Not happy with existing venues? Make a new one.
2009-10-07
Gary Jules was a musician in Los Angeles who wished there was a Hollywood venue more friendly to musicians. A place where people would come to listen, not talk over the music. A place to play, not showcase.
Because there were no venues like that, he decided to make a new one.
He noticed a little coffee shop on Cahuenga. A perfect middle-of-Hollywood location that had no music.
He asked if he could play there on Tuesday nights, and bring his own crowd and sound system. They let him.
Soon he was inviting his favorite artists as opening acts, and hosting a weekly songwriter's circle, too.
It was going well, so he left his PA system there full-time, and started booking great artists every night.
There was one big rule: no talking during playing. Audiences were warned not to talk, and performers would even stop the show if someone did. (“You can go anywhere else in LA to talk over the music. Not here.”)
Within a couple months, the coffee shop didn't even open during the day anymore. They are now one of the best music venues in Hollywood, The Hotel Café, and world-famous artists play there every night.
(To be clear: Gary only did this in 2002 and 2003. By the end of 2003, he had a #1 UK hit with “Mad World”. The Hotel Café owners, Marko and Max, deserve all credit for its amazing growth since then.)
Anyway, the real point is not Gary or Hotel Café, but this:
If you're not happy with any of the existing players in “the industry”, don't limit your options to what already exists. You can make a new venue, a new store, or anything else.
bands don't have leverage if a venue decides to cancel or screw them out of money - it happens to all of us, far too often. we definitely need to group together to figure out solutions for this.
i'd love to start new venues, but i want to focus on my music and performing. anything outside of that is a necessary evil i'll do if i have to ;-)
I'd love to have the Disney castle as a venue..
Inspiring! thanks Derek
Be the change you want to see.
So much more effective than whining.
Cool idea. I've done similar things acoustically, playing places that never had music. I wonder how you scale it up for a loud rock band?
Find a warehouse that's usually closed at night? -- Derek
Perfect ! Perfect ! Perfect !
I believe that a lot of Artist are going to have too do this in the near future, I know here in the Mid-West the places to play where people actually come to listen to the band and the music are close to Zero!
this was good to hear, Derek.
a few months back we ran into the same thing in Olympia, Wa. so we found a great space, (part of the old K Records studio) and worked a deal with the owner. we're producing shows there once a month, creating a built-in draw and bringing in artists from around the state.
thanks, it's always good to hear encouraging perspectives.
I had enough with crappy gigs a few years ago so I decided to finally start having shows at all the beautiful, natural amphitheatres all around town, starting with the creek by my house. I call them Secret Stages: Here's explanation, video, and pics: http://jasonmolin.net/2008/06/20/new-kind-of-gig-secret-stages/
Awesome! Perfect example. Thanks Jason! -- Derek
Your absolutely right Derek! No artist should ever limit themselves in showcasing their talent or just basically performing where convenient simply because of the popularity other artists/bands have made a place or venue, step up & think outside of the box & create a place suited to you & your audience, your musicians how hard can that be? seek & ye shall find
We did this at a little coffee shop in our small town and it seemed to go well. We established a small but faithful group of patrons. However I think I burnt out, with hauling gear in and out, re-arranging the place, putting up the posters etc. I would do it again but I would need some volunteers on board to help with that. I actually booked other artists as well and they really appreciated it. I made some new friends so that can't be bad.
This is very true. I hadda experience this year in which I worked out a deal like that with an existing restaurant/bar that was starting. Instead of setting up the band and hoping my following shows up, I booked all my friends and closed the show with my own band. $5 cover charge paid for the sound setup and band, and it was a success! We still do it every so often at this venue and they ALWAYS appreciate what we do for their business.
Agreed, Derek. One thing I will say in this example though, is it is the rare case of a venue with a new idea succeeding. Venues are a notoriously challenging business to run successfully. I suspect it helps to have another business as the anchor (coffee shop, bar, etc.).
The core idea is sound - don't kvetch and moan about a crappy situation - take your idea for new and better and try to do something with it!
I like the no talking part best.
YES -- two music festivals have sprung up in Arizona over the past few years. One is the Live Music Festival at Boyce Thompson Arboretum State Park (I helped start this one) and the other is the Ranching & Mining Music Festival in Peeples Valley (started by Carol Pearse of Whistlestop Bluegrass).
Both were started in response to a need for more musical events in our genre. The same holds true for venues.
Right on the money, Derek, just do it.
Here's another gig I did on the campus where I work, for my coworkers, in a great little spot by the creek: pics and audio http://jasonmolin.net/2009/05/21/concert-by-waller-creek-on-ut-campus/
house concerts anyone?
Loved the article. There is more music available than decent venues or venues that don't showcase the same old crap all the time. So point well taken.
That picture of Cinderella's castle is great. Snow White's at D-Land looks just as beautiful now thanks to the marvel that is LED lighting. Love where this stuff is going!
The Hotel Cafe is a great venue - I've enjoyed a couple of times. It would be cool to have a world music venue here in Los Angeles area.
Maybe one day!
Yea, it is hard to find a place to play. Esp. in the style I do. Lately, I even had some tell me, they refuse to consider listening to or using my music for Film/TV unless I preform live. Hum, in the style I play, Live? Where? I gave it a try local, no go. Unless I wanted to spend hundreds renting, back to the pay to play like LA is so fond of. So, I found a place. A western set we have been building that we also use for some of our music videos. I am putting in a stage there this Thursday for the first offical live gig for us this Sat, 10th Oct at The Soledad Guest Ranch, Next to the KOA CampGrounds in Acton CA, 6 pm to 8 pm. I plan on at least 2 to 4 performances a year, film it of course and use the same area for others in my style, New Age and even a Blues Festival for spring next year. Tell them "pay to play" folks to bite me. ;-) unless they want to buy some of my music.
I think us indies are just going to have to what ever it takes to get our work out. A strong will would go far too of course.
Dale
Inquisitor Betrayer
Established clubs end up being hang outs after a while. But the clubs that only open up for shows is where you find the folks actually there to here the music most of the time. Sometimes the best way to get something done is to do it yourself! As described above. Great artical!
Chris...
I wonder what happened to that 'no talking' rule at the Hotel Cafe ... time to start a new venue!
Thanks Derek.
I have that kind of idea since several years in Paris.
A long time ago, around 1970, in Paris, we had a famous Hotenany, each week, in a place call "The American center", boulevard Raspail, near Montparnasse, and almost all the singers who became famous later, began there.
If some parisian musicians-singers read this and are interested, please contact me.
We had the same idea years back which is this. Often you can get a Holiday Inn, etc to GIVE you the room and you GIVE the Holiday Inn the food and drinks revenues. The band sells tickets and keeps the door(ticket) money and the hotel keeps the drinks and food money. With local advertising by word of mouth or at gigs you can drum up a lot of your followers. The plus side is if you can get the hotel to do a cheap room in the deal so people won't need to drive after the party. It works...we did it.
Back in 1984 I lived in Oxford and there was nowhere decent to play for a small-medium band. We built a stage that folded into a trailer and wrote to all the councils in the country and that summer did gigs in parks and fairs. A year later we started the "Mad Hatter's Club" above a pub (Jericho Tavern) and managed to get the brewery to finance a LP (vinyl in those days) with 4 local bands on it.
When it was closed down due to someone complaining of noise (they had just converted an old warehouse next door into a house!) we campaigned with the council as it was the last music venue left in Oxford.
After a couple more years my music touring took over, but the Jericho Tavern still exists and Oxford Council can't do enough to help musicians since a few famous bands came from there (Swervedriver & Ride both played the Jericho tavern)
My best venues are my fans' living rooms. House concerts, the money is better, the sales are better, can weave a bigger story without a pa system objectifying the music. This summer also I busked a lot of farmer's markets, and on the street with my daughter. A more diverse audience than we ever get in a folk club. Also we did music for a church service three times, and I sang 3 hospice sessions for a woman with brain cancer - by far the most rewarding gig of my life.
Sounds like the New York loft scene in the 1970s. It was done here, and in Paris in the 1920s. I guess it's time for L.A. to do it now.
exactly. In my little truck, with my little sound system, to the little bar, to the next bigger bar with better focus and an educated audience, to the bigger venue, to radio and media. I've seen them come and go. Name and owner changes, Bless whoEVER takes a chance on opening a venue that has music 7 nights a week.
Can you list the best in your area?
Atlanta - EDDIE'S ATTIC
Athens Ga - The Melting Point
Great Story! It has sparked ideas...
I'd like to add....
If you can't find a venue get out on the street and busk.
We got our first record contract when Joe Boyd bought a CD off us when busking in Portabello Market (we'd sent him the same cassette a year before with no response)
Not suitable for all types of music, but you're playing to real people, many of who would never even go to a gig and some will really like it - and buy CDs
Just get out and play!!
Hey, its tough for a lot of performers out there, including this one. It was just a little sad that your first comment on this uplifting story was a negative poo-poo. Nothing against the poster, we all feel that way. I'm starting to look forward to these to lift me up as I continue to pursue my goals in this business.
so, you got me thinking/dreaming... thanks... that's the best thing you can do for me! ;=)
LOVE this!! Am planning on creating a late-night venue in Salt Lake City, where I just moved to, as a home for live and online-streaming music for my music and other musicians. This is just the shot in the arm I need to prove my dream possible! Thanks
I had something to say about the subject...but i forgot that while giving my e-mail addresss! laughs...sorry, folks...
Thanks Derek,
How about just this...
Don't limit your options. Some audiences are boring as shit. Take them all with a smile.
lane
It sounds good, but who pays BMI and ASCAP? Many of the places we used to play have either stopped having live music all together, or severely cut back because BMI and ASCAP (and in one case RIAA) have come around demanding thousands of dollars to allow live music to be performed there. I would have no problem with this, except that the money does not seem to go to musicians: in all the years I've been doing this I have never met a musician or songwriter who got a penny from any of these organizations. It also doesn't matter if you're playing your own music. Even Jimmy Buffet can't walk into a restaurant with a guitar and play Margaritaville unless the place is paying the royalties. These organizations are in the process of destroying live entertainment venues, in my view.
I walked across Ireland with my spouse and our dear friends and what we found at Westport and Galway were clubs that featured big live stages for amplified music and a bar for mixing, talking, dancing; then down the hall was another bar for chatting and beyond that was a room with acoustic music: guitar, bodran, fiddle, acordian, flute players all gathered in a very tight circle and the crowd pressed in close to them. The room was packed. lots of smoking and beer drinking. And listening. No one dared interrupt the magic that was taking place in that room that night. It can happen. I've seen it, heard it. The coffee houses with their milk steamers and grinders make for a noisy and distracting place to play, but they are entreprenurial and very sweet people, everyone. Enjoy the moment, you never know whose life you will change with one of your songs.
Great story! To some extent I've tried that but the Cleveland scene is commonly know as The Cleveland Thing .... stubborn to the point of ignorance. Am I insulting Clevelanders? Actually no ... several other Clevelanders I have spoken noticed the same thing. A close-mindedness to new thoughts, ideas and improvements. Its a big hurdle. The Barn in Elyria started out somewhat like this ... a new venue in a beat up old barn with no heat or cooling. The owner has had jazz, blues, rock and even big band. Not much of a place you say ... then why have such greats as Buddy Miles and Robert Lockwood, Jr. amongst others player here? Maybe the ambiance. Maybe the fact that unlike in The Hotel Café the atmosphere is casual, come as you are, and you can wander in and out as you please, and BYOB. Many thanks to Dana Clark, store manager at Guitar Center in North Olmsted for turning us on to this cool place ... this cool venue. And only now has it become more mainstream since the Cleveland Plain Dealer ran a story on The Barn. And I thought I was special getting an invite as it was invite only at the time. Cool .... Boss ... Rad
House Concerts!!!
Amazing for both artists, hosts and audience!
I've seen folks do this with varying degrees of success. Restaurants, bars, coffee shops, churches/temples, warehouses... One thing I love to do with our band is try and play a new venue every time. It makes the music sound different and our fans appreciate the diversity of venues. Publicity and sound can become more difficult but the more you do it the easier it gets.
OK ... caught my typo but hey if Joe Walsh can do it so can I ... The Smoker You Drink, The Player You Get
My friend, talented singer Sarah Donner did that, in the Princeton, NJ area, started about three years ago. It's called Indie Music Night-- http://www.myspace.com/indiemusicnight
She never made a no talking rule, but people don't. It's my favorite place. I'm playing there in March.
When a local CD store owner attempted to do something similar he told me that he ran into problems in terms of insurance. He ultimately quit doing it. Whenever I think of running a place to do music in I always wonder about liability. So now I like this model because someone else has to deal with those headaches.
Hey Graydon Holden! I need to talk to you!!!! gregparke@gregparke.com
No DOUBT THIS WOULD WORK, IT JUST
DEPENDS WHERE YOU ARE IN THIS WORLD
WHERE I AM THEY ONLY WANT COUNTRY
MUSIC, AND IT DID WORK FOR AWHILE,
I JOINED IN BUT COUNTRY MUSIC ISNT
MY FORTE, I STILL LOOK AROUND WHERE
I AM BUT THE OTHER PLACES ARE JUST
FOR LOUD MOUTHED FOOTBALLERS, WHO
WOULDNT GIVE YOU THE TIME OF THE DAY
ITS NOT THEIR FORTE, BUT SURE DEPENDING WHERE YOU ARE LOCATED
IT WORKS
Derek,
You're inspirational as always. A few of us have done that here in DC. It is pretty simple actually. Some places already have a PA and mixer for their regular DJ nights, but with other places it is more of a DIY situation (many musicians own PAs so this isn't too difficult to set up). It works out well either way, and some of our local artists prefer creating such venues a few blocks from where they live.
-Lou
Not sure about "no talking during performance" rule - why force people to pay attention like that? If your performance is capturing enough to get everybody interested, there's going to be no talking anyway... On the other hand, why not establish your own rules on your own territory? If you come to visit - respect the host
Overall, I really like the idea. I work (play music and DJ) at the hippest place in South Brooklyn - Downhouse Lounge - the owners of which are super-friendly towards musicians and DJs that play there. From the very beginning, their focus was true creativity instead of pleasing an average customer. In turn, musicians and DJs have been putting the best of their creative efforts into the venue for the last three years (I've joined a year ago). As a result, the place now has truly unique atmosphere created by the best music, on the one hand, and cool appreciating crowd on the other. And yeah, business-wise the venue's a success, believe it or not 
I do this regularly in Baltimore. I ask a bar for their worst night - usually a Tuesday, and run an open mic with a host band. That usually grows into 4 or 5 really good bands that work the night and then move to the weekends.
either that or just rent the club out for the night instead of negotiating for a piece of one of the clubs nights. Dress the place up for your own night. Give it a name and a vibe. Give them the upfront money and take the whole door. Let them have the bar.
Right on. Any form of "success" is tied to being a responsible LEADER.
You're right Derek, Why complain about the way things are, Why should we just settle for things the way they are. Believe in yourself and "Do your own thing", but do it Right, do it Better, but most important, Do It !!!
ABSOLUTELY! We've been four walling small theaters for years. Since our music doesn't fit into the bar band circuit. It's more concert/theater oriented, it just made sense to us along time ago to do this. In fact, when I was still in high school, I would hookup with a few other bands who wanted to do shows but were too young to play the "big" rooms and we would rent out a catering ballroom for the night. Then we'd sell tickets like crazy to all our friends and their friends and before you knew it were rockin' the wedding hall. Of course that was in the late seventies before everyone wanted to sue you for something. Today, one MUST remember to get that SPECIAL EVENT LIABILITY INSURANCE. NO Questions. GET IT! It's not too expensive but will cover you in the event of some unfortunate accident at the gig. (that's why they call it an accident)
Good luck to you all and thanks as always Derek.Blue Eagle
I'm glad you posted this Derek, some classical musicicans worked that for themselves, and friends, they opened a a small concert place in center Paris, France a few years ago, it's growing, check this out!
http://www.vissidarte.fr/
Greatt idea, I think musicians and bands should come together and refuse to pay a fee to a venue to play. In Dublin Ireland some venues charge the band €500 before even plugging in your guitar. I think this pay to play started in L.A back in the 80,s. its time to reverse this, the venues make enough on the drink.. lets boycott any venue in the world that charge a musician to play
I'm glad to hear that worked out for him, but really between running the websites, social sites, cold calling, managing releases, writing and recording, studio work ..I can't even imagine how he found the time. He must be SUPERINDIE
Derek! Excellent Point! That's why we love having www.saguijo.com/calendar.php over here - it's all about the MUSIC!
Thanks Derek!
@Mike Danilin: If people come to a venue because they want to hang out and talk with their friends, it doesn't matter how captivating your performance is. You're part of the atmosphere. And that's perfectly fair. But if you set up listen-only gigs, the socializers can choose to go elsewhere, giving the listeners a chance to listen without distractions.
So how does this apply to "recording only" artists?
The venue was just one example. You can use your imagination to apply it to whatever dissatisfactions you'd like to solve in your own life. -- Derek
How is it you always know the right things to say? I think I'm in like, in-love and, love, Mary Ann
I'm a solo piano artist and I love doing concerts at piano stores. They are very intimate (around 100 people) and no one talks during the performance. You can here a pin drop. The piano stores love it because it brings potential customers into their stores.
I also love doing house concerts. The people are there for you and your music. Great way to interact with your fans.
And of course, my favorite coffeeshop did exactly that themsleves: not musicians looking to create a venue, but them creating a welcoming place for musicians to play once a week, and a place in general for people to gather over coffee. Make special note of the "for people to gather" part of that (not rush in, buy coffee and be herded out).
Thanks Derek!
I thought I was the only independent Artist that felt this way! We're the music makers here in society and must continue an outlet for our music. Thank goodness for changes.We have "Make Music New York" where any and all musicians,Artists can play in venues all over New York on the 1st day of summer each year.(Started originally in France over 25 years ago).
Some time ago we did a simular format you mentioned Derek with a Club owner for 6 months every Tuesday night we had live entertainment:Live bands,Rappers,Comedians and Poets.It then branched to Tues. & Saturdays w/ multi genres of music, The club owners were pleased with the ideas and good business.However, they decided to retire and the club went up for store space available. It was good and I would do it again in a heartbeat!
I recently attended a concert by the great British guitarist Adrian Legg. He mentioned that he had a tape which he would ask venues to play before his performance. It was a recording of people talking, no music. Because, he said, music is not for the background.
It is sad that people think that it is, especially live music.
Hey, we opened as a House Concert venue in 2001 and gave many many musicians a break. I wanted somewhere my friends could play and I could hear them without the noise, crap and smoke. It worked!
I'm taking a short break but we'll be open again and I sell as many of my CD's there as anywhere else, I just play it during the intermission....
The truth is that we are constantly having to refresh and re-invent. That's how we grow and flourish, not by ossifying and becoming static. So it is likewise that business entities are born, grow, flourish, but perhaps must necessarily fade, and pass on the torch to others, although through the fondness of our experiences we may hate to see them go.
The best gig I ever did was a gig that I put on at Manchester lane in Melbourne for all the streeet performers and buskers. We all did our own thing. We had musicians clowns artists, and I still get people coming up to me on the street and saying it was the best gig they have ever been to. i'm in LA atthe moment and have checked out McCaibes which is a cool venue. It's funny that you have to hire out the venues here, I was talking to a friend and said that if your hiring out a venue, why not spend that money on a recording studio and record it live, invite your friends to donate some money to come in and give them a free cd at the end. Thats what I'm going to do if I ever move here. Get other bands to play. Make it a regular thing, have it go out over the internet as well. People can buy cyber seats.
When I came here I did find a lot of the venue organisers a bit rude and yes it is all about showcasing but it doesn't have to be that way, and if I move here it sure won't be for me. we all desserve an enviroment we can flourish in so yeah we should just make it.
Glad this blog arose...i was hoping to share my serious disappointment with the "new regime" at CDBABY. Poor communication and organizational chaos pretty much sums it up. To bad you can't go back ...just temporarily...and straighten them out. It would make your bike trip through India alot more satisfying knowing that you helped a quarter million struggling artists.(yes, that's a pseudo guilt trip i'm shooting for
) Probably the LAST thing you would want to do though now that it's not "Your Baby" anymore....
Inspiring indeed. Thank you for this, I did not know Gary was involved in this before that hit he had.
I always dream and create the picture/ venue I want and jump into it. There are no rules, only beliefs.
Living the dream daily...
Thanks Derek for your inspirational ideas. I have given a lot of thought about setting up in a small city. Keep up the good work.
Rasool
There has been a venue in Dallas, TX like this for 32 years:
http://poordavidspub.com/#policys
Definitely a good post and great idea - in fact, one of my colleagues and fellow artists (Matt Irvin, Canopy Records) started doing house concerts in his apartment in NYC. The trend has certainly picked up in this corner of the world...
We boycott pay to play, but that's means every bar in our city unless you are a cover band.
So it doesn't leave us much choice and we sure don't have money to open a venue ourselves.
But people keep asking us when they can come see us play, so we rented a place in a desert park with a stage and are throwing a party Oct 16th as matter of fact.
If no one would pay to play it would go away.
I used to get paid to play my original music in venues in Chicago back in the early 80s before the P2P mob took over and the places would be packed.
Plus I'd put on a 1 1/2 hour show, not this 30 minute BS where you are just warming up.
If the owners would stop being lazy and hire bands themselves like they used too this would have never taken such a stronghold.
Plus who wants to pay $10 to see a band play for 30 minutes with overpriced drinks too???
Then the few friends they could drag in all leave and the next band sets up and a few of their friends show up for an audience.
It's either that or all the bands who P2P regularly in certain venues hang out there too and they are about the only audience.
WTF has happened?
I stopped booking into clubs and other traditional venues years ago and began playing in art galleries and art and theater events.
In the past year I teamed up with a theatrical organization and we've been integrating the more out there aspects of what I'd been doing in our productions. While working with the writer and performers, the music has taken on a new dimension.
It has been an amazing learning experience for me to be in on how they find venues, sponsors, other artists, from musicians, sculptors, painters and other manner of performing artists. Through going outside the usual paths, I've found myself on a creative journey infinitely more rewarding than the usual slog on the road.
I think any successful artist does this even if they don't realize it at the time. Something other than the music tends to bring people in but once the assess are in the seats the music makes fans. Every show is a gamble.
Yup! That's exactly what we did here in Cold Spring, NY! We call it The Listening Room. It's at Whistlin' Willie's a local restaurant, and people do listen. I put in a sound system. My buddy Ken Veltz runs it. Artists come from all over. It's a great place to play and the audience continues to grow. (Sometimes I even get to play or listen when they let me out of the studio for a night.) Come listen. Or come play!
http://www.myspace.com/thelisteningroomny
(Thanks, Derek! As I always say, you totally rock.)
Another thought-provoking article.Here In Australia its already been done, many years ago by one of our more famous jazz exports, a band called Galapogus Duck. They opened the 'original' Basement venue in Sydney, which has long since moved to a venue which went on to become Sydney's premier club for live music, and is now under different ownership, and that band had been very successful, and I guess they had the money to do it. I was recently talking to another very successful Aussie artist, a very young and talented roots performer. I expressed concern to him that there may not be too many more venues for younger artists to play, too which he responded that 'a muso will always find somewhere to play', and your story bears that out! I've heard about the p2p thing outta the states, its not as common here, but may only be a matter of time.......at least we have our defences in place when it arrives, and if it does, it may well strengthen our resolve to work a way around it! Cheers, RW.
"if you have a lemon make a lemonade!" What an inspiring story ! Thank you, Derek !
Not happy with existing venues? Make a new one. Why not? That is what Derek Sivers did!
I tried really hard to get some local restaurants and coffee shops to have some live music, I even offered to play for FREE.
Most all of them turned me down because, when I asked why, they said they didn't want to pay the royality fee to ASCAP & BMI, in order to let performers do other artists material.
They said they had been warned they could get into big trouble if they let artists come in and do cover material.
I always thought a Venue with a P.A. permanently set up, with the mic's in cages in un movable apropriate positions would make a "busking" type Venue situation very easy for electric bands, instead of removing all the mic. gear everytime the Band changes, the next could just place there instruments, amps etc. in front of the fixed mic's
Wow! What a great story! Thank you so much Derek. You always share such wonderful information with us.
Best wishes for continued success & prosperity.
Jacnique
www.jacnique.net
Free downloads on my site!
that's what the music business is all about, lets all think back to when our friend Derek started the baby, an idea to make things better for musicians, all the best
Gary!!!
Thanks for sharing Derek, it's always refreshing to hear clear, open thinking.. I don't know if it was growing up in the 70's or if it was my enviroment, but I've always thought you could do anything you wanted given talent, ambition, & time- it's just a matter of finding the right place to show what you have to offer.
I'm happy that I've chosen to follow my happiness (music-making)-& I have no regrets from doing so: the returns keep on surprising me. People are drawn to folks who are doing what they enjoy, and want to share that with them.
Wasn't there a post about a violinist in a subway station?
And nobody cared?
That was Johsua Bell in a subway, but more of an academic experiment on context tried once to see if people would stop to listen to a famous classical musician on a Stradivarius violin in that context. Very interesting. -- Derek
I've been creating venues since 1991, from the Women's Writing & Spoken Word Series at Robin's Bookstore (2002-2006) to the Black Women's Arts Festival (the Rotunda and other venues 2003-present). I received an award for my "work in art and change" from the Leeway Foundation which gives money to women and trans artists.
I'm glad to see that there are lots of folks out there doing the same thing - creating the world we want to live in. Thanks for always sharing positive new and exciting concepts, Derek
I like how you keep up with the positive ideas. Actually I've done just that a time or two and it went really well until the locations had to shut down. It's an awkward business for everyone involved.
I'm doing something similar to this. The 80,000 population city I live in Japan doesn't have a lot of places to play. So, I organized an open mic night for the local musicians to come and jam. The owner of the bar is thrilled because it's become one of his most reliant nights of customers and there's been some great jams and entertainment. I like the idea of introducing a "No Talking" rule.
The other thing I do once or twice a year is rent out the city community theatre and have a full band performance where I fly in a special guest or two from Canada to play with me. I have them stay at my house while I cover the cost of their flight. It has always sold out, the guest musicians have a ball playing in Japan, and the audience feels like they're getting some big time musicians. Despite the overhead and hard work to make it happen, I've always profited quite nicely and moreso, made some "super" fans.
Thanks for sharing Derek.
Kelly
About ten years ago, we were frustrated that there seemed to be no performing arts venue in the Florida Keys that was not also a bar, required performing hours of Buffet for tourists, or had you playing to a salad bar.
Some friends got together and (long long story short) we built an unique,world class public venue, an amphitheater, right on the bay, and gave it to the town.
Sometimes there are angels that see the value of arts. And they write checks or offer construction companies, or both. When the project is ready the money arrives...;-)
Fast forward a few years and now we have a thriving music and arts community with an amazing venue that attracts all sorts of performances throughout the year. Rock, Reggae, Island, Folk, Jazz, Dance, Theater, Public events, Yoga classes, etc...
All because a tiny group of artists wanted it badly enough.
It is always amazing how the universe answers our focused desires.
Dave
Hillbillyflamenco.com
Derek's essay reminds me of Cy Timmons, whom I recall took the money he made from "Delta is ready when you are" (1968?) and started a restaurant in Atlanta so he would never be without a place to perform. Turned out that it also provided steady work to artists (as restaurant workers) who were trying ti make ends meet while developing their craft. My recollection is that Timmons, usually just himself singing with his guitar, would often play his middle set with a conga player who doubled as one of the kitchen workers. That restaurant closed back in 1987, if I recall correctly. Hadn't thought about him for a long while, but discovered he can be found performing at Fressers restaurant up in Highlands, NC now, where he still plays 3 sets on Fridays and Saturdays, though is seems he's now a real estate agent by day.
http://www.cytimmonssings.com/
Thanks Derek, it´s a great idea, and from your article we can see that it´s totally posible.
thanks again
My band mates of Monkeyworks and I of course face the same challenges...here are two things that we and our friends made happen this year.
1) I approached the owner of a new movie theater and met with him to brainstorm what we could do to try to stir some additional interest in his new venture. One of the ideas I floated, was to have my band improvise film scores to silent movies - he loved the idea, we sold the room out, got written up in the Sunday NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/nyregion/02shownj.htm?_r=1 and we are doing it again this month.
2) It has been mentioned above me on this page; "house concerts". One of our friends has an amazing finished basement a subset of the band performed with another singer/songwriter to a "full house" of about 40 people who paid a cover charge & were totally immersed in what was happening musically - there was nothing second rate about the evening.
Keep swimming,
Steve
Wow, tons of great ideas here. Thanks everyone for sharing. On a somewhat related note... I have been selling physical CDs online through CD Baby for several years, plus digital downloads on their partner sites. What I'd really like to do is start selling downloads of individual songs and/or albums, without ever making a physical CD. Is my only option to start my own storefront, or is there a good website out there that offers this service? Thanks in advance for any ideas!
I like the point you're trying to make, using this venue creation idea as an example. No one gets anywhere by lying down and letting the status quo railroad all over them. I've always wondered why people complained about any facet of the music biz when energy would be better spent just making your own business model that has nothing to do with anything.
And that's my all-time favorite cover song; so cool to know that bit of info about Gary spearheading the performances!
Great story and I know that here in Australia a number of venues started just like that where someone walked into a place and asked the owners if they would to have live music.
Interesting timing you should bring this up.
As I sit here typing this I have a band (with no name yet) out on our rehearsal stage practicing away. Well... maybe not the same as actually starting a venue BUT in a way that is what it is becoming. More of a private showcase for bands that come here on a regular basis. We can only handle 25 to 30 people. But - the bands sure love playing here rather than all the crap they get "out there" And I sure can understand that having been playing since age 12. Things sure have changed with live music in the world out there. Most people just don't put forth the effort "out there" because they all seem so jadded.
This little rehearsal venue we have here gives bands a chance to sound really good and play in front of a select little crowd. Gives them a chance to learn before going out there. Actually - hell - I think they are getting spoiled. Wish we could handle more people. Maybe something will pan out where we can eventually.
Anyway - check it out on myspace.
Junk Yard Rehearsal Studio. You can hear the theme for Sanford & Sons playing as you pull in the parking lot.
This works! My own band, Wicked Rage, did this in the Houston area during the 90's.
Our jamroom was in the middle of a warehouse complex. One day we threw some pallets & plywood together as a makeshift stage, invited some friends, and started playing. Word of mouth spread and it was huge.
We also hit 2 bars, an Icehouse called Bud's and a pub called O'Ryan's. We asked the owners if we could set up on a slow night, bring our own crowd, and we take the door, they sell the beers. Worked so well that O'Ryan's had us back regularly and Bud's let us use his bar as a jam room any night we wanted!
We eventually added Tejas Saloon, Whispering Pines and others. All bars that would not normally have live metal bands, but were open to making money!
Yes, great idea. I remember The Hotel Cafe when it was just a coffee shop too and I think the barrista came in on his bicycle-so cool to see it blossom. I love that they keep their no talking over music policy too. Thanks for the inspiration.
I did this same thing in our little town. We rented a room (cheap) and had music about once a month. It was a huge hit. Then the guy decided we couldn't rent the building any more. I haven't had the drive to start over. Maybe I will.
The best part of this is that you stimulate creative thinking!
As a performer and bandleader with more than 30 years on the road, having performed at every conceivable type of venue (from cat-houses to White House Innauguration balls!), I cringe, however, at the concept of having to sit still, with absolutely no talking, in reverence of the performers! I mean, if the music performance captivates you, then you'll be paying attention and having fun...it's natural. As it's also natural to attend these kind of events in the company of one's special partner plus some friends, enjoying some stimulating libations....basically, getting loose and going with the flow of a fun event.
So, must one sit up straight, without crossing one's legs and stare face-front directly at the stage, in complete solemn silence?
It's like paying money to sit in a class where we'll be severely scolded by the principal for fidgeting or talking to a classmate! Only, this is not a private middle school...it's an adult entertainment venue..... it's a music place, not a library!
I mean...does this place only host soooft, introspective music? I'd liek to see you try this with some hot Latin band performing! Brother, when a Latin band plays a house concert (or even at a Latin party, when they play some CDs!), the first thing to go is the furniture...cause you'll have to make room for the dancing!
I would never impose this SILENCE upon someone who came out to see me and enjoy my musical performance.
That is a good idea. Right on cachatone!
We have a similar venue here in New London, Conn. The Bean & Leaf - http://www.bean-leaf.com/Bean-Leaf/Welcome.html. There are no "no talking rules", but respect is on the menu. We do a songwriters night every couple months - http://www.sinnerscircle.net where it's so packed they have to sit outside on the curb with the doors open....
The Space (Hamden, CT) is an incredible example of a musical paradise created by a guy who toured for years and then decided to just make his own venue, where musicians are treated right and all the songs are original. Complete with coffee bar and vintage shop, it's a true listening room and has been going strong now for years!
Totally awesome point Derek,
I have a little twist to it.
About a year ago I fully realized that I could spend an hour playing a show to a room full of people.
Or, an hour promoting my Website to a world full of people - and getting my music directly in their iPods.
In one year I have been able to touch literally 10,000x+ more people than I have in 20 years of playing live, no exaggeration, by completely dedicating myself to online promotion.
So for real, my new exclusive venue is my Website.
Dan-O
Yes this is what the world's all about!!
Like I said before my life is with the Lord and sing in church!!! Although wouldn't mind singing nice secular songs!
oh my god there is a reason why I keep looking at the closed abandoned bank a block away from me!
the'playing for change' phenomena could (should) be extended into every community large enough to harbor aspiring and accomplished musicians begging for music venues and socially creative opportunities. in this way, it's conceivable the spirit of art consciousness could become a major player in boosting regional morale (in this stagnant economic landscape) and invigorating an otherwise lackluster community cultural scene. if you're bored stiff sitting at home watching the idiot box or playing with yourself, what do you have to lose?
The Birchmere in Alexandria, VA, has been running as a listening club for decades. The last time I was there the wall was papered with acts that had performed there - folks like Mary Travers, John Hartford, Stan Rogers and lots of others who aren't dead yet.
RE: BMI/ASCAP Bob Franke has a waiver he gives wherein he guarantees to the venue that he won't perform any protected music.
It isn't just live music that gets hit with the licensing fees. Any recorded music that is played for the public in a business establishment has to be licensed. Even phone "on-hold" music - which explains why it is so crappy.
This is an excellent story. I totally that getting creative is key. I had a party after my last gig and they gig and party had a good turnout. I live in LA and yes the ventures are not musician friendly. The Hotel Cafe is one of the best places to play in town for singer/songwriters but the catch is that getting to play there is tough. They are very strict about how many people you bring. That is obviously not the point of the story. Gary saw an opening and created something amazing. Right on.
Yep, now I am CERTAIN it was you Derek who was sneaking around our place outside last night in the dark while this VERY topic was being discussed and a VERY similar resolution was reached...hmmmm
They didn't believe me that it was you making all that noise in our alley - but wait 'til I show them this blog, they'll believe me then!
...next time, watch out for the trash cans in our gangway - and yes, this is exactly the solution no matter what commodity one peddles - build your own podium!
Great idea I want to share my music with anyone who will listen. keep up the good work!
The Hotel Cafe is a beautiful venue and a great success story. Unfortunately, it has become a typical Hollywood venue, where getting a gig is more a matter of who-you-know than the quality of the music. Where exceptional up-and-coming (and established) artists from beyond the Hotel Cafe's scene can only hope of playing the 7 pm set on a Tuesday night. Where it costs almost $30 just to park your car, get in the door, and buy a drink. Where they'll turn off the microphone and the stage lights mid-song if you go over your allotted set duration (I was shocked when I saw that happen to Eleni Mandell, one of LA's best artists, a few years ago). I am interested in whether Gary Jules still thinks the Hotel Cafe is a Hollywood venue friendly to musicians; a place where people come to listen, not talk over the music; and a place to play, not showcase.
-- Derek
So make a new one!
A similar option, one which I have always used and currently teach other artists how to do, is to create your own event. There are lots of existing venues which can be used at little or no cost to create the event you want to have for the audience you want to attract.
Bill Pere
Founder and Executive Director, LUNCH
President and Executive Director, CT Songwriters Association
IMC Indie Artist of the Year
An Official Connecticut State Troubadour since '95
Director, CT Songwriting Academy
Author, "Songcrafters' Coloring Book: The Essential Guide to Effective and Successful Songwriting"
Julie and I now do regular duo acts in Second Life (www.secondlife.com). Musician friend of mine told me decent money could be made there and she was right. We make about the same money as a real life coffee shop gig and we don't have to leave the house ( the music is streamed up to SL and our little cartoon characters stand on stage strummin' and singing).
Best of all, we sell a steady stream of MP3 downloads and CDs to people from all over the world who would never otherwise have known we exist.
I am doing workshops at FARM Folk Alliance
http://www.farmfolk.org/
I Love Cold Calling (Rich Baumann)
Rich Baumann has made a living with a professional music career
spanning three decades. He has done over eight thousand
paid performances. How has he done it? Can I do it? What is
the secret? Rich will share his formula for successful marketing
in a one hour workshop at FARM 2009.
Out-of-the-box Gigging: Butter your bread with fun
and easy gigs (Patti Ecker & Rich Baumann)
In this workshop, we’ll explore how to use your versatility to score
some rewarding weekday (and everyday) music gigs: kids, elders,
churches, libraries, what-have-you. Discussion will include program
development, booking strategies, performance techniques for
your target audience, sound equipment and managing accounts.”
Land of opportunity!
Great article Derek, this attitude can be transferred to the whole entertainment industry, if we don’t like it, we should start a new one! We need Movie Directors without a casting couch, Radio station without program directors that take payola from big Record labels, we need CD stores that will place good independent CDs on the shelf right next to Major label artist and play their music on their in store systems in rotation with Major Label artist and let the public decide which CD they want to buy and instead of being brainwashed, because that’s all the public gets to hear!
hey Derek, you are the bomb! I now play house concerts for very rich people all over europe...better still I have just launched an album for charity in my home country of NZ where I have a strong but small following. I have aligned myself with the biggest names in NZ music. Why wait to be asked to be on something like this? I created it myself.
merrychristmasbaby.co.nz
Inspiring... watch out Philadelphia!
that was really inspiring Derek, because i have been performing as the White Cat with a burlesque troupe, and we are pioneering the whole electronic French pop/burlesque thing up here in Fort Collins, CO, and this is exactly the kind of thing we've been talking about. we want to branch out into classier places than just bars, etc. the bars are ok to play, but we want to step it up to create a posh atmosphere. thanks for getting the wheels turning.
Dave
I love Gary Jules and bought his album from CD Baby 2 years ago, it's pretty much incredible and features his cover of the tears for fears song, Mad World. Donnie Darko is one of my favorite films of all time! I never knew Gary created such a cool venue for himself and others! This is an awesome and inspiring story. Thanks for sharing Derek!
This is the story of my life..
I had an inventor Father, and sat around the kitchen table dreaming up ideas with my family and friends..
I always thought that is what you are supposed to do.. Have a problem, create a solution you like
I know I am not the first person to have done this, but I'm kinda surprised I'm the first person to have mentioned it...about three years ago after my daughter was born I figured I needed to cut down on the late nights out all over Boston. There is this...I hesitate to call it a game..."world" of Second Life where I have been performing (streaming concerts from my home computer) at least twice a week for the past three years to crowds between 10-50 from all over the world. I play about an hour of my original songs and people as they are listening can download songs from iTunes or from my site, listen in, interact, make requests, mock my broken string or forgotten lyric...it's a pretty amazing deal.
I seem to be getting popular in Australia right now :-P
I know plenty of coffee shops that would love to host live music but can't afford the exhorbitant city entertainment tax and ascap and bmi fees just so a musician can sit in a corner and play a few tunes.
I wish I could find a venue that would let me play music with my animations in the background. When I mention this idea to people in Colorado, they get a blank stare on their face and say, "Huh?"
hi derek, great post...as always...you know why i started my label and publishing?
cheers, andy
I've started that here too at a small coffeehouse. Went to many over the years and toward the end, the audiences were positively deafening, especially if the acts were in an unplugged venue. Since I started mine, I'm amazed at who's showing up. I've turned hosting over to my cohost so that I can concentrate on my thing but one of the rules, absolutely, still is, no talking while there's playing. I might occasionally hear a low comment from someone that's in response to the music and completely uncontrolled but otherwise, it's as quiet as a library. Except for when they use the grinder. Arggh. LOL
Thanks for posting this. We must take back the respect we used to be given (well, not in bars we weren't but at least in coffeehouses and unplugged venues). I think it'll help people to relax a little more too, get lost in the thing they came for, rather than in spending the evening doing what they do all day at work, talk. :p
I like that no talking over the music rule... ~~~
Hi Derek,
I have been playing outside Flanagan's cafe in Moruya NSW (OZ) every Sat morning for about five years. Breakfast music. I have made many wonderful friends who have bought my book and my music. Enough bread in the case to pay for expenses and I play what I want to play. A multiple of all my compositions and other music I enjoy. How selfish of me!!! I am sick of managers whose only ear for music is the bell on the cash register.
In Europe, people don't talk during live music in a club, bar or restaurant. Only in the USA are people self-centered enough to do this.
As a 60 year old singer/songwriter/comedic storyteller with a specific niche audience, I am happy playing house concerts and in other locations not often used for performance of music. I'd rather play more often for smaller audiences than less often for big audiences.
Isn't that the point of being a musician, to play as much music as possible?
There is a good interview with Joshua Bell who just did an unusual album with many friends, in his house, on Laurie Niles' blog on violinist dot com. Some of those friends are Sting, Chris Botti, Regina Spektor, and Anoushka Shankar. House music is not a new idea but it keeps coming back and back and back. You can call the shots. Finding your venue is like that: making it home for music.
This is a great idea, but for instance here in the UK you need a minimum of an acoustic licence (up to 2 people) for any venue to be able to have live music. They should register with PRS and all that.
It would definitely be worth it to go and pick an existing pub/bar that's strategically located and fit for purpose. The downlside of this at present is the economy. Venues change hands all the time so you could find yourself high and dry after a few weeks.
Great read Derek and keep them coming.
Great example; have enjoyed playing at Hotel more than other LA venues by far, it's a special venue that respects the musicians; although as someone here mentioned, you can't spill over your time slot because it's almost always booked on the hour. The tendency of LA crowds is to schmooze, talk, do business during shows. I have someone announce before the show that if folks would like to talk, please use the back doors and take it outside. Byond that, then it's my job to give the best show possible.
A good sound system makes all the difference in the world, and getting paid as well. As time goes on, the crappy venues become less appealing, and house concerts become more so. Cheers to Hotel, love it there!
Derek, ck out our site...www.macarnold.com....I meet a 13 year old that floored me......and we do blues in the schools. Now we are trying to start a foundation built around a song we wrote to try to inspire kids to stay in school.......raising money a for the music programs in schools because of all the cuts. we would love for you to be a part of this. It is a lot harder than we thought...we could use your help.....just throught your emails..... The I Can Do Any Thing Foundation.....I can sent you more info if you like.
Our band is build around the legendary Mac Arnold....Former bass player for Muddy Waters
Thanks, Max
Greetings Derek!
Thank you for the great post. I'm interested to know how the funding/finance aspect of those early gigs worked. Where the artists paid and if so how and by whom?
Keep on keeping it real.
I couldn't wait till 9.30p.m. somehow to read my 'first' daily email from you and now see why.
Thanks for putting me on your list so fast Derek. I don't deserve it!
As many others tell you G-d must be guiding you to choose these articles which mean so much to me and many others. You are priceless!
For weeks now I have been humming 'MAD WORLD' and wondered who wrote this so mega thanks.
I have gone into the link you provided for us and will be able to purchase some of Gary Jules Music now thanks to you.
This morning I was humming Neil Young's Heart of Gold(my favorite song of all time) and voila here was your article about the little Cafe in Cahuenga, Hollywood.
After major works I discovered I had kept an old cassette of ten years back called Music of America which had my song MBA on it, sang by Cherise Shelley -I was one of 24 and had intended to use this as a speech when I found somewhere I could teach about Songwriting/Collaborating etc.... Back then I was too ill to travel or do this but now that has changed- I am ready .
So you have now 'resurrected' an idea of mine to help young people who are interested in the Pitfalls/Excitement of getting their 'words' out either like me the whole thing or with collaborators ...by my reading about that weekly Songwiters Meeting you wrote about above here
A Recording Studio called Reeltime Music is only a few miles away and is housed within a School. It boasts a State of the Arts Recording Studio identical to that of Abbey Road Studios in London. This studio is where I have been working last two years with all my work now-everything from CDCovers tweeking to salvaged sounds etc. All staff are 'tuned' in to each other and myself and we all get on really well.
SO....you got me thinking -they always like volunteers so I shall put myself forward to helping the kids perhaps on a Saturday morning for a few weeks.
Last year I mentioned this to them but then due to Thyroid problems it completely slipped my mind and they did not pester me so thanks Derek again for my 'resurrection'.
Perhaps if you don't mind I will copy 'some' of your notes on Songwriting from what we all got from you and hand them out to the young ones so they read up and absorb things into their enquiring minds. This would be great help.
What a great story-Gary did well and looks a real nice guy so now I know what the man looks like who wrote 'MAD WORLD' -thanks.
Ah.. soon you'll have me so busy I won't be able to 'sleep'- joking-I like it this way anyway!
May G-d keep you strong in all that you do....thank-you
I heard a true story about a talented singer who stood on a wooden box in a busy city street and started singing. When he drew a crowd, they were invited to a pre-booked indoor venue, where they could hear more. He achieved much success.
Like the saying goes, necessity is the mother of invention
I started doing this in the 80's. No one would book an original band in this area, so I set up my own shows wherever I could. Of course when the club owners saw the crowds and lack of attendance at their places on the nights of our shows they came around.
This is a good idea - look for a place that could use some music and some business and help them make money!
That's right! And that's the way: Here in Buenos Aires, Argentina, I was really tired of great music corporations. If I would continue talking and presenting demos, projects, and others, I'd never have 4 records (one of them for digital distribution, and other as a production for third party) on sale. We don't sell thousands of records or .mp3 files, but we begin to be known, we concrete our projects, and, in the end, we're happy to be musicians -and auto-producers, also!-. My humble mark, Cymusic.
Best wishes
"Be the Venue Danny, be the Venue."
Great idea's Derek.
And with LiveNation buying up all of the clubs and existing venues where music acts perform...if you can't beat em'...join em', in creating the music venues. I love reading blogs like this because it is extremely inspirational, and worth it! If you think about, you put so much money into creating the songs, mixing, mastering, designing, pressing, and promoting the album...why not put in the time and effort to create new opportunities for yourself, and others. I'm gonna begin researching places that don't have music around the New England area...may even put together a list of places and send it to you to post on a blog. "We're all in this together." - Just Plain Folks said that.
- Jared Jones
I sure miss the days when the clubs were filled with smoke and you had to throw away your clothes after the gig.
Nice Derek.
Absolutely inspiring article...being creative and proactive with your music is the only way to get anything tangible
for your long term career..(especially as the labels cut, cut, cut.)
That's awesome. Now someone needs to start another venue like that in LA so that those same people who originally played at Hotel Cafe will have a place to play now that the High profile Stars have taken it over. After all that seems like it was the spirit from the beginning.
House concerts have been mentioned. We've found them to be some of the best for a number of reasons:
- the hosts have a network of friends that will be different than ours, and will have an interest in getting friends there.
-the host provides hospitality and a concert setting
- folks are there to listen
- many people have beautiful big rooms that they've built for this reason, but need musicians to step up
- it's a great way to broaden our fan base
Another potential venue is a church. Most have good sound systems and a congregation that might love to have something different. Trick here is to match the music we have to a specific congregation. Big churches are overloaded with events and performers, so they are a long shot. Small, or mid size churches often have little, or what they have gets overused. They love something new, and it dosen't have to be all 'gospel' music.
We've done both selling tickets for these events, and by donation. Sometimes the latter is better.
Respect the hosts, be thankful, and they'll recommend us to others or re-invite us again.
darryl
jdminer.com
LOVE IT! There's always a way. Focus on what you want.. not want you don't want. That's what I'm learning. Thanks for sharing Derek!
The potential for success with new venues has always been about addressing the the needs of a subculture.It doesnt matter if you're taliking about folk, be-bop, hip hop,rock,blues, grunge or whatever, if there is a vital subculture emerging, venues will be created to conform to it.
In the best of circumstances everybody has fun , gets paid, and maybe even some great art will be created.Then,most typically, someone who sees the venue only as a business model will buy the joint and from then on, it will be as bogus as any other tourist trap.
The trick is to identify a real subculture, as opposed to one you just wish exists,and provide quality to your customers.Actually the next frontier in venues probably is cyberspace.
in the early 80's we,
the pa association of songwriters & composers (no longer in existence) made club pascal (300 capacity) in allentown, pa.
the organization directed by john havassy then went on to create the allentown music hall (1200 capacity).
i did a series of local & regional concerts that were utmost successful, outside promoters brought in dun n roses, the ramones, cheap trick, gwar and so many more.
one band concert i produced, living earth, made over $2000 for the band twice.
what happen?
greed & evil bad pussy (john married one of the most evil bitches of all time) & greedy motherfucking piss brain strip managers...
it was a musical paradise and proved that a handful of dedicated
wackers could make something very special happen.
bright musical ways
ian the being
What a very timely article for me! I’m moving to Albuquerque NM next summer for this very reason – to open my own little jazz and blues club. Your article gives me even more encouragement to get out and do my own thing.
Thanks Derek, and keep the posts coming!
That's a great idea. I am in a area where Jazz is about a speck.
Thanks for the inspiring words.
Paula
About 25 years ago, I had asked my band leader, Lloyd Jones, how he went about getting his gigs. His reply was, "make one". Some worked and some didn't, but the successful ones had a commonality: receptive owners who understood that there was more to creating a venue than just putting music in the room. They cooperated in putting a program together, from musical theme, to presentation, to promotion and recognized that the responsibility was shared.
Thanks for the affirmation. It still works, even in an environment where club owners are generally paring back out from fear of economic uncertainty.
This is a wonderful idea! I definitely agree that there should be another one, or two, or three. A musician's support group too.
When a person becomes a musician, they have hopes of selling their work, otherwise they would have never put all that time, expense, and physical work into it. (Hobbies are part time things for fun, not money. Are you a hobbiest?) People who really work at being a professional musician want to see it pay. So, what is the solution? If you have talent, raise your price, and stick with it. Don't work for free open mics if you have talent. Don't support organizations who say they 'support' the arts, but don't pay the price of the art. Teach the public that 'supporting' the arts means payment for the artist. If you want an audience, invite people to your friends home concert, and charge. If someone can't pay, teach them to donate something for the cause, ie. The coffee house can't pay? How about a bunch of vouchers for coffee house goods that you can give to your fans? It could be an advertising expense for them, and there is nothing better than direct advertising. Remember, you are not a professional musician until you get paid. Your art is not 'supported' until you are supported. Do you want love to be there? Then love yourself.
i wrote this not long ago..
"...am looking for a platform
to express my art form
it illusive how come
but life got 2 go on
made where i stood on
to be my platform..."
from the platform.
No everyone can either run a venue from their house or buy a place to use as a venue. however, if there were venture capitalists who supported the arts, then maybe...
You are not alone. You want the rich people to come. Artists have to stop dreaming that the rich guy will come along, and become the rich guy. If you want something or someone to support you, start with yourself. Stop dreaming about the rich. The rich have never picked the great artists. They were picked in the lowest parts of the community. No record company ever picked up an artist who didn't already make it on some level. It could be argued that record deals are a sell out, not a deal. Because we dream about the rich supporting us, we have a music scene like it is today, where rich patrons sit in cafes and can't even listen or clap without direction, and music is virtually free wherever you look. Does it sound like somebody has been kissing up here? Listen to the clapping. The level of your clapping is the level at which you have been kissing up. The level of your pay is the level at which you are selling (out?). Ask any artist who made it, and they will start to talk about their friends, their community of people. If you have a community of people, you can use a backyard, an apartment, a rooftop... Read about the Grateful Dead. Even they had to get real about the money part. Do you want people to love you? Love yourself.
thanks, derek, i agree wholeheartedly with this kind of thinking. early on, most bands played at bars and clubs and i wasn't interested in doing that..i started seeking out restaurants and organizations where my style of music would be accepted and i sing at coffeehouses, do radio shows, private parties etc. it's called "lifestyling" in the business world...when i was little, my dad would always say" the ladder of success is not hard to climb....it's just getting past the crowd at the bottom..."
you don't always have to do what everyone is doing to make your money...and after a lot of trial and error, i have found that there is definetly still money to be made in this business and you don't have to sell your soul to make it! thanks for another great thought provoker!!
I never knew that! I've seen Gary Jules as well as other acts play there but never knew the history.
LOCATION,LOCATION,LOCATION-In Real Estate the selling factor. Whereby every artist who makes a name is exempt from paying taxes.
Great idea.. it should work for musicians. It has worked well for songwriter/musicians. Several years ago I played a venue at the Bluebird Cafe in Nashville which has become an icon for new artists.
They kept their own sound system there and songwriter performers gathered in a circle (usually 3 or 4)in the middle of the cafe. The placed was always packed and the business sold a lot of food and drinks as well receiving a lot of advertisement. Recording stars like Garth Brooks got their start there.
An interesting guy once said that as an entrepreneur he can change anything. Creating a venue's the same type of thing. It's a liberating view of the world!
some promoters have been dominating the revenues in southern California, who started the concept of pay to play here. They make bands pay them upfront for the "opportunity" of show casing a 45 minute set at the revenue. That means you gotta hit your friends and family up to sell them tickets to your show so you can make your money back. What a shame. This really is what discouraged me to continue performing, unless you can draw a big crowd, you're in the dumps. Of course the headliners get paid a portion of the money the opening bands paid and all the people that just show up and pay at the door, well the promoters keep that money. Capitalism at it's worst. I wish I could open a venue, but then I would have to spend all my time hosting the other bands etc.
Yes I Derek
This ya one is a cool running idea ,seen.
I & I on a project like that at a international port in France named Le Havre,the venue, Couleur Café ... people comming to I & I show like rice...Jah Bless.
RASTAFARI
I love creating and making something out of nothing. This story inspires me to do more of that and create a space in the world where my niche isn't being addressed.
Thanks for a great story.
Dave
LifeExcursion
I like the fact that no one can talk during a performance. To many times artist play to a dead crowd. If they only knew that a performer feeds off the response of the audience they may listen and get a better show.
I love that song. Spooky, beautiful, true...
these are a few of my favorite things.
"I sure miss the days when the clubs were filled with smoke and you had to throw away your clothes after the gig."
-This is my favorite comment.
I read them all, so I could be certain.
A friend of mine named Josh Fryfogle has done just this in the remote town of Wasilla, AK. In doing so, he turned a cultural desert into a veritable oasis of music.
I live in L.A. I REFUSEREFUSEREFUSE to "pay to play." And even the venues here that DON'T run that kind of racket are still stuck with terrible parking situations, or require a drink or food minimum, all which make it difficult to get your friends to come out, let alone potential new fans. Between that and what I have to pay players, I just stopped performing unless I was hired to sing backup for someone.
Now however, I've come up with my own ideas. First of all, I am not a person who poo-poos karaoke, which means I am also not a person who poo-poos singing to tracks of my own songs. It's extremely cost effective in this particular city. So my recent CD release party was at a venue where I judge a weekly karaoke contest and I sang to tracks from my new album. I only had to pay the KJ (who cut me a deal) and some munchies for folks (obviously optional). I did a $5 suggested donation at the door (all but two people paid), my friend handled the door for me for free, bartender was already there, etc. I made a profit just off the door that night (that didn't count CD sales).
Second thing I've been doing has resulted from the pure dumb luck of living next door to a man with a gift for gardening. He has turned our yard into a mini-botanical paradise in the middle of butt-ugly North Hollywood. There is plenty of free street parking. There's a lot next door that the business lets us use. So I recently did a Garden Concert - a house concert but in the yard. Passed a basket for donations. Opened up the grills and told folks to bring some food. Borrowed a PA from the little church around the corner and played an acoustic set with a guitar player friend. And NO ONE uttered a word through my whole performance! Folks got an afternoon of entertainment AND "fellowship" (as my mom would call it) and I made enough to pay my guitarist, profit a little AND I got some free food cuz people shared! Works for me. A little too cold for winter though. I'll have to brainstorm again. ;-)
When I was performing regularly with my full band the best shows we did were shows we produced ourselves. We kept all the money, controlled the vibe and how long we played and what refreshments were served and which other acts we played with. Our audience seemed to enjoy these shows best as well. I plan to do this again once this project's latest recording is out.
Great Derek! that was really inspirational...don't like it? Create one...and that's how God works, the "Let there be..." (Gen 1v3) was spoken unto what existed before. He brought forth something new rather than criticize something that was. Thanks for sharing.
God bless
I concur absolutely. I will be organizing my own band first. Then I look forward to performing at a nice set as you mentioned. I have been forunate to perform with Professor and Army band leader Stephen Josephs. He conducts an orchestra I was privleged to sing with on a few occassions. I will post our next performance at the bottom of my cd baby page. I have been working on so many other projects. I know I don't put enough time into a music career.
I will make a website where I will post concerts in advance. I have to put more time in the business first. Thanks for all of the input Derek.
Yeah MAn!
I'm making my own venue too
Just like Celine.... but mine ain't gonna be a plain dome... Frank Gary is on it designing it.
I'm working on the money.
How?
skydiving Karaoke.
along with the pics & the video you get a CD too!
Petra
This is a GREAT IDEA!!! There are so many potential venues to play, if you look at them the right way.
The "No Talking" during the show is wonderful!
Michelle Carr
www.wildrumpus.org
I'm making a venue out of the entire downtown of Athens this year... and including everyone who wants to be a part. Cheers to new ways of thinking!
Timi
You can sing for someone anywhere! Twenty plus years ago I got my biggest paying gig after swapping a song for an item at a garage sale. I have many times since then said I'll sing you a great song for that....
Another great example is John Zorn's club 'The Stone' in NYC. People often wait outside for hours to get a good inside this very small venue that seats about 50 people and has some of the best experimental musicians from around the world performing there. You are also not allowed to talk, cellphones have to be switched off...most importantly/bizarrely, they do not serve any drinks and one is not allowed to even drink water inside. i.e. TOTAL respect to the performer and the artists there can play as quietly as they want. Going there is a truly unique experience, espescially for other musicians, seeing someone perform there is like looking at them under a microscope. All money collected at the door goes to the performers, the club does not take a cut (the people working there are volunteers and the club has 1 show per month where musicians play for free and moeny goes to support the club). Wonderful ideas, wonderful place...
You can't do this in England though! A new law means the venue has to buy an expensive music license to put on live music, even solo acoustic guitar. If you don't have a license there is the punishment of a fine up to £20,000 and up to two years in prison.
It's about the same in the US. In this case, Hotel Café already had paid that license. -- Derek
I maintain this website at www.dodiyusa.org that lists do-it-yourself venues all of the USA.
Live the lyrics...
Don't forget about the Opportunity of Community Venues.
Practice Audience Inclusion.
They may not feed your ego, but they're listening baby...
"The people who get on in this world are the people who get up and look for the circumstances they want and if they can't find them, make them." George Bernard Shaw
I have done this over & over many times. My favorite places to do this kinda thing are art galleries, they're always looking for ways to get people in the door.
for loud acts, bite the bullet and rent a local grange or Vet's hall. Usually cheap, sell food soda & Tshirts to make extra bux...get volunteer staff.
Listening rooms are popping up, slowing and surely, just about everywhere. Good music deserves to be listened to, not just drunk to!
We opened Studio 99 in Nashua, NH over a year ago and the response has been overwhelmingly positive.
http://studio99nashua.com
Thanks for this great article!
Cheers
Elise
In 1980, I found myself booted out of THE MISFITs, and banned from both CBGB and MAXS. Rather than give up, I started THE UNDEAD, went into a little illegal speakeasy across from Tompkins Square Park, and convinced the owner to let me hold my first gig there. Everyone said I was nuts to think anyone would go to the most dangerous neighborhood in New York. That first gig drew 80 people to Ave A. Within two months, the cast of Saturday Night Live were hanging out there.
That started what is now known as the EAST VILLAGE.
Awesome story, Bobby! Thanks! -- Derek
I've really enjoyed visiting Hotel Cafe, highly recommended!
I started a night at the famous Yoshi's in San Francisco in their lounge. This way all artist get extra exposure to people coming out of the venue. The format is similar to a house show where 3 artists rotate 20 minute sets 3 times through. The format works really well as artists get to share their fans with each other.
I feed them, pay them, record the show and provide someone to sell their merch. Songwriters just want to be treated well because they deserve it. I should know I AM ONE!
If you've seen 24 Hour Party People, that's what Tony Wilson did. That's where he discovered Joy Division and started his Label, Factory Records.
Wow amazingly creative story! I wonder if the same principle can be applied if you're unhappy with your boss
...
I have done that in NY...bring a PA, take over a bar...play 3 hours...new venue!
I am pretty pro-active & quite willing to try a start up like this. I have also worked with a few coffee shops to help get things going. My main issue is I don't have a big following of my own yet, so I can't "bring in my own crowd". So, it's kind of a catch 22 right now. There is a venue I helped get started & now they are starting to consider paying musicians (instead of having free musicians collect their own tips & sell CDs). The problem with this owner is he is not 100% reliable. He talks about supporting music, but does not actively or persistently even promote/market his own place. He's gotten lucky a few times to have some groups meeting in his place & that is bringing in a little extra business for him. He's thrown a couple of all weekend long events with different music acts on the hour. That's really cool -- most of the attendees are other musicians waiting their turn. It would be great to take the concept & build it into a really supportive environment for musicians & build the music lover/listeners at the same time. I have some ideas of my own & will stop back in when I have them up & running. Thanks for the interesting conversations, Derek, as always!
If you're not too fussy, any old room, some chairs, some friends and a half decent sound system unfolds into a coffeehouse in a matter of minutes. House concerts are coming to be more systematized now, and small venues, ever blooming and dying, are beginning to be dealt with in a sane way through Folk Alliance (www.folk.org). I would be very happy playing my way across the country and back, seven days a week, at the inflationary equivalent of the same fifty bucks a night I used to get in the sixties.
I totally agree. In Albuquerque as a performer I noticed there was no venue to highlight and listen to acoustic music. I complained for a little while and then opened up my own performance space. http://www.chromabq.com and started what I call an intimate concert series.
It's all about finding the area you already like to hang around in and and then begin to search for the perfect place within that area that would appreciate your idea of playing there. Create your own "Disney World"!
Derek - we are putting together a unique listening concert we call 3x3 Music. It's 3 bands on stage at the same time in a round robin format. In addition we will have a host that asks questions and takes comments from the audience. We are also incorporating an intermission where the artist will be in the lobby talking to people, building email lists, and selling their products. It's all about connecting the artists with their audiences. For more information check out the press release at http://www.flydogmusic.com/3x3-music---november-10-2009 or 3x3 Music on Facebook. Thanks, dan
This reminds me of the movie field of dreams. Build it and they will come.
This is what you are talking about and you gotta love this! Just sent to me:
Johnny Roquemore and the Apostles of Bluegrass at The Hartsfield / Jackson Atlanta Airport. The Apostles play from 5 - 7 pm in the Atrium under the Big Clock inside the Atlanta Airport.
Come on down and watch the planes take off and land while listening to Bluegrass. At least the price is right. It's Free! www.myspace.com/apostlesofbluegrass
this is RICH, derek!
inspiring....
i just now got to sit behind the computer and read this, but even glancing at the title gave me some creative ideas!
currently, i can't play out at all!
i'm going through difficult treatment for chronic lyme disease and its possible this recovery could go on a long time...
BUT as i read your heading, it occurred to me that *maybe* i could do my own "house concerts", since i usually can't even leave the house or even the couch. my mom's got a digital camera that records! AND, once i begin to improve and get farther along in my recovery, i could even do "house concerts" and invite friends/locals to a "in-house show"...
you have NO idea the stretching room you just gave me.
bless you, derek!
YOU ROCK! (:
warmly,
-anne davis
hooray gary! now when can my band book a show there?
and what about online venues? live stream shows, that's the future, it's bold, less costly and opens yet more room for more creativity
joy from VORTEX
Absolutely!
I used to be in a band in Rhode Island that played regularly at a couple of places that had never had live music before. One was a fisherman's bar by the beach that held about 150 people and the other was a tiny bar that had an official capacity of 35 people.
Both venues gave us 100% of the door. The smaller bar also gave us $100 extra and let us drink for free.
The best part was that we were able to book any other bands or acts that we wanted to. We had so much fun playing with our friends and meeting new bands to play with. It really created a community atmosphere that was a lot of fun for everyone.
That to me is the key. We weren't trying to chase a carrot on the end of a stick by trying to play the most prestigious venues. Instead we were focusing on having fun and delivering a great experience for the people who were in front of us.
You might think that it would be a waste of time playing a bar that holds 35 people, but I tell you what - those were some of the most fun shows I've ever played. People were jammed in there, so the energy was all the more intense. Those who didn't get there early were turned away at the door. It created a sense of demand.
You could take the same crowd and put them at the Roxy or a House of Blues and it would be far less memorable experience for the audience and the band wouldn't make a dime.
The moral of the story is that YOU are the show. Not the venue. Get rid of all the expenses and non-sense that stands between you and your fans. At some point that might become necessary, when you get big enough.
In the meantime, I think it's best to focus on what's really important - giving people the best experience possible - and that doesn't have anything to do with them paying $15 to park, $15 to get in the venue, $7 for a beer and watching one of 7 bands that the sound guy doesn't care about. It's all about community and fun. Anything else is just an obstacle.
Thanks for your inspiring article. I've always wanted to open a coffee house and got bogged down by the intesity of making the coffee, managing etc. The other night I was thinking why not start an open mic for older folks, my age, earlier in the evening at someone else's coffee shop. There a alot of late night venues around here. Addressing the first responder. It's true we're at the whim of the owner and there isn't always money in it, but look what happened to Derek's story--the publicity outweighed any he could have afforded probably and he was able to find owners who were good to work with.