified version is written as "听“， which meaning using just mouth to "listen" :(
great meaning is lost. another great example is 愛（trad,love) vs 爱 (simp.love), the "心(heart)" is taken out of love. So we don't love with our heart anymore :(
The article and its ensuing comments brought to mind this poem I'd written back in the early 80's after I'd experienced the first death from AIDS of someone I knew.
Icarus
Slower moves the eyes blink
my mind into a deeper unknowing;
Up against this loss we rage
creative against nature's viral
decimation thrust human endeavor
or what of all our futures' history?
Nor was he afraid of fire, then
are we now burning our brains with why?
If we do nothing there is no why
only loss and loss
But at the speed of light effect is cause
what comes of this death is why
another candle and another and another
flames must flame
If to the moon, why not another sunrise?
copyright 1982, Philip D. Luing
more writings at:
www.philipdluing.com
www.charlesstephenhughes.com
www.philipluing.com
If you'll allow me one further comment, the "meaning" of the previously posted poem is this:
The instant of all becoming
encompasses both order and chaos
To every action we encounter
we join our response
in order to realize its purpose
within our own parameters
copyright 2011, Philip D. Luing
Good is Bad.
Bad is Good.
Light is Dark.
Dark is Light.
To Reason is to Think.
To Non Reason is Blind.
There is good and bad in everything
and everything is to reason.
Good one Derek.
Sinfest rifts on this idea of characters having "meaning":
http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=3916
Most of them are inside jokes to the comic, but that is the connection I made.
Burroughs and his cohorts believed the first thought is the best thought.
When it comes to nonsense lyrics. Watch out - you might get what you're after.
I'm loving how you're getting people to think about this, but I don't necessarily make the leap with you that "nothing has meaning." Meaning is for sure assigned by the receiver but, David Byrne notwithstanding, many artists create with more specific intent. They know what they mean, and do their best to impart that creatively.
Oh, if you gonna look at the meaning in the composition of Chinese character, please do look at traditional Chinese, rather than these fragmentary simplified ones.
The traditional version of words you post are 語, 謝, 妹, 你, 名, 樣.
讠 was 言, and still IS in Hong Kong and Taiwan, meaning speech/word, how could it be without a mouth!?
The simplified chinese is a product of the Mao government, aiming to disable the people from reading books prior to Mao. Everyone using traditional Chinese could read text script from as early as Han Dynasty (that is 200BC !) because Chinese characters have not change much since then, only adding more. I bet not much european descent know how to read greek/latin script right?
Best Sivers Evr.....
"Old MacDonald had a Chinese Calendar influenced farm, E,I,E,I,O.With a tiger here & a rat there & a monkey here & a dragon there..."
www.twitter.com/markpengilly
Hey Derek,
Thanks for the short crash course in Mandarin.
Have you read the book "The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra".
http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Physics-Exploration-Parallels-Anniversary/dp/1570625190
Talks about the parallels of Eastern Mysticism and Physics. Its a wonderful read as it grapples with topics on similar lines. How we started associating patterns and meaning to everything, analyzing and compartmentalizing.
They also talk about Koans - Which are riddles for to be monks. They are oxymoron in nature but hold some meaning.
I am sure you'll love it
I continue to "get" the truth in this.....and sometimes I feel overwhelmed or frightened by it. Then it passes and the realization that the responsibility of creating my life, my reality......is entirely in my hands.....and that is the freedom I say I want.....so I need to honor that freedom, that gift it is. Meaning.....ah, meaning, yes something means what meaning I assign to it.....no inherent meaning which every human being agrees to....... HA.....a good news/bad news joke.........so dear Derek, thanks for sharing this.........................
Thanks for new article.
Greetings from the Netherlands to You.
Jan
"And what if you've projected some bad meaning onto something, and it's getting you down? Don't forget that none of it is true. You're the one that put the meaning into it. You can just as easily take all the meaning out of it."
Yeah, that is a very helpful statement (at least the meaning I put into it was helpful).
Thanks Derek, very insightful post.
- J.
haha. i think maybe all the fish are in hot water here - but just don't know it yet!
seriously - kids (even 'grown kids') love to play the game 'Mad Libs'...
(there are many online versions now available btw, e.g., http://www.wordlibs.com/ )
This makes it also interesting when confronted by writing that very much had connected meaning into each and every word! Perhaps most people view these lyrics as random!
GREAT to read what you wrote AND all of these comments. I love to teach my design students about the creation of meaning, the development of language systems..... Plus language shifts and changes (and consequently meaning shifts and changes).
Plus embedded in our language structures are cultural assumptions, values, etc. Completely invisible to us [just like water is to the fish.... ;-) ....].
Love your post.
The comment by Rada on the above makes me recall one sentence in the advertisement of "武汉 红金龙(It's a company's name)"，"思想有多远，我们就能走多远！(My poor translation: We may go as far as we think.)".
Thanks for all of the above, your post and the comments...
PS: I'm a Chinese, but I've never tried to pop up something like that on Chinese characters. Because they are self-explained and so nature for us. Maybe I'm in my "water". And now I'm in France for my PhD, finally I pop up the question "How do you create a language just with a limited list of letters? My college tells me that He doesn't know. HaHa, He is in another pool!
PPS: If you really want know the history of some Chinese characters, you should check out www.zdic.net. But please have your own thoughts before going to this web page for the meanings!
Keep thinking, sharing, and ballooning!
This is one of my favorite parts of life. In some ways it is related to synchronicity, which is excellent too. Another band I think has great open meaning lyrics is Pavement. On the bad side of things not really having bad meaning you should read this. (you are right). http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=turn-me-on-dead-man
Thanks for sharing.
-Matt
Thanks for sharing your (current) ideas on meaning.
I also currently share your ideas that "meaning" is what we project into things.
I think this interpretation is reasonable, apart from, in my opinions, the "nothing" in "nothing has inherent meaning".
What's "meaning", anyway? And is your "meaning" the same as my "meaning"?
Is your use of "meaning" has the same intention as mine? as their?
Thanks, again for a nice post!
Interesting topics are usually controversial :D (or is it the other way round?)
everything is everything
I think I understand what you are trying to say. It is a constructive path to mental freedom not to conjoin and attach meaning to events. However certain superstitious ideas existed before we were born and we learn about them while growing up. It depends on your environment and influences. In my case I am superstitious;its not that I want to be, but I think my environment and influences have caused me to believe that the external universe gives a forewarning of an unhappy or happy event to come and in my case 7 out of 10 times these messages do amaze me with their accuracy. Logically though, they may be coincidences, but intuitively I feel they are not.
You've helped me identify why I never liked the Talking Heads. Since I first heard Country music at age 2, I've always cared more about the lyrics of a song than the music.If I can't make heads or tails out of what's being sung, I don't like the song. This is why I quickly grew tired of Yes, although in their case the music was more interesting. But, I still dig what you said about the Chinese characters- kind of reminds me of that post you did about the blank canvas.
Everything contains meaning, but some more and some less..
Also our meanings are different to each person, especially in music, which you don´t mention here.
what does it mean for example to be a black person if you are white.
What does it mean to be a moslem if you are a jew.
i.e. nothing is fixed or universal.
what value to the eye has a diamond in the rough? and after it is cut? nothing is fixed or can there be any rules about meaning.
What does our justice system mean to a poor person, a rich person, or to a criminal? ron
I was born on April 12, and you picked April 12 for your example. Hmm... I wonder what that means. Nice article.
Derek,
This is a Really good one. Multiple meanings, layers, distinctly post blog authorly...
And. As always. Timely. Thank you. It was a helpful perspective.
Best,
~ stefan
Derek,
Though I'm a Japanese using chinese characters in my daily life, I've never given further thoughts about a background or history of them. That's amazing to know that one character has poetic combination of several letters, and that seems very meaningful.
Dear Derek,
how are you doing? I really loved your article, and it is up to us to take things seriously or take a chill pill, if any one demotivates us or puts us down, we should put good meaning to what he/she told about us & be happy. You even made it more interesting by mentioning about the musical group & Chinese language.
Thanks, it was awesome.
Regards,
Adil
"I have nothing to say to that." lol.
Sean.
Sorry to lower the tone of this philosophical discussion BUT........British student wins China’s version of X Factor "TALENTED Brit Mary-Jess Leaverland went to study in the Far East - and won China's version of The X Facto" http://bit.ly/mtjxYn
Just after I read Derek's article this singer featured on the BBC News channel today. Was this a co-incidence?
That was fun to read and a nice break from talking about the music business.
Petty people think mostly about themselves and their problems and spin round and round getting dizzy. Luckily you are not one of them. I enjoyed your article and will reread it when I am so self absorbed that I cannot see out of my own self constructed prison
If my mind is full of thoughts that have been forced on me by popular culture, business, religion, parents, and my own desires, then how will I ever be able to observe and comprehend the truth?
Language is really an effort to help us explain our own feelings to others as well as our self. The real masterpiece begins when we just flow with it.
This is why great Art makes people stop for a moment and recalibrate.
Great Post Derek.
Attitude changes everything.
we believe in nothing, lebowski! nothing!
Reminds me of a french word game called "cadavre exquis". The principle is easy, take words, put them on paper, throw them in a hat and then pass by(it is supposed to be played by two people at least.) Each morning, I take two words randomly out of the dictionary (speaking 7 languages, I have some matter to go through) and give them meaning. I often repeat the process during the day. The first words ever put together in this game were "cadavre" and "exquis". It is rather explicit: exquisite cadaver. Yet there are way more intricate and odd combinations. It can also be absolutely hilarious.
/JB
I love this Derek... I get it! Like my song- LIFE'S JUST A COLOR TV! Its from the same rhythm of thought. Have a listen... Its on: CD BABY, ReverbNation or My Space...
living without giving is _________!
Thanks Derek, very cool and interesting. The Talking Heads info... wow! I like that!! Might try it with Bible quotes sometime. Almost did it with my latest song attempt "I Wonder When" -- a series of little questions and thoughts I put to music. Friends like the tune... we'll see. I guess I'm headed in that direction a bit. Again, thanks for the inspiration! Appreciate it.
love it. Logos. as our language has deteriorated, and in as much as our level of time/attention span, and the bastardization of such "meaning". process and how one lives and the "getting there" is life. So many are finding the cheap and quick, or flash, which leaves them, in the end hallow and empty. beautiful stuff. thanks for your insights all the best. d by the by derek. Roy Campbell the trumpet player has agreed to join the wetpaint ensemble, paring down and focusing. the music is deepening and becoming really really fine. almost ready. thanks for your support. d
Is there meaning in the double rainbow having taken place on Elvis' birthday?
Long live the King.
Life is what we make it to a large degree and how we deal with the events in it. The choices we make and the consequences. The attitude we choose to have etc.....we need to make the most of it - whatever that means or whatever we project that to mean!
What if a character or an utterance has "double- meaning" or in some cases even a "triple-meaning"? It happens frequently!
I really like what yaoming, post #125 had to say. yaoming understands.
wow, being one of ur chinese teachers, i,d like to say i,m surprised about this and also proud of u. This is my first time to see those interesting definitions from foreign chinese language learners. I hope u can stick on it and find ur own ways to learn more.
Good reading-
I just got David Byrne's Bicycle Diaries- can't wait to check it out.
My band, Rage Area does a song that really fits with this post, in more ways than one..."Lost at Last"
http://youtu.be/NiTN9T-MmUY
You might also want to check out my Chinese learning site at
http://www.chinese-course.com/
We break down words into compound words.
First off, this is good insight for songwriters and musicians who can sometimes be easily discouraged by negative comments or apathy... the flip side is that there are also people who ascribe a positive experience to the music...
Second... if 'things' had meaning, then they would mean the same to everyone. They don't. This is because the 'meaning' associated with them is subjective and not objective. To me, American Idol has absolutely no meaning... none... zero... couldn't care less. And yet, there are those who say 'look what this means to these talented artists who otherwise wouldn't have been heard'.
Actually, you see nothing except light bouncing off of objects and entering your eyeball, which your brain interprets based on your own filtering systems.... just a thought.
Derek love the Chinese word teaching. Always wondered about that. And the Talking Head song is brilliant. So let me add to your "Projecting Meaning". The great words of Solomon.
These are the words of the Teacher, King David’s son, who ruled in Jerusalem.
“Everything is meaningless,” says the Teacher, “completely meaningless!”
What do people get for all their hard work under the sun? Generations come and generations go, but the earth never changes. The sun rises and the sun sets, then hurries around to rise again. The wind blows south, and then turns north. Around and around it goes, blowing in circles. Rivers run into the sea, but the sea is never full. Then the water returns again to the rivers and flows out again to the sea. Everything is wearisome beyond description. No matter how much we see, we are never satisfied. No matter how much we hear, we are not content.
History merely repeats itself. It has all been done before. Nothing under the sun is truly new. Sometimes people say, “Here is something new!” But actually it is old; nothing is ever truly new. We don’t remember what happened in the past, and in future generations, no one will remember what we are doing now. Ecclesiastes 1:1-11
So I had to come back again today to re-read the Chinese bit. Derek, thanks for teaching me this. I never realized that this language could somehow be... manageable...
The bolded part about the Talking Heads letting the listener project their own meaning on their lyrics reminds me of your blank canvas post. I love
My theory is that "making meaning" is a basic activity that we are drawn to as humans. It's what we do.
Language & Words are limiting from time to time we need to expand, spread our wings, breach the realm of language and sing a NIGGUN...
This suggests that we are all the creators of our own worlds. The question is what are we trying to create?
Thanks Derek...Again you've come up with something that makes people think,especially when it comes to lyrics.
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree Derek.
I think there's definitely a reason behind it when you decide to take your bike instead of the bus and the the bus is involved in an accident. I don't believe the cosmos is some random, cosmic dog's breakfast. I think that "To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven."
It's a nice post and a nice thought, but of course, pure fantasy. Did you know that free will was created by ecclesiastical fiat? It had been a minor subject of philosophical debate before that, but it wasn't until the church declared people had free will (Christianity would be a theological disaster without it, think about it) that we took it for granted that we actually do. Being never a Christian, nor a member of its bastard step-child, existentialism, I can't see it.
It's all fated, my friend. Not down to what colour socks you'll wear on Thursday or how many cigarettes you'll smoke, but the rest? Oh yes. I sincerely wish I couldn't prove that. I can. So could you, if you decided to, but if you're happy believing what you believe, far be it from me to discourage. Just know where it comes from.
Sounds a little like the first verse from the Tao Te Ching:
1. The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.
The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.
Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.
Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.
Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding.
Yes...when I was younger, I read the book by Ezra Pound called "The Chinese Written Character as a Medium for Poetry". It's a tiny little book with 45 amazing pages of insight and wonder. I think you would love it...I know you would.
In the late 90's I wrote a song called "The Poison Pillow" the words were mostly random. But there are several female fans of the old band that swear the song is about them and that it's a tell all. Too funny.
Love and Light Brother!
Just caught this TED Talk from Daniel Tammet that speaks right on this except with numeric value and words in a way, how he perceives meaning in them:
http://youtu.be/Pzd7ReqiQnE
Derek In one of my first jobs an older mentor used to throw copies of inidivdual slides down a stair case and I had to then give an understandable presentation based on the order in which they fell ... a few years later I read (can't remember where but in a creativity book) that Alexander Graham Bell's lab assistants would make forced comparisons that were similar - he would send them to town asking them to make a list of 6 to 12 items they saw on the street - tear the list in half on their return and then ask them to invent something new ...
I think this is one of the greatest challenges we face as human beings and also what makes us human. Not only do we apply meaning to our words - but we also assume that you have the same meaning I have. Which can lead to all kinds of misunderstandings.
And then, when we find out that someone else applies a different meaning to a word (say, for example, the word God), then we can create all kinds of tsouris because of course, my meaning is right - and yours isn't.
And underneath all of this lies a foundational belief that your beliefs are actually right, real, or true. I've found it much more valuable to believe that NO beliefs are right/real/true. And if that's the case - your beliefs are no better than mine. But also no worse.
And it becomes a question of - does the meaning you're choosing work for you? As opposed to are your beliefs RIGHT?
Hi, I recommend reading Carl Jung's foreword to the english version of The I Ching:
http://www.iging.com/intro/foreword.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Ching
Derek, Back in the 1970's I wrote a single line to a song. Then my sister added a line. We went back and forth and then recorded the song and as a joke performed it. The words seemed to stray with no focus or sense. Yet a few people expressed that the song fit their life exactly. To this day I still don't know what they mean!
Thanks for the post!
That video link to the Double Rainbow guy cracked me up. I think he voided his bowels at the end, after he went into shock.
Did he just bust out of prison, Shawshank-style? Very intense.
I only thought I understood what I think you meant
...
Yes interesting how a few words can lead to several levels of thinking...
Very Best Regards,
George
excellent and useful thread. thanks derek!
I disagree... What was your intent behind writing this? That's "meaning." Could you really hope people would get meaning out of meaninglessness? That's nonsense. Then why write it at all. The Talking Heads wrote their song with intent... That's "meaning" too.
FACTS:
There is meaning.
There is intent.
There is purpose.
There is rhythm.
There is rhyme.
There is random.
There is REAL.
There is the imagined.
There is perception and misperception.
There is design.
There is feeling.
There is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, and self control.
There is also the opposite.
There is that which is true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, excellent, and praiseworthy.
There is also the opposite.
Yes my friend... there is meaning!
It's why your so gifted with thinking, and innovation, and it's why you share your insights.
I challenge you to rethink this. My bet is that you'll have a completely different perspective in 20 years. Just like you do now about things you thought 20 years ago.
I must agree with Greg O. And I do love what you do, Derek, but...
If you say, "Nothing has inherent meaning," that must include the statement, "Nothing has inherent meaning." It is self refuting.
If that were true, then there really isn't any reason for a couple hundred people to share their thoughts on here. We might as well pick words out of a jar and post them. (may be entertaining for a bit, but tiresome after just a few).
I am thankful for the artists that work hard to convey their ideas. That is what I relate to. Stories. Everybody has one. And I want to hear it.
My band now is much more collaborative in our songwriting. For example, I may write a verse and my bass player may write a chorus and when I reflect on the content it takes on an even more profound meaning than I could have imagined.
The random approach is very inspiring and to think that our creative energies are in synchronicity gives it that much more meaning!
Thanks again Derek!
Patrick
I enjoyed this one Derek, particularly because I am in Xian right now and headed to Beijing tomorrow....or am I reading something into all of this that just not really matter and perhaps you don't really care if I responded to your article anyway!
Derek,
The timing of your note and idea is classic for me, after having just attended a Relationship Boot Camp in Boston this weekend..www.terryreal.com for more information
Words like art are subjective and individual to the observer. We chose how to percieve or " Make Up" what we hear. This can be done in a positive light or a negitive one.. each of us has a choice on how to recieve it then process it leading to a reaction.
Thanks Derek for the positive renfocement of what I have just learned. I have contracted with myself to live relationally, trying to understand, cope with the negitive, keep the positive in check, and work toward the middle ground where health and balance is found.
Inherent meaning or not, the appearance of a rainbow means two things: that it has rained, and that is near dusk. As for the Talking Heads lyrics, the nonesensical verses were deliberate according to Byrne. To Stop Making Sense, so to speak. Much akin to our friends in Washington who spin words faster than Rumplestiltskin spins straw into gold.
Facinating!
"Nothing has inherent meaning"?
Can't agree with that one-because it's just not true.Well ok it's a half truth. But is a half truth enough for you Derek? Come on-you're
a bright guy with integrity.But what's missing in your analysis?
Thanks for the article.
Joseph S.
the chinese written language is a fucking headache plus.
most chinese women & food are a sensual joy
we are all part of the great orange jello blob
we & others create the mold(s) we title self.
this is all we need to know
unless you want to know some more stuff
and that's ok, in fact we are all ok
Nicely done Derek. So what about when something literal happens. Like something which even if circumstances could be presented in thousands of ways, the result still remains the same. Such as what if someone walks up in front of a group of people and shoots someone to death. There could be any number of variables which caused it, good or bad, but the death is a literal thing. The only way past the literal is the spiritual. Once that is introduced then the first part of the theory fails because then a spiritual person may believe things happen for a reason beyond their understanding, but that coincidence isn't always coincidence. I only bring this up not to refute what is a beatiful essay by you (I agree one of your best) but where it might lead to a discussion on things literal rather than interpretive. Definitely thought provoking. Thanks for that! -Brian
Dear Derek:
I do believe humans have created (in their own mind) both bad meanings to items, things, and events, as well as good, and it perfectly explains superstitions, including horseshoes and the number seven. After all, black cats, whom some people fear so much they will run them over rather than let them cross the road in front of them, were not the original bad guy in England. The cats they feared were white! Our fears and our own dismal outlook on life often lead to the very things we fear. Who knows perhaps my deep belief in the possibility of seeing a opossum, while I was visiting my daughter in Connecticut, lured the tiny cute baby I saw out into the open. All I know is it happened in broad daylight on a beach--not in a wildlife preserve! He/she crawled slowly out to where I was taking pictures of the sea, and then, after I spotted it about 3-4 feet from me, it just as slowly retreated. I have photographic proof of this event--those cute button-black eyes, white fur, pink nose. That moment, more than any other, sticks in my mind as evidence of belief in action. Perhaps we should always believe in our impossible opossum dreams, so to speak. Anger, denial, and a completely dedicated belief in your own failure will result in a totally dedicated failure.
funny thing is.....
'language = words + 5 + mouth'
makes such perfect sense that I would be ( and AM ) delighted with the connection and THEN delighted with the added nugget of information that "Naw ... it's just the way we speak!" - and then it all becomes a small, cosmic expression of humour....which the Universe shares and - hey presto - another layer of 'meaning'
Hooray for your trains of thought, Derek
Love the Chinese stuff! Pictures and motion and meaning.
My favorite is the Traditional character for Listen: 聽
It is wondering because in writing it, and knowing the parts, it TELLS you HOW to listen.
聽 is made up of an 耳 ear, a 心 heart, and two 目 eyes. Yes, this is how you really listen. Use your eyes, ears and heart!
中文是很棒!
Very profound Derek. You amaze me with your insights. You are one of my favorite people in the world. I'm faced with this question after reading this though, what do you do with Jesus? His life is one of the most documented ever. He appeared to fulfill 333 Old Testament prophecies and on the cross reminded them by giving the religious leaders the beginning line of Psalm 22 which laid out another few that were being fulfilled right in front of their eyes. The odds of one man doing so is astronomical. So, what meaning do you assign Jesus and His life? Also, you posted this on the anniversary of my birth... I assign deep meaning to that.
Can't wait to read your book.
Lesson 2 from "A Course in Miracles," states
"I have given everything I see in this room (on this street, from this window, in this place) all the meaning that it has for me."
For me the interesting part is that I, me, nobody else has given everything the meaning it has for me. So, I really can't blame anyone for the way I choose to see things.
Thanks for this post.
David Bowie is also well known for having written most of his songs in such a manner... I wouldn't be surprised if David Byrne was a big Bowie fan, but would never presume that to be a fact and mean nothing by saying it other than it has been a widely adopted way of constructing a songs lyrics by some of the most renowned artists.
Personally I wrote some songs about love desired, love attained and love lost, but mostly hoped to make the world a less volatile place to live and wrote songs of that ilk. CDBaby commented "If you like John Lennon you'll like this artist."
This is not a boast and neither do I claim my appraoch to lyrics is inherently any more or less valid or of value than any other approach. My life experiences determined the songs that came of me as those from others are inevitable of theirs and them.
'Projection' as considered in psychology, while appreciated as inevitable of whoever considering whatever whenever, is nevertheless not necessarily as innocuous as the kind you and most of the comments are meaning.
Projection goes on all the time and yet the person projecting can be blind to the fact they are actually merely presuming those they are projecting themselves on to and not deliberating facts.
For example people usually project upon/presume those they've only just met invariably to get a handle on whoever so they have a relation point. In such a way according to the individuals specific and/or stereotypical preconceptions and prejudices [bracketing/ compartmentalising/ boxing all the while], they determine how they will be with whomever... their meaning being synonymously attributed accordingly.
In this way, according to general assumptions and subjective meanings presumed, of and projected upon another's looks, age, gender, colour, creed whatever, people will usually deliberate and decide a character, level of intelligence etc. and meaning for every person they meet and all in a matter of seconds.
Their decision on these presumptions/ their projection, thereby determines how they relate to whoever. All of it is presumed and so nothing more than a figment of that persons imagination.
This projection therefore, by the way they are with whomever they have presumed however, actually serves to reveal their character, intellect, prejudices and predisposition and has no value in regards to knowing anything about the person they have projected themselves on to. Most assume they are presuming correctly of whoever, they don't even think they can be, let alone are, in error. Therefore in this context people need to be wise to and wary of this type of projection.
It's a sign
The chinese language fascinates me - I can never quite get how anyone could possibly read something that crams so much information into something so complex.
You are right about it being rather poetic, but I do wonder how anyone could skim read something like that.
I've barely started learning, but eventually it's as natural as knowing “8” is eight. 女 is woman, 月 is moon, 手 is hand, etc. Easier than you'd expect. Try it! -- Derek
not quite ... randomness is actually perceived as nothingness, dull boredom .. see the image of a TV set (the old ones!) w/o an antenna ... or an out-or-tune radio. That is how randomness looks (or sounds) like. Attributing meaning to pseudo-random events may be the cognitive task of a mind pairing with the same self-organizing natural principle that creates itself.
Applying meaning to things helps us put things in context and understand life. At some point you become a superstitious nut, though.
The Chinese and Japanese languages have large alphabets and a lot of information and characters. Too much for me personally..
Great information about the Chinese language, images and characters, did you spend some time over there Derek?
Not long in China, but I've been studying Chinese part-time for a few years. And it's one of the official languages of Singapore, so it's all around me now. -- Derek