Entrepreneur, programmer, avid student of life. I make useful things, and share what I learn.

Emphasize meaning over price = More paid sales

If you are a performing musician that sells CDs at your shows, please consider this:

Terry McBride of Nettwerk told this story at a recent conference:

A band he was managing (Griffin House) was doing the usual thing of selling CDs for $15. They'd mention it once or twice from the stage, and sell about $300 per night on average.

He asked them to try a completely different approach:

  1. Say to the audience, “It's really important to us that you have our CD. We worked so hard on it and are so proud of it, that we want you to have it, no matter what. Pay what you want, but even if you have no money, please take one tonight.
  2. Mention this again before the end of the show, adding, “Please, nobody leave here tonight without getting a copy of our CD. We've shared this great show together so it would mean a lot to us if you'd take one.”

It changes the request from a commerical pitch to an emotional connection. (Replace market mindset with social mindset!) Allowing them to get a CD for no money just reinforces that.

Terry said that the band did this for a while, and soon they were selling about $1200 per night on average, even including those people who took it for free! I think the average selling price was about $10.

But the important part came next:

Because every person left each show with a CD, they were more likely to remember who they saw, tell friends about it, listen to it later, and become an even bigger fan afterwards.

Then, when the band came back to a town where they had insisted that everyone take a CD, attendance at those shows doubled! The people that took a CD became long-term fans and brought their friends to future shows.

Want to try it? Document specifics.

So far this is just rough word-of-mouth from Terry, but it seems like it'd work. Anyone want to try it? If so, I'd like to tell your tale here in a future article.

So please log some specifics, before and after.

BEFORE: How many CDs did you sell at your last 5-10 shows? Average the number and price to come up with an average per-night total and average per-CD price.

AFTER: What were those same numbers for the next 5-10 shows using this method?

Also, please note any specific things you did or said that worked exceptionally well, and perhaps any interesting responses you heard back from the audience.

If you're able to note attendance at the same venue for a concert where you did this, then at that same venue afterwards, that's a nice bonus.

Save these specific numbers, and either post them as a comment below, or email me at derek@sivers.org. Be able to give the venue info, too, because if this goes exceptionally well I'll be contacting the venue for their verification and perspective.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/larskflem/113453239/

Previous title for this post was “Experiment: Everyone must have a CD, even if free.” but I think the new title describes the real point better

Comments

  1. Paul JarvisPaul Jarvis (2009-09-21) #

    i'm curious to try this, and will let you know how it turns out!

  2. emerson christoff (2009-09-21) #

    i will eventually try this with drawings and prints, thanks. I will also pass this on to a young very popular band in Portland, OR

  3. georgette (2009-09-21) #

    what a great idea! I love the emotional connection, if I cannot connect with an artist it is quite difficult for me to listen to their music, especially if it is new music to me. smile

    the era of the commercial pitch is so over smile

  4. Viviana Guzman (2009-09-21) #

    Ok, I'll try it... good idea... I love the way you think!

  5. Faith Gibson (2009-09-21) #

    OK, thing is, I'm a jazz singer and many of my gigs are performing to an audience of between 20 and 100 people tops. But, you know what? I think I'll try it.

  6. Stan Kozadayev (2009-09-21) #

    I'm going to have to think about adapting this strategy for a recording artist, since I don't perform live. Any thoughts?

  7. David Barr (2009-09-21) #

    Well worth a try.

  8. ian bruce (2009-09-21) #

    music being derek
    that won't work for many a band.

    there are so many mediocre cds that even when i have been given them for free, to review, i
    WANT TO CHARGE THE BANDS FOR EAR & MIND & EMOTIONAL WELL BEING DAMAGE.

    it should work for bands that are really good with really good cds
    with really good songs.

    otherwise it will be a band killer.

    how many really good bands are there?
    how many with really good songs?
    bright musical ways
    ian the being being ian

  9. Sam Soul (2009-09-21) #

    How could this be done online. What approaches/forms could this take on Myspace, facebook, ect?

  10. Ryan Michael Galloway (2009-09-21) #

    Brilliant!

  11. WojtekWojtek (2009-09-21) #

    I think this will work - in a way you building a favourable and memorable experience in addition to the music. Helping and giving it away is a good example of Social media in works.

  12. KII Kay (2009-09-21) #

    This is pretty much how we run all of our merch - We kind of blaze through our set with one break in the middle - sometimes we'll split it up and have two breaks.

    During each, we let the folks know that we are stoked they are having a good time, ask that they check out the stuff we brought with us and offer up all of our merch on a donation basis with the same goal in mind:

    Make sure that everyone leaves the venue with something to remind them of the good time they had - preferably a CD or shirt, sometimes just a button or sticker...

    It is a tricky line to toe, but we try to avoid making the sales pitch sound like a sales pitch as much as possible...

  13. Ryan Michael Galloway (2009-09-21) #

    Brilliant!

  14. Michael S Autry (2009-09-21) #

    I tried selling cd'S and found very little support. Now I have a website (chellezan.com) where I have music set up as a free download. The site went from o to 6800 hits amonth in 5 months. However still no money.

  15. Jason Parker (2009-09-21) #

    I have done this with great success with my own CDs (Jason Parker Quartet) and with CDs/DVDs of a band I manage (The Teaching). I can attest that it works wonders in both of the ways that Derek says it will.

    I am having a CD Release Party for my new cd on Oct. 24th and will check in after to let you know specific numbers.

    Cheers,
    Jason Parker

  16. JacquelineJacqueline (2009-09-21) #

    sounds like a great idea. I'll give it a try. Thanks!
    ;)JVB

  17. Kate EdbrookeKate Edbrooke (2009-09-21) #

    One night back in 2003 at an open air festival in Chicago we realised various MC's had told the crowd differing prices for the CD. So we made an announcement at the end of the show that we would accept any amount people wanted to pay. We were inundated, people paid from 5 dollars to 20 dollars and we gave some away to people who said they had no money. We made more that night than any other show on the US tour. If it wasn't for the fact the manager ran off with all the CD money we would have been very happy smile

    I'd recommend it !

  18. Rob GundlingRob Gundling (2009-09-21) #

    Awesome! Thanks for the post. I'm working with an artist right now and we're going to experiment with this...

  19. Anne Heaton (2009-09-21) #

    Will Terry say what band?
    I updated the article to include the band, Griffin House. Terry emailed to remind me. smile -- Derek

  20. Charlie (2009-09-21) #

    We're going to do this at our next show, and have been talking about doing it online. Our approach: email the fanlist and offer 128kbps mp3s of the entire album for free on our website. We still have the CD for sale and the iTunes account, etc. with higher quality audio, so if they want that, they can get it. I would rather give away music and gain fans than pitch and become annoying and lose fans.

  21. SaNa (2009-09-21) #

    I'm on board as soon as I get a new batch of CDs. Looking forward to letting you know how it goes

  22. Eric Harabadian (2009-09-21) #

    Great Idea!!!!! Social Mindset over Market Mindset. I like that!

  23. Joel D CanfieldJoel D Canfield (2009-09-21) #

    Easy to do online; I'm doing it with my audio book. As of yet, I don't give away the whole thing, but there's a full chapter (one hour out of 5 in the audiobook; 40 pages out of 200 in the ebook) with no strings attached. Not even an email address; just download it.

    You have to give value first to earn trust. It's better at a live event, but even online, you can make it an emotional connection instead of simply a business connection.

    All things being equal, folks prefer to buy from someone they know and like.

    Of course, all things NOT being equal, folks STILL prefer to buy from someone they know and like.

    Get them to know you and like you. Done.

  24. Patricia Silverberg (2009-09-21) #

    I can't afford to give away CDs but I have made at home CD singles. I slip my card into the case, so they have my picture, my web site and my email.
    Please read again carefully. The offer to give away CDs actually made more people BUY the CDs. This whole plan would be moot if you just did some little CD single, because that's no longer an amazing offer. -- Derek

  25. David Pascucci (2009-09-21) #

    This is Great! I have decided recently to do this approach but wasn't sure if it was a good approach. I'm glad to see in reinforced and that I'm not alone in my way of thinking. I think that this is such a great approach because it shows that you just want to share your music with people and the money is secondary.
    I'm releasing an album soon (called "Imitation Of Life")and will be using this approach!
    Thanks for sharing this!
    David Pascucci

  26. K.C. Clifford (2009-09-21) #

    I've actually just been researching ideas like yours this morning. I may well try it at some show soon.

    For those asking about how to make this work online, you might benefit from checking out noisetrade.com

    Thanks for taking time to make us all think deeper about our business, Derek. You rock.

    K.C. Clifford
    Let's be friends on twitter: http://twitter.com/kcclifford

  27. Peter Wetzler (2009-09-21) #

    Eric: I have to say that this model saddens me. Where's the respect for the value of the artist's labor when its given away free? In over 25 years as a music writer for film/tv/theater, etc. I have many times been approached with some version of "We don't have much budget on this one but do us a solid and there should be a good budget on the next...." NEVER, has one of these ever come back with a decent paying gig and more than once people have come back with, "Oh, but last time you were able to do this for us. How come?"

  28. Lilli Lewis (2009-09-21) #

    Don't have time to read all the replies right now but I'm thinking of doing this with download cards since the price per unit is so much lower for us - and it's green!

  29. Zach Maxwell (2009-09-21) #

    Thank you for this kick ASS information...again Derek. I love reading.

  30. Toni Brown (2009-09-21) #

    Love the concept, and have tried this in the past myself. Our latest CD almost didn't see light of day. I thought it didn't even make sense to manufacture it with dwindling sales and downloads taking over. But we had a book coming out at the same time as the CD would, so a package deal made sense to me. Today, I shipped dozens of orders for RELIX: The Book, and included a FREE copy of our State Of Mind CD. I don't know if the promised free CD upped the sales, but I do know the people who buy the book will love the music! This will increase our tour and book signing traffic, no doubt.
    Thanks for keeping it real.
    Toni
    Former Publisher Relix magazine

  31. Peter Wetzler (2009-09-21) #

    whoops, missed the D in Derek

  32. Mike Powers (2009-09-21) #

    I think the audience responded well because their expectations had been exceeded. Something for (potentially) free, when nothing free had been expected.

    So let's say that this approach really catches on, and bands start to do this all the time so that audiences experience many offers for free-if-you-like CDs. Over time, won't audiences simply come to expect this offer, and lose any possibility of exceeding expectations in this way?
    No need to worry about that yet. smile -- Derek

  33. Mick Flores (2009-09-21) #

    I have been giving away old eps for quite awhile and to great success.People give me money!I sincerely want to give them away and I am always amazed and grateful to see music fans appreciate the gesture so much they paid for them.Generousity? I really believe they paid me because they see the passion in what I do and my willingness to give it freely.The intent and the act is pure its always spontaneous.The only criteria I look for is someone laughing or smiling before I offer them a freebie.Its always one on one. I have been doing well on the sales side of things lately because of free ep concept and the ol pay whatever you like price.A big smile and a thank you with the parting words if you like what you hear please tell your friends and there is more music available on itunes.I think music fans love the interaction,the story they get to tell friends and also the feeling of really being a part of supporting the success of an indie.Great blog Derek!

  34. Jim Becker (2009-09-21) #

    Derek - This is absolutely true! It's a numbers game. For example, we approach it this way - we set out CD's near a tip jar. A sign reads "Leave a tip - take a CD - any amount is okay". Because there's no fixed price, people will usually drop something in and take a CD. Sometimes, they'll just drop money in to support us. Sometimes, we just encourage the audience to take CD's or we'll even walk around and hand them out. People love it. At this stage of the game, The Beckers aren't looking to make money as much as just get the word out. The money will follow the word if the product is good enough.

  35. Timothy Houston (2009-09-21) #

    The first priority of a business is to turn a profit. I suppose you could write off the given away CD's, but there's a cap. So I would sell for at least $5, for those with no money. You know the people at the venue buying beer, food and merchandising, they can spare at least $5 or they can co-op with a friend and spend $2.50 each. Too much time, effort and money goes into making music, nobody rides for free!

  36. Derek Sandstrom (2009-09-21) #

    I like it, and I have done variations of this. But, here's the wet blanket moment. What about paying sales tax? How would I keep track of how many sold, for what price, and then pay sales tax to the appropriate state for that total? I keep very close record of how many CDs I sell, and which ones (I have 3, for different prices), so that I can pay sales tax honestly. I know others don't bother, but I want to be completely above board with all I do. So, I don't know how I'd keep all the figures straight.

    That said, I think anything we can do to make a personal connection with people in attendance is a definite plus. There has to be a way to do this kind of thing that would be 100% honest and also effective at creating fans who feel they've been taken care of.

    Love your ideas, Derek. I am inspired by thinkers, and you certainly are one of those.

    Blessings,
    another Derek (www.dereksandstrom.com)
    You could just sum up the nights totals: if you have 100 less CDs and $500 more dollars, just average it and say you sold 100 CDs or $5 each, even if different people paid different amounts. Either way, don't let that detail stop you from trying this if it interests you. -- Derek

  37. Annie B (2009-09-21) #

    Looks like you definitely make less money per CD, but of course you make MORE money AND FANS (= even more money) in the long run!!! I have 4 solo shows this weekend (Wed thru Sat), and will give you the skinny on how it works out!!!!! Wish I had the data on the last shows I did there - but I can estimate! With a tip jar, it's hard to guage unless you have a separate "tip" jar just for CDs.

    Thanks, Derek!

  38. Dennis Sleigh (2009-09-21) #

    This is well worth a try for most bands but these days I sing on the street and would be accused of street trading with no license!
    At least this funds my songwriting and it's all a lot of fun. You have to dance while you can.
    Keep smiling. Dennis Derby

  39. Gervasio Goris (2009-09-21) #

    Great Idea...

    A musician always feels a bit weird when asking people to BUY their own CD. It feels a bit narcisictic to most creative minds.

    Now.. if you put it the way you are suggesting then the mindset changes and I am sure he would sell way more CDs. I'm gonna put it to the test..

    Good Stuff

  40. Juni Fisher (2009-09-21) #

    I have, for a long time done a "3-fer" "4-fer" and "5-fer" price at the CD table, and it has been successful...and at festivals where I do my own sales, I out sell most other artists (I am an ambitious sales woman in addition to being an artist) but I will sure try this idea! what the heck, I may start outselling myself!

  41. Frank Colon (2009-09-21) #

    I really like this concept, Derek!

    My CDs are far from being home-produced, involving rehearsal studio rental, the hiring of top musicians and a recording and mastering studio plus the hiring of excellent graphics designers and the printing of thousands (minimum 5,000) of hard copies....all of which always left me with the impression of having to sell product to recoup investment.

    But, you know what? During the course of touring and performing, one always ends up giving away many of these pieces...many times, to people who won't really dig them for their artistic beauty, such as promoters or club owners or the friends/associates of these, instead of to one's fans.

    What you suggest is a means to connect, heart-to-heart with one's fan-base, with a generous attitude that might even prove profitable in the long run.

    If one doesn't recoup the investment soon, with continued touring and performing, things should even out, huh?

    Hopefully, a new, struggling artist can hang in there long enough to experience a return on his generous product donations, right?

  42. Paul Schiavo (2009-09-21) #

    Great approach. A genuine connection from artist to fan is crucial.

  43. Rab Townsend (2009-09-21) #

    I'm constantly frustrated by the fact that experts are always saying (or at least working from the bias) that a band or artist cannot become successful (to any great degree) unless they play live.

    While I love this idea, for a one-man, over-produced, bedroom-studio outfit, this ain't gonna fly.
    While offering a 'pay what you can' system works when the audience can SEE you, using the internet to offer 'pay what you can' has yet to prove itself as a means of actually making money. (Radiohead doesn't count).

    Internet users have, from the get-go, been under the impression that what is on the internet is or should be free.

    On an unrelated note: I suppose if you're offering a pile of CD's at 'pay what you can,' you wouldn't be Pressing 30 Cd's, you'd be burning them, and sharpy-ing up that stuff.
    I guess that music in any format is still music, which is all you need, but I'm always a little disappointed by the sharpy-labelled CD-R demo that some bands pass out. It just seems financially unfeasible to be actually pressing all of those CDs.

  44. Scott Peckenpaugh (2009-09-21) #

    this is brilliant! and right in line with my understanding of the way the economics of the arts must be as we move into the future. i haven't been playing out enough to do the kind of analysis you're asking for, but i have a show coming up soon and i think i'll try this anyway.

  45. Peter Lucibelli (2009-09-21) #

    This seems to make a lot of sense. I went to a friends CD release a few years back. He had a medium crowd in a mid sized bar. He tried selling them and sold 4. The rest of the people left and only 4 had his music.
    I recently had my CD release and there was a bit over 200 there. I said to the crowd of how much I appreciated them coming. I said whoever wants a CD please take one. Almost 200 people walked out with my music and now I get emails asking when the next gig is. The next one I will sell some and try this approach you talked about.

  46. Brian (2009-09-21) #

    we did this online with our latest cd using bandcamp (www.foolingapril.bandcamp.com) and basically is pay what you want (and we get email addresses for everyone regardless if they pay or not. I'm shocked I don't have hundreds of people downloading it as I have been pumping the hell out of it promotion-wise. it's even hard to give shit away nowadays!

  47. Gary Alt (2009-09-21) #

    Will have to try that. Interestingly, I recently did a gig with an acoustic trio I play with in addition to my full band, and we of course plugged our respective CDs everytime an original came out. Also, for the first time, we put out a tip jar, being that this was a very small venue.

    The result was we got quite a bit of money in the tip jar, but sold NO CDs! It's far more important to me that people hear my recorded music than give me money (I do have a day job), and it's beyond me why someone would slip a Jackson in a jar and not take a CD or two off the nearby table, but that's what happened.

    Any thoughts?

  48. Blasko (2009-09-21) #

    We have to buy CD's from our label for $6 that we sell on the road. Even if we ended up selling more, all the ones that we gave away for free we would end going out of pocket. This is a great idea if you get your product for free. I don't see this working in our situation.
    You don't see a potential doubling of attendance, and 400% increase of CD sales working for you? Make sure you read the numbers. This would be profitable for you, even at $6 wholesale per CD. -- Derek

  49. Belinda Metz (2009-09-21) #

    I agree with this method......the record dudes of the 80's really hurt many great artists....this is a positive way to share & create abundance for the artist & their fans....

  50. Mykel (2009-09-21) #

    Awesome idea.

    Halloween is one of my big audience opportunities.
    In the past I have just performed for free because of the venue.

    This time I will definately make sure EVERYONE walks away with a free cd or access to free download to the cd for attending and seeing me perform.

    M

  51. Corey TuT (2009-09-21) #

    I started doing a "pay what you will" a few shows back and have easily tripled my cash intake. I was charging $10 before, but have found that people give at least that, some even have given me $20 for one CD!!! I think this method lets people feel like they are really supporting the artist of their own right...plus they don't wanna look cheapsmile I haven't given them away, but I think that is a good tactic...I'll definitely try this approach.

    Thanks for another great post Derek!

  52. Enoch 7th Prophet (2009-09-21) #

    I will try this for sure.
    Give thanks

  53. Anny (2009-09-21) #

    When I go to see my friends play, I pay at the door. When they release a new CD, I buy it.
    When I see a new band I really like, I show my support by buying their CD. I know the costs of putting music out in the world, emotional, physical and financial. Artists should be supported in that. If they give their music away it devalues their efforts and tells people their product is worthless. Why should people expect to get music for free? The bar certainly doesn't give them free beer in hopes that they'll feel an emotional connection with the bartender and come back and spend a lot of money. This model is disrespectful to artists.

  54. Johannes RaassinaJohannes Raassina (2009-09-21) #

    Thanks Derek -

    My band Shaimus is definitely trying this. Considering our cost is around $2 per CD this seems like a fair "acquisition fee" for potential fans... Especially in cities we've never played before!

    Also, at this time in our career, recognition and spreading the word are much more important than immediate profit.

    PS: Twitter and Facebook didn't become profitable until after a few years of campaigning. (and I'm sure most bands are the same way)

  55. Matt Shamus (2009-09-21) #

    We have been using this "giveaway concept with many artists recently and have had excellent results as well. The social connection between the artist and the fan (esp. at the live show!) can be VERY POWERFUL! We use download cards redeemable at the artists website, so there are actually a few additional variables involved that make this an even BETTER proposition to the artist (here are a few):

    1) Download cards are a lot cheaper to produce than CDs (and a lot less bulk to be carrying on tour) so your margin is higher and you can afford to give away more music to reach potential fans

    2) Our artists are collecting an email address from each fan that redeems their free download card, so they're using that database to market to those fans in the future

    3) Our artists are letting fans redeem their download cards from the ARTIST'S website, so they're driving much more fan web traffic and increasing chances for other merch sales once there

    No matter the tactical method you use (CDs vs. download cards), I would agree that this is a concept that should be employed much more often by artists! However, don't try to fool your fans...you have to BELIEVE in the concept, or it's just not going to work for you...

  56. Valerie Shearman (2009-09-21) #

    Hello, I a a singer songwriter and have done this in the past and it's does work great, I even gave them a signed poster with the cd weather they gave me a music donation or not?
    People loved it and remembered me the next time AND MY SONGS!!!
    good idea i hope u try it..
    v

  57. Fredrik (2009-09-21) #

    hmmm yes i will try it out!!!

  58. Lance E. Zechinato (2009-09-21) #

    Typical Sivers post: genius! =) Seriously, this is great. Much appreciated.

  59. JaVonne Armstrong (2009-09-21) #

    This could work, if I were getting more gigs LOL! But I will definitely try it smile

  60. Flemming Behrend (2009-09-21) #

    Awesome Idea!!! I'll try it and let you know what happens.
    thanks Derek

  61. Steve Blanchard (2009-09-21) #

    We have been doing this for the past year with HUGE success over the hard sell. We had a guy give us $50 for a disc once. That covers a bunch of freebies...

  62. Larry Wolkan (2009-09-21) #

    I've done something similar to this a couple times and had no problem having people take a CD, but very little in making any money back... We took a hit each time so I am a bit reluctant to do it very often...especially with large crowds....

  63. Brian Theoret (2009-09-21) #

    This sounds like a fantastic idea. Finding many ways to really connect emotionally with your fans is a great accomplishment.

    I will definitely be trying this out.

  64. Jason (2009-09-21) #

    This is a great novel idea. unfortunately this is not good if it becomes too commons place. What I mean is this would work great if you get in on it from the start! The problem is once word spreads among bands and all bands use this technique at shows then people will be forced to choose which ones they pay for.

    This means if everyone does it will cause sale prices to drop or only 1 or 2 out of the 1-5 bands playing will get paid. No one will pay the most for every CD there. Then it will fall back on what it always does, your performance.

    If everyone makes the same requests, then it is no longer unique and becomes common place. People will start to ignore it or the connection will no longer be as true.

  65. Colie BriceColie Brice (2009-09-21) #

    Asbury Park, NJ is a tough market.. Most of the time the clubs are filled with fellow musicians and people are leery and weary of getting even free CDs..

    It would seems that we have too many producers and not enough patrons in this little scene..

  66. erwin (2009-09-21) #

    yes, this is a great idea. On a smaller scale, I've tried similar strategies in the past and it does definitely work. It feels great to give the CD and make sure everyone in the audience has one - so the music can be heard. Thanks Derek, keep the ideas flowing smile

  67. Ed "Tem Noon" Bernstein (2009-09-21) #

    Have you seen http://cashmusic.org/ ? They have set up an internet model very much like the "take a CD, pay what you want", with a download and pay what you want. Kristin Hersh (and husband/manager Billy O) of Throwing Muses fame was instrumental in starting this, and distributes through it. Very much worth a look.

    Some bands can take the giving away of CDs too far. In Derek's model, anyone who wants a CD gets one, and they have to come to the sales table to ask for one.

    I have seen plenty of bands handing out CDs to people who didn't ask first, but were asked one to one "Do you want a CD?" People will take it, but may never listen to it.

  68. AnnetteAnnette (2009-09-21) #

    We are definitely going to try this. From experience already, we tend to get a lot more action from offering stuff for free or incentives. Most of the time people even insist on giving us money for things.

  69. Lorelei Loveridge (2009-09-21) #

    There's a really critical point to examine here. This is a band that is already moving $300 worth of product a night, on average. That means there is already a level of success and a buzz that can be further upped by offering freebies up to those who haven't yet bought. There's surely enough of an audience already paying to attend shows to justify the giveaway...perhaps because there's a shred of income already coming in. But if you're in the UK and money is scarce (you wouldn't believe the number of bands/artists who are losing money left right and centre, not earning from paying gigs because they're so scarce...it demands real thought around strategy. I find myself wondering after a very successful night at a popular open mic night in Manchester, UK - and a major label artist from the city was in attendance on the list as well - I find myself wondering how many CD's I'd have to give away up front before there was a noticeable recouping of losses. One can only try. But should this be with open mic gigs, such as the Gibson Guitar event I just did at the Hard Rock, or with any, or with paying gigs only? There's some differentiation that's going on in my mind...wondering what the other factors of success here are. Thanks for the idea, though. Good one. I will be testing it.

  70. Damon (2009-09-21) #

    I find that results vary depending on the venue. Offering CDs for whatever you want to pay at an expensive restaurant means people pay me 20 bucks. At a coffee shop near the college I average a buck a CD and don't sell any more than I did when I listed the price as 10 or 15 dollars. Attendance at my shows has been the same regardless of whether I've sold CDs or given them away at that venue.

    The bottom line is that it cost me the price of a new Honda Civic to record my CD. I'll be damned if I'm going to give it away.

  71. Brian Tremblay (2009-09-21) #

    Might as well give 'em away 'cause no one is sure as hell buying them. Maybe I should take that as a hint smile

  72. Brian John MitchellBrian John Mitchell (2009-09-21) #

    When I go on tour I get tons of free music from other acts & to be honest I rarely find myself playing them. As others have said, one of the variables is clearly going to be how good the live show is. I do however think doing something where people sign up for a regional email blast in exchange for a free download is well worth it. I'm planning on starting to do more with exchanging free downloads for email addresses & zip codes.

  73. Amandah Jantzen (2009-09-21) #

    I do a version of this-- I sell CDs on gigs, but I also give out gifts at a lot of the concerts; either promotional DVDs of previous shows, or "photo discs" (non-tourist pix from the various countries I've traveled in Asia), or live audio recordings of audience favorites--(this goes over quite well and was a breeze to put together.)

    At every turn, the guests feel a little more special and have something to take home for having been there. Often they stay in touch and return many times over to other shows. (every gift has a business card enclosed)

    Unlike a lot of bands, I'm often playing the same venue 4-6 nights a week for 3-6 months at a time, so there is a different vibe than a one or two night show.

    I don't have any sales figures for comparison, nor do I specifically announce for everyone to take one, but I do give the gifts out freely as I meet & chat with guests, and I seem to sell a lot more CDs when I do this, even though I am not doing it so much to boost sales, that's just a by-product.

    I'm actually doing it because I really enjoy most of the people who come to my shows and they love the music so I want to give them more of it.

  74. Lorelei Loveridge (2009-09-21) #

    I should add...I ran my mailing list around last night and obtained 30 email addresses. If 30 people, practically the entire room at that point (small but standing room only), approach me for CD's, that's a lot of up-front costing. Because only 1 person bought an album, and it was the friend who came along. The big debate is really around doing this at open-mic night gigs, I suppose. Any thoughts on that, versus gigs that are proper showcase gigs/bookings?

  75. Justin Schroder (2009-09-21) #

    Often, when I start a new service in my work, I will often leave the price a choice for my customer. I have found that I am too concerned about over-charging and the customer will pay me more that I thought; especially if there is no competition with which to compare.

    Justin

  76. Carl Decuir (2009-09-21) #

    1st heard this done by a taxi driver who said pay what u can even if nothin and his business did better than others as well...

  77. Nick Depew (2009-09-21) #

    We're about a month away from having our new disc available for sale, and the ideas here are definitely intriguing. We've thought about some similar options. At shows you can have the produced and packaged CD available for sale at a regular price, and have a pile of burned copies available for free (and/or donation). The burned copies could contain the full album, or just a couple singles. If you go with the singles approach, also give people a business card for your website where they can download another track for free. Even if you only have a MySpace Music page, you can still make a track free to download.

  78. Lorelei Loveridge (2009-09-21) #

    In fact, the thing I was going to try was to give away the album online to anyone who signs up to my mailing list. It's scary, but at least it doesn't cost me the manufacturing. Just time.

  79. Gary Alt (2009-09-21) #

    This is probably the 1st blog that I read all the comments on!

    To those who feel that people are wary or even free CDs, in case they won't like the CD... If your band sucks, nobody will want your CD. If your band performs splendidly, LOTS of people will want your CD. It's that simple.

  80. mattmck (2009-09-21) #

    This is awesome.
    We heard this from Terry a while back and put it into effect. We were playing high school shows, and we went from moving 5-10 CDs regularly (for a crowd of 300-400) to moving 150 CDs! Regularly!
    Some would take it for free, but the ones that paid, "overpaid" and we more than covered the cost of cds!

  81. Matt Hammer (2009-09-21) #

    Growing your fan base is always the most important thing you can do at any stage of your career. Besides... if you put your best CD out with this option and your fans like it, they will probably buy the rest of your catalog.

  82. Lorelei Loveridge (2009-09-21) #

    The other idea is to package an EP of 5 songs (of 15) into an email-able thank you, and send that off to those who sign up on the list. The same can be done on disc to be given away at gigs. I have seen this done. A full CD (and packaged nicely) for sale. The freebie for those who can't afford the album. Not sure if it was the same music. But if this is about giving value, then it should be.

  83. Rhan Wilson (2009-09-21) #

    With several gigs coming up, I find this a perfect opportunity to give away some of my "Altared Christmas" cds that I have been storing for so long. With such a small window of opportunity to sell a holiday product, I find this a perfect idea to promote my "Altared Christmas" show here in Santa Cruz, as well as to connect to new fans in a way that is generous in spirit. Yes, there is a cost, but so is there a cost in advertising, business cards, posters, and fliers that are given away without a second thought.

    Attaching a biz card of flier to these give-aways is also a great idea.

    And, as your article mentions, it can actually lead to INCREASED sales and attendance.

    Right on.

    Rhan Wilson

  84. Amy Humphrey (2009-09-21) #

    I'm glad to read Colie's comment, as it's always been our experience that people see free (or pay-what-you-want) as, 1. The CD is rubbish and/or 2. The band is desperate. I'm willing to give it another go trying this exact tactic, but past experience hasn't borne this out to be successful for any of the bands I've seen. I would be interested to know if genre and region had any bearing on the results.
    It's all in how you're talking about it. It's not saying “Our CD is free!” It's saying “We poured our heart into this CD and it would mean a lot to us if you would please have one. Pay whatever you want, even if that has to be nothing.” Very very different pitch. -- Derek

  85. Dorothy Potter (2009-09-21) #

    Dear Derek,

    While I agree with another writer that the "free" model never ever pays off, neither do CDs sitting in a box in my closet pay off.

    The Free model is problematic in general. I never do free gigs anymore unless it's for a cause and they at least do the work to provide a meal, a decent sound system and transportation. As a matter of fact, I find that the more I ask, the more I make.

    I don't think I'll produce CDs anymore. It's all downloads for me from here on out.

    I'll let you know how the great giveaway goes on October 7 in New Hope at John & Peter's. (hint hint!)

    Dorothy

  86. Cornelius von Jackhelln (2009-09-21) #

    I really would like Derek to answer Anny's post above, which I quote here:

    "When I go to see my friends play, I pay at the door. When they release a new CD, I buy it.
    When I see a new band I really like, I show my support by buying their CD. I know the costs of putting music out in the world, emotional, physical and financial. Artists should be supported in that. If they give their music away it devalues their efforts and tells people their product is worthless. Why should people expect to get music for free? The bar certainly doesn't give them free beer in hopes that they'll feel an emotional connection with the bartender and come back and spend a lot of money. This model is disrespectful to artists."

    I really think Anny's post presents a real objection to the "give away for free and they will love you in the end" model that is becoming increasingly popular. With kids growing up paying for beer but not for music, the music business - be it individual artists or bigger companies - is bound to strive for generations.

    I think they will take that free 6-page digipack with an inlay card that it took years to write and 15.000 USD to produce and print - but recouping by giving it away? Hmm.
    The comments here are making me feel I didn't do a good job explaining this. THIS IS NOT ABOUT GIVING AWAY YOUR CD FOR FREE. This is about making an emotional appeal to people, letting them know how much it means to you as a musician that poured your heart and time into making this album. It's about changing your request so that you let them know that what's most important to you is that they have the CD. The money is secondary. Pay what you can, or nothing if you can't, but please make sure you get our album no matter what.
    Point being: this approach as been proven in different ways (even with chicken eggs at a farmer's market) to make MORE PEOPLE BUY, not make more people take it for free. This should increase paid sales, if done right. -- Derek

  87. Matthew Checker (2009-09-21) #

    I keep hearing this kind of success on the net, but I am cautious. Although I almost always get great feedback about my gigs - the takings have always been inappropriately small when doing the passing the hat around thing, which is parallel to other donation ideas. I know for certain this has nothing to do with lack of quality. Some people just don't realise what efforts are involved in a quality performance. But I suppose it could make a difference if you explain how much work you have done with passion and make sure you integrate the audience every as much as possible.

  88. Steve Bruce (2009-09-21) #

    Hi Derek,
    Thank you for this great idea! I remember the "Emotional" connection when I performed a tour called "Heroes In Our World". Here the emotional connection really worked when performing songs about everyday heroes in the lives of young people in elementary schools. I talked and sang about their Moms, Dads, Teachers, Doctors, Sports Heroes, Explorers, Astronauts, etc. Also sang to the young people about teaming up to actually end human starvation throughout earth.

    Performing in schools... one is not allowed to give away products. However, this emotional connection was very evident. When the young people saw me a second time... they treated me like royalty. It was pretty special. YES... from my experience, the emotional connection works! People can see three clips from my live performances on:
    http:www.thecount.org/breakthrough.html

    Thanks again Derek,
    Steve Bruce

  89. Solitoode (2009-09-21) #

    This is great for the live-performing act but not-so-great for the solo non-performing act (obviously). I have been trying this online by allowing my music to be downloaded for free and receiving a small fee in return ($0.15 per song) that is generated through advertising revenue. And so far, this hasn't really been a very opportunistic venture. The emotional aspect does play a key role in attracting people to your music and even though I have made connections with people with my music, it just isn't getting anywhere. Seems like the only thing that is working for me is through radio-play where I am not directly involved and the listener has made the connection on their own. I would love to hear something that has been working for all of us artists that are soloists and aren't doing a stage show.

    smile

    Solitoode

    PS. Also some very interesting comments here! Great topic, Derek!

  90. Austin Brandt (2009-09-21) #

    This is exactly the kind of methodology we are trying to instill in musicians with Beatnex. We're still prototyping right now, but hopefully soon our services will make it extremely reasonable for bands of all popularity to pursue this model.

    The CD is not dead in the water, it is the ultimate promotion vehicle!

  91. jason (2009-09-21) #

    this is somewhat of an extension of allowing fans to record shows like the grateful dead, phish, dave matthews, widespread panic, etc have been doing for quite a long time.

    the benefit here is that they walk away with the actually cd. i would almost rather just have a way to download an mp3 of the show i was at, but that's a little more complicated for a small time act.

  92. Fabrice Absil (2009-09-21) #

    i share the opinion of MATT SHAMUS & BRIAN MITCHEL are. the show must be great , emotionnal & then people leave the place wishing to bring back home something . Download cards, Cd whatever you want must have a nice packaging or look .

    But at the very end what we all, in the music field, are aiming ,is to find TIME in the timeschedule of fans, connected persons etc ; to listen to our music or the music of the artists we work with. I only work with artist with great live emotion , pushing them always to do better & better & to have an interesting set of songs / musics .
    Music is either an emotionnal tune or a great song with great lyrics. Show must be original & emotionnal. if you are out of this times are tough as competition is a million times bigger it was in the past.

  93. Jeff Aug (2009-09-21) #

    I am about ready to head out on a tour performing as support for an act that pulls in anywhere from 200 to 350 persons a night. I think I only have 400 copies of my cd left. If I did this tactic, I think I would run out of copies after 2 nights (of a 14 show tour). If I don´t come out with enough for a 2nd pressing, I´ll be up %§#t´s creak w/out a paddle!
    But if you were selling those CDs for an average of $10 that's $4000 income for those remaining 400 CDs. The need for a quick second pressing is a good problem to have. -- Derek

  94. Rhonda Niden (2009-09-21) #

    I think this is a good idea (a common practice at cd release parties)... to make it perhaps more effective at a general performance ...

    Market the give away in the advertising for the band's upcoming gig.

    A personalized message and closing with signatures of the band members. Something like this:

    "THE BAND" October 25th -- 8pm -- at the "VENUE" --- "We would like to invite you to receive a complimentary copy of our (new) cd prior to the performance!!!"

    note: To the first 50 to arrive.

    This does a couple of things...presents the band in a good light and helps increase exposure of their music.
    Hmm... I have to disagree. Let people pay. Most people LIKE to pay you! It makes them feel good to support you. The free option should only be for those who can't or don't want to pay. But the default should always be to pay. -- Derek

  95. Steve Kusaba (2009-09-21) #

    This is very good, building a base is what the business is, exclusively.

    But don't do what I did.I fractured my wrist and could not play guitar so I told knock knock jokes all night without the band. My base is very small now. I think if I had made knock knock cd's the audience could have had something to remember the night by, rather than that they booed as hard as they ever did in their life.

  96. Kelly Pardekooper (2009-09-21) #

    These days most my music biz $ is licensing/publishing and digital...so the CD's are easy to give away now and fans love it. All five titles are set at $5 deal on CD Baby. Better than brown boxes in the basement pissing off my wife. RIP CD era...

  97. Grant (2009-09-21) #

    this worked very, very well for a band from Springfield, MO called Jah Roots for several years. We inundated an area with free cd's, asking for whatever they could spare, making a ton of friends. Then, the next time we returned to the area, complete domination. one-in-one out shows. the band is no more, but i'll try to get you more numbers on the solo album i drop in December. Thanks D-rock!

  98. rob (2009-09-21) #

    this has worked wonderfully for us. we tell people you pay us what you can - if that's nothing, then so be it. what i've found is that for every CD i get a buck for, someone else is going to pay 10. at one show a woman noticed that we were getting 2-3 bucks a cd and decided she wanted 2 of them and gave us 20 bucks apiece for them. if you haven't tried it, give it a shot - it's definitely worth it.

  99. Angela Stribling (2009-09-21) #

    Hi Derek!

    You're like having a personal muse! ;-)

    Thank you for this and all of your insights.

    XOXOXO

    Angela

  100. Robert Davis (2009-09-21) #

    I used to give a CD away to draw a crowd at my children's music shows. Gave away lots. Rarely got a thank you when I gave a child a CD. That's OK, but I always hoped one day I'd get an email or a letter of thanks for having given them a CD and they'd enjoyed it. Oh well, here's a CD.

  101. Seth Z (2009-09-21) #

    Did this about a year ago with a band I was playing with. At the last minute, I decided to print up 20 CD's to see if we could sell. I gave the box to the lead singer, who said that I would get paid whatever people paid for the CD's. I told him to give them away. Get the publicity. He made the announcement of Pay what you want, or just take one.
    We made about 35 bucks on the CD's, and ran out of the CD's! (a very good problem to have) I thought that was a great job of promotion!!!
    I have moved far away from where the band plays, and saw that a year later, they played at the same place, and the place was jammed with folks!
    This will be done again with the current band that I am a part of. We are off to the studio, and will put this promotion tactic into play.
    Thanks so much for this again!

  102. David Helton (2009-09-21) #

    I think this is a cool idea and I can't wait to try it out with my next band.Keep the fresh ideas comin', bro.

  103. David Knopfler (2009-09-21) #

    Interesting idea... just pondering the extra pressing of CDs needed and the extra truck to carry the CDs ;)

  104. Megan (2009-09-21) #

    My CD has been out for a while and I've notice the sales have started to slow down. So, a few months ago I started selling them at the "whatever you can afford" price.

    I never would have thought this would work!

  105. mark buck (2009-09-21) #

    I did a support for Jose Feliciano in London once and did this, I went into the audience and I was absolutely mobbed. It was great, some people paid, some grabbed some really, really overpaid. We ran out in 2 minutes. Most people are actually very generous.

  106. Rich Baumann (2009-09-21) #

    I was a busker for many years, and the majority of my income was CD sales. I would always try to trust someone for the price of a CD each day if they seemed at all interested.
    I have received many checks in the mail months and sometimes years later with notes of appreciation for trust and apologies for forgetting for so long.

    richbaumann dot com

  107. David Knopfler (2009-09-21) #

    It certainly couldn't hurt to try it on the last date of a tour when you want to clear out your remaining stock
    If it would quadruple your sales and income, why would you wait until the last date? -- Derek

  108. Betsy Grant (2009-09-21) #

    I, like Stan, am a recording artist only. It is certainly harder to "connect emotionally" with listeners this way. For me the question is "how do I get listeners to connect emotionally with my music? How do I market my music to those that would benefit?

  109. Greg Allen MorgoglioneGreg Allen Morgoglione (2009-09-21) #

    Have been giving it away for years, and emphasizing the base concept of living the lyrics through the SongSharing non-profit dedicated to Making Music More Accessible(tm) - www.audienceinclusion.org.

    Have just written a book to complement our most recent CD, and will continue the giving it away philosophy.

    Best of Now, always,

    Greg Allen and Alice the Canine Messiah

  110. Dafni (2009-09-21) #

    I've started selling my CDs for $5 instead of $10, and this has also helped in CD sales. I might not be making as much money, but my music gets out there -- which is the most important thing to me. All that said, I think your post is a great idea -- I'm going to try this at my next show!

  111. Bridget KelleyBridget Kelley (2009-09-21) #

    Thank you for this excellent idea! Whenever we go to customer shows, we notice how difficult it is for many of them to ask people to buy their CDs. They want to come across as artists, not salesmen.

    Would you be cool with us re-posting this in our newsletter? As you know, many of our clients are touring musicians and they'd make an excellent sample group. Viva la CD!

  112. Rock Moran (2009-09-21) #

    Call me a Scrooge but I agree with Ian Bruce---This is for very good musicians, which most are not!--- I think the emmotional connection to the audience is the secret--not the pay as you like CD's-- Rock

  113. Tania (2009-09-21) #

    I've done free downloads before and that is a great way to get the word out. I will try the idea you suggest at my next show. That is great. http://taniacordobes.com Shoot me a note referencing this blog and I'll send you a free download!

  114. Monica Jerome (2009-09-21) #

    I'm astonished by the numbers I'm hearing here. The overwhelming majority of musicians and bands I know here in New York -- and I'm talking dozens and dozens of excellent, hardworking performers -- rarely manage to get anyone at a show to buy their CDs at all, at any price. Every single one of us would KILL to make "merely" $300 from CD sales in a single night. What in God's name are you all doing?

  115. Cathy Wilde (2009-09-21) #

    We're a niche-type (Irish music) band so we don't gig much outside St. Pat's and a few Irish festivals. So from the get-go we figured the only way we could grow was virally, or in our case maybe even more slowly ... fungally?
    Anyway, with this in mind, we made our CD in its entirety available on our website for online listening. And even though people can listen for free online, we sell about five CDs a month from the site anyway.
    We also give CDs away to a fair number of people (especially those who hire us for gigs) because we tend to view them as sort of "audio business cards," that might also promote general goodwill. And basically, if we can't share our music at a show, we're just happy to share it. We also only charge $10 for the CD.
    We haven't tried your idea as such, but I'll mention it to the band. We usually sell between 5 & 20 CDs per gig and given that we generally play to small or very drunk audiences we haven't felt too bad about that, but hey. Ya never know, and I think we're down to our last 100, so -- if we get bold and try it I'll report back. Thanks for the forum!

  116. Neddy Smith (2009-09-21) #

    I like the idea. This method should work even in Europe for me next year while on my tour...but how many CDs will I be allowed to carry without too much customs cost will be the next test?

  117. roye (2009-09-21) #

    The idea is good Derek..however the venue operator demands a percentage of your merchandise at the end of the show which is between 20-25 percent..so..this will be deducted..this leaves very little in the way of usable income from the merch stand.

  118. Taz Taylor (2009-09-21) #

    Nice story ! My experiences are the opposite though infact. When given the chance for something for free most people will take it but not value it. People constantly ask for free copies of my music. Since I am no longer desperate for their attention and approval, I no longer give it away. If they are truly interested they will purchase it. As I said it is a nice story, but the fact that the author can't "remeember" what band it was makes it just that..."a nice story"
    To be fair: This was just Terry talking to some other music biz people and he might not have even mentioned which act it was, since the real point was trying this approach for other artists. -- Derek

  119. Rejyna Douglass-WhitmanRejyna Douglass-Whitman (2009-09-21) #

    Worth careful consideration as long as there is a STRICT following of the exact pitch and approach (free ONLY if they can't pay something/anything) this band used - otherwise it is desperation in a new cloak...and will been seen by the savvy as such...

    We are also experimenting daily with these types of inticements using download cards and/or codes as well as CD's -

    Thanks again Derek, you get yet another A++ for intent and effort smile

  120. Randy Haaga (2009-09-21) #

    I don't believe artists should do any kind of sales pitch from the stage. I don't think a front man should ever ask the audience to purchase anything at all. People want to see a show they don't want to see an infomercial. It's not a carnival it's a concert.

    When I lived in clubs I used that kind of behavior as a indicator to separate the important bands from the other kind. The best bands do not sell from the stage. Fans will buy if they like you, if you have to ask....

    I do agree the idea has a great benefit and we all need more money. So maybe you have your merchandise guy or guitar tech or some hot girl do a sales pitch on stage before or after the show. If the artists are doing the hand to hand sales, that's when it okay to be a sales person.

    Yes, the band I worked for sold tons of merchandise and never mentioned it at all from the stage.

  121. Helge KrabyeHelge Krabye (2009-09-21) #

    I am not performing live, so I can't test this theory. I know that it's easier to sell CD's after a live show than from a personal web site, though. - What I am really confused about, is the obvious conflict between these two theories, which pop up every other day among the advice given by people like you, Derek:

    1. Don't give your music away for free or sell your CD's too cheap. That will only communicate that your music is no good. If you set a proper price, you will communicate that your music has value - and people are used to paying for value.

    2. The most important is to reach new listeners with your music, so set all your tracks as free downloads. Don't bother about trying to earn a lot from your music - give it away to anybody who wants it, and let the buyers decide the price!

    Personally, I have never bought a CD or downloaded a track because it was free. If I love a piece of music, I am willing to pay for it.

  122. Scott AndrewScott Andrew (2009-09-21) #

    I've done this at live shows and on the web. It works. Especially if you're playing a new venue to a crowd of strangers, or to an audience that is typically know to be broke, like college students.

    Every CD you end up taking home is a lost opportunity. Over the long term of your career, a free CD given to a potential fan is worth far more than unsold CDs sitting in your basement.

    I like to think of it like potential energy, like a rock on a hillside. Nothing happens until you get it rolling. Roll a few more rocks. What happens? Maybe nothing. Maybe an avalanche!

    But you'll have a hard time creating an avalanche if you're insisting people pay you $15 before you roll a rock.
    Heheh... Love the metaphor. Rock & roll, baby! smile -- Derek

  123. Matt (2009-09-21) #

    I think you have to keep the audience in mind as well. This would probably work really well for older audiences. There's the social mentality of "everyone is getting one, so I have to get one," and then "most people are paying, I should probably pay too".

    With younger audiences, I'm not so sure this would work. These are the ones who download music online knowing that they're stealing it. If you give them the opportunity to have it for free, I feel like that is the option they're going to chose, and not care much about the social aspect, because they have no respect for the craft. And one shouldn't confuse fans enjoying one's music, and fans having respect for the craft. They're different things. I know this is generalizing, so again, you have to know your audience.

    I also wonder how well this would work for flat rate gigs. If your primary merch is your CD, and you're actually losing money on each CD in the process, I don't see how this really helps you. Yes, you're gaining more fans, but if the gigs are flat rate (as they generally are in certain genres of music), then the number of people in attendance doesn't do much for you business-wise. On a musical level, it's great. But I think music and business have to be thought about separately.

  124. Peter (2009-09-21) #

    "Pay what you can" really works.

    My wife djs and she makes 2-3x times as much as other djs at the same venue. They all use a flat cover and she went the pay what you can route.

    People are more than happy to pay if they have a good time.. and they will pay much more out of generosity than if you demanded a certain amount.

  125. John Robles (2009-09-21) #

    Hey Derek.
    This is the first time I have read all the comments too. I must admit that this idea scares me, especially since we had an executive producer front the money and sales are paying him back. But we play at a club where we once in a while sell one or two, and we paly at an upscale restaurant where the same thing happens. But I am going to try it at the upscale place tonight. Tips at the club tend to be one or two bucks each, tips at the restaurant tend to be $5 each. I think this idea will work there, though not at the club because it is noisy and full of young people who would rather buy beer and get drunk!
    Thanks for all your input and support of artists!

  126. Jody WhitesidesJody Whitesides (2009-09-21) #

    This coincides with the idea that people should want to have the music. When you make something they want and they pay for it and feel good about it, they will win, you will win, and everyone is happy.

    It's a thing I've already been doing. Only, I've been too wrapped up in other matters to put effort into the live shows recently. It does work.

  127. Richard Lynch (2009-09-21) #

    I think this works best for bands with "accessible" music, or, to go to an extreme, a "party" band.

    That said, getting creative about how you give/sell your music has worked out fairly well for others too.

    Even a give-away where they put their name/email in a fishbowl for your entire life's work, for example.

    You get a lot of emails, and a fan who has your entire collection.

  128. Dan Silakiewicz (2009-09-21) #

    Generally, I find throwing yourself on others' generosity works out in the end. At my last gig I gave away 1 CD, sold one for $10 (it was all he had) and sold 6 more. Though I asked $15 each, 3 sold for $20 because people liked what we were putting out at the show. I really think if the goods are there, people will support you. If you suck (whether you really suck, you're having an off night, or the crowd just isn't into what you're doing) then it'll be a struggle. Selling or giving away your CD depends mostly on your relationship to your audience.

  129. Darrell Looney (2009-09-21) #

    We're a local funk/jazz band in NYC. My problem is that to do these gigs, most are freebies/door gigs which the band members don't want to play, and since we don't play regularly there's no buzz generated to build up an audience. We still get 5 different people to a show on average (2 to 3 may be the same peeps), but this no where meets the club's "door minimums" to get paid.I've given away many CD's at shows and sold some too. It all makes no difference if the consistency in playing live isn't there, say at least once per month. Interested in trying the "emotional connection" approach, but I've got to find some truly funky cats willing to jump in and do this for the love of the music first!

  130. Cliff Meekins (2009-09-21) #

    Sounds like a really good idea. Your music will often grow on people this way if they got a CD. I can't tell you how many times I've given CDs out to radio and press and they didn't even listen to it and simply threw them away. We are currently doing this idea with singles and we've made more money in return for a single song than a full album. The only bad thing about CD replication is the cost is the same for 1 track as it is 20 tracks however, just print a two sided J-Card instead of a 10 page booklet that saves a ton of green. I told my artist "Carl Wayne Meekins" to give them away like business cards and many people ask "How much do I owe you" and he just says, "A small donation would be great but by all means please take one we'd love for you to have it" Our next idea is by way of an "EPK" instead of being on the web like sonicbids ect. I'm thinking of making "Data Discs" with all the files on it. Carl was asking me how we could deliver or websites and links to the press and radio through the traditional snail mail. Sooooo we're going to start with 100 "Data Discs" and call them our "Electronic Press Kit" print out a two side J-card just like we would do with a single and get full printing on the data disc and load the files on it ourselfs as we need them. The "EPK" will include Lyric sheets, artwork, J-card, Stills, the MP3s Bio, Press Release, everything. We could even put a video on it if there's enough room. We'll be making a half page full-color mini-poster flyer to go with the Data disc and of coarse a cover letter explaining why an "EPK" instead of a CD. Anyways, I'll let you know how this idea crosses over to the media I send it too. Hopefully we will see some sort of result. Data Discs can be made super cheap with J-Cards and you can get a min. order instead of a min. run of a thousand. Most of our new material is being released on singles in the digital media now a days, so we're trying to update the way we submit our materials to the press. I do think you will get a bigger audience by getting your music in their hands, If you can get some money back that's all the better. Any business has to loose some money before they start pouring it in. Maybe try making a Demo CD-R and take donations for that with the plea of "We're" currently trying to get the funds to record our album and Manufacture CDs, any donation would help. CD-Rs are cheap enough I don't think you'll loose much if any at all. Good Topic! All the Best - Earl

  131. Amy Humphrey (2009-09-21) #

    Thanks for taking the time to respond to my comment. I do understand the difference in pitch, and having not tried that approach personally, I definitely think it bears investigation and experimentation.

    Having heard that particular pitch from other bands, though, and speaking with them after the show, I don't recall anyone having had the kinds of successes people are reporting here. That's why I was curious to know if this held true across genre, demographic, and geographic region. The numbers indicate that this is a valid approach and I will be curious to see how it affects our show results.

    I will say that more often than not, I have seen brilliant live performances, been given (or bought) a CD, and found it to be (bless their hearts) essentially unlistenable because of recording quality. I wonder if, in certain circumstances or with certain crowds, some people would equate the impassioned pay-as-you-wish approach as the equivalent to saying, "I couldn't invest much in this recording financially so I won't expect you to, either, I just want to show my appreciation for you being at the show and sharing it with us." Your numbers, and those of others posted here, prove that people are willing to take the risk and buy what could be a substandard recording just so that they feel like they're helping the artist.

    I guess there's a deeper psychology here than I understand; I need to delve more into the social v. market mindset, but for now, I just wanted to play devil's advocate and express our own personal experiences. I'll be interested to follow the incoming data… smile

  132. Lobelia (2009-09-21) #

    We do this quite often, especially when touring in mainland Europe, because CDs are so bloody expensive over there. Since most of the shows that we play are house concerts, we are already making a deeper emotional connection than one would normally make at a club gig, and we end up making way more money from merch sales this way, as well as having 20-100 people who are going to go out and tell their friends about the whole experience, and also are more likely to host their own house concert in the future. It's win win for all.

  133. Matt Jones (2009-09-21) #

    Great idea, thanks for posting! I'm definitely going to try this at my next show.

    Matt

  134. Anne RoosAnne Roos (2009-09-21) #

    As a soloist who performs at few public shows per year, I use a variance of this idea for my private clients. I gift my clients with a CD at the end of my performance at weddings, corporate gigs, receptions, etc. I do this in front of others who are there, I sign the CD in front of others, and give it to the client. Others may ask for my business card as I'm leaving, and they may want to purchase a CD. But the most important thing that happens is that CD becomes an audio business card that my client shares with their friends and colleagues.

    This simply translates to more gigs, which is worth more to me than extra CD sales.

  135. Lobelia (2009-09-21) #

    Oh, and I meant to respond about the concept working best for "party bands". It's funny, you might think that at first...but you can't get much further than that with my duo...take a solo bass player, and a folk singer-songwriter who both loop and layer in some sort of weird ambient electronica...it's not party band at all but this model works perfectly for us. It's about connecting with people on a deeper level..not giving someone background music to dance and drink to. I do believe that if the music is good, that this model will work for everyone.

  136. Jimi (2009-09-21) #

    I seem to recall this thread on musicthoughts once.
    Both with an artist I produced and with my own CD, this has proven to be a truly positive way to make stuff happen, & I have sold more CDs & gotten more (paying) gigs because of this kind of percieved valuation.
    HOWEVER...
    As Ian mentioned, it could really hurt if your work sucks.
    A band I used to know tried this, gave that same emotional plea...& I picked about a dozen out of the trashcans by the door after the show. (I told 'em they musta dropped 'em on the way in)
    I kept a copy 'cuz I believe every piece of music has a purpose, but I have more than a few CDs like that who's primary purpose is raw material for Christmas tree ornaments.
    There is another artist I know who's CD is so hard to listen to, I think it scares people away from his live shows. He connects emotionally in person, but is not technically very proficient, so an audio CD doesn't capture him at all.

  137. Lisa Haley (2009-09-21) #

    Hi Derek!

    Plan ahead.

    The idea that "you won't make as much money per CD, but you'll get rid of far more product," only works until you need to re-press a title, or need money to make the next album.

    Then you discover you've run out of product before you cover the cost of the next run.

    The same emotional connection with fans can be made by giving away a "band fan" memento as easily as a full CD.

    We give away free full-color stickers, violin pins, and special deals for buying multiple CDs.

    When the audience has a great reaction to a new song, we tell them it will be on the next album, as soon as we make some money back on the current one.

    This practice has worked well for seven albums.

    Love, Lisa

  138. Micah (2009-09-21) #

    this is a really clever approach...will definitely try..
    makes alot more sense than the usual tactics

  139. Nico Boesten (2009-09-21) #

    Radiohead and Trent Reznor are masters at this. Like the music or not, Reznor's interview with Digg was very inspiring and has a lot more creative ideas that spin off of this "Pay what you want" mentality.

    Article here: http://digg.com/dialogg/Trent_Reznor

  140. Mark Gilman (2009-09-21) #

    Any band that still sells their cds for $15 or even $10 are idiots. CDs are fast becoming a dead format. It has been predicted that cds will no longer be manufactured in 2 -5 years. Charging that much money for something that will ultimately end up in a landfill is ridiculous. Most people download these days. Give away FREE DOWNLOAD cards. Save the environment. If you still have cds, yes give them away from free just to get rid of them. Make your money from getting paid at gigs and selling t-shirts. Nobody wants cds anymore.
    “nobody”, huh? Quite a few of my friends that are real professional touring musicians say that the income from the venue barely pays travel expenses, but their real profit (what really pays the rent) is physical CD sales at shows. Believe it or not, but it's true. -- Derek

  141. Carlos de Nicaragua (2009-09-21) #

    That sound good, seen.

    RASTAFARI

  142. Cristian Paduraru (2009-09-21) #

    I have experienced this online in the past years and was cool. How this works online for you?

  143. Jenn (2009-09-21) #

    It seems like changing from a commercial pitch to flat-out begging. Beggars try to form an emotional connection too, and ask you to "give what you can." If I were a band I'd be ashamed to offload CD's this way.

  144. David Bielunski (2009-09-21) #

    Sometimes you have to spend money to [hope] make money.

  145. Sue Scott (2009-09-21) #

    Excellent post, Derek. Steve is starting work on a new CD, and we'll try this approach for releasing it! Thanks!

  146. sandy famiglietti (2009-09-21) #

    Applause-let it be an incentive for noble minds.
    In the manner of giving,it's more important to establish the character of the giver.
    Let the music in your soul speak for itself.

  147. Scott AndrewScott Andrew (2009-09-21) #

    Give away FREE DOWNLOAD cards.

    But you can't play download cards in your car stereo on the way home from the gig! You have to get to a computer, find the website, maybe create an account, log in, etc. By then the heat of the moment has passed.

    Seriously, I've tried the download card thing. Neat idea, but most people just stared at them, then asked for a CD instead. I'm sure there are artists with opposite experiences out there, but IMO the CD is still the best *physical* item to deliver music. Not cards. Not USB drives. You're just creating more friction between your music and potential fans.
    Yeah. We're in transitional times. Some people may want downloads, but some want the CD. You have to offer both, unless you're ready to exclude many of your fans. -- Derek

  148. Steve Cheeks (2009-09-21) #

    Hey,
    I have been doing this method for about 8yrs. At my last gig I Gave away about twelve CDZ and recieved about $350. The most I have ever gotten for one cd is 250.
    It works for me.

  149. Evee (2009-09-21) #

    Geez Derek this is a good one. hmmmm...I'm gonna think about that:} sounds like it's worth a try! Thanks for the good question.

  150. Taz Taylor (2009-09-21) #

    I already commented once, but in reading through some of the other comments, I have to say that Jenn
    (comment 13) really nailed it for me !

  151. Taz Taylor (2009-09-21) #

    sorry comment 43....my mistake

  152. Lisa JacobiLisa Jacobi (2009-09-21) #

    ::We totally get it.
    ::We completely agree.
    ::We are on board going with it.
    ::You've never let us down yet.
    ::Yes, it means another pressing, but why the heck not?
    ::We can't wait to start sending you the numbers.
    LJ
    Steel String Session

  153. ross vick (2009-09-21) #

    Music is NOT soap or like any other consumer products for the main reason is that the proletariat is used to getting it for free from the radio and the internet. If people don't want it they won't pick one up because it's free or "what ever they can pay." It's amazing how many people absolutely did not get Derek's point. Derek was only sharing this parable to illustrate to the unenlightened how to market to the heart of the consumer. Music is an emotional impulse purchase. Appealing to the angels of the audience's better nature and letting THEM be the hero, not the artist is the point. NOT "giving away my hard fought for music" as so many have weighed in with. Shy of asking for "what ever you can afford" you might include lottery tickets or beer coupons in the packaging and perhaps that would compel an otherwise unadoring and uninterested or unenthusiastic audience to fork over "what ever they can afford" for a CD. Same with "first 50 free" concepts, that is unless you're giving away beer or shots of some kind. I suggest you work that out with the club before hand and you'll probably get more people to show up. I mean, if you're investing $10.00 per unit in the CD give away, why not work it out with the bar to give away a free beer to the first 50 patrons? THEN sell your CD to them and the horses they ride in on! It would be cheaper for you and better for the bar. I think of my CD's as my business cards/CV: "Here's what I do, here's who I am, I hope you like it, my number and contact data is right there on the back, call me and let me know what you think."

  154. AM Patrick (2009-09-21) #

    the metropolitan museum of art here in NYC--the natural history museum and many others offer pay what you want admission and while i know they are subsidized, i think these institutions are doing just fine.
    1)the key is these museums have something brilliant to offer. and people go in and spend money at the bookshops afterward, etc. just like seeing a masterpiece in person isn't the same as looking at it on your computer. live music is a connection that the internet can't match.
    bottom line, the world has changed and your music really has to stand out. just giving away rubbish for free isn't going to get you where you want to go. if you're still not seeing the results after giving your music away, maybe you need to innovate your music.
    and speaking of spending money at the museum shop, there are 50 other ways besides CDs to generate income. i think these CDs should be a gateway for your fans, beyond that you have to deliver the goods and be creative about what you have to offer beyond CDs.

  155. Judy Zobrosky (2009-09-21) #

    I understand the concept of this approach completely and in many ways have practiced this throughout my career. If it is done with the true passion and intent of wanting to share your music or gift, it comes back to you many times over. If it doesn't come from the heart, folks are pretty good at recongnizing just another sales pitch.

    This is a great subject matter and first blog I have read to the end!
    Thanks Derek!

  156. Judy SandraJudy Sandra (2009-09-21) #

    I think this is good marketing. Just insert BLANK product for the CD. How many times have you gotten free samples of products in the mail. This is the same principle.

    The downside of this is that starting out it hurts to give away that much product, but think of it as an investment like advertising. Which is what it is.

    Agree on this one. I'm already asking targeted people who wants the first free copies of my novel...

  157. ian robsonian robson (2009-09-21) #

    This is a very old, ancient even, marketing ploy that works very well. "I want you to have it so much I'm prepared to Give it to you!" Ten years ago my wife used it successfully to get a job, "I like this company so much I'll work for you for nothing for five years" - she got the job and surprisingly they paid her -I wouldn't have ;)

  158. Barry ( Skully) Waddell (2009-09-21) #

    Kind of the same but different.
    In a situation where our band was not doing a lot of live shows. But - we were preparing to release our 4th album.
    Myspace was just starting to become popular ((2004)).
    So, what we did was make a sampler CD. 1 song ((proven fan fav))from each album already released and 1 new song from the upcoming release.
    2500 single jacket style CD's Pro packaged through Discmakers as usual. We gave them away for free to every new person through myspace that sent us a friend request. We did not go looking for people - slowly we let them come to us first.
    Sent them a free sampler CD and added them to our mailing list.
    Point is - we made it personal, put the music in their hand - and a good portion of those people went on the purchase all 4 of our full-length CD's as well as T-shirts, music videos, and other band merch. So yes indeed - personal contact, and free samples are always a good way to create more awarness and demand. We just broke even on the freebies BUT we sure did make a lot of new friends / fans that have stayed with us and helped continue to promote the band. In fact it also led us to a licensing deal on all our albums to be re-released with bonus tracks on VINYL by a German record label. The first Vinyl already released has led us to a recent 8 page spread in a German magazine "Metal Obsession"
    Every CD that you get "out there" by any means necessary can eventually lead to something else. As tediuos and time consuming as it can be - it is more important these days to try and have personal communciation with everyone that comes your way with interest and get the music in their hand.

  159. Matthew EbelMatthew Ebel (2009-09-21) #

    I may try this approach with a UStream concert either this Tuesday or next. I have an eCommerce plugin for my website that lets you set an item's cost as "donation". I'll give this tactic a whirl digitally (fortunately, I don't need to lose any round plastic in the process).

  160. Jason Miles (2009-09-21) #

    Yes because we all know that a T shirt is worth more than music.I am tired of everybody who wants to give away music for free.
    Hey,the next time I'm hungry maybe I can go to your restaurant and you'll feed me for free.
    Also I like that HD TV-I'll take it for a hundred dollars.
    I think a lot of your story is Bullshit because we tried it-and 10 people paid.
    It takes ALOT to create quality music-I know I've been doing it for 35 years.I'd rather not play music than give away my life s work for free

  161. Chris Daniels (2009-09-21) #

    The band was crazy to charge $15 to start with. We dropped the price to $10 over 5 years ago and doubled the sales. The formula for BE needs to keep the CD cost at a buck for it to work. I think Prince cost for the Daily Mail was 18 cents each for a million given away.

    This is an interesting new twist and it will be interesting to try. We have 12 CDs out so it makes sense to do this one of the titles and not all -- start costs would be too high. Let you know how it works out.

  162. Annemarie Borg (2009-09-21) #

    Bonjour Derek, smile
    Terrific idea...Particularly as it is so true...Our project Thamnos is about being heard and what is behind and inside the music, and not about financial reward or fame.
    So I have 2 shows in the westend-London-UK
    Nov and Dec. And this is perfect...Great suggestion...thanks
    Amitié
    Annemarie

  163. Jeanette ArsenaultJeanette Arsenault (2009-09-21) #

    Hey Derek -

    Terry must have read the book, "Free" by Chris Anderson. Everyone should read it - I'm sure you must have heard of it or read it by now!! Another great concept by the guy who developed the long tail concept.

  164. Cole (2009-09-21) #

    Right on Derek. Another positive and very informative message from you. You're soon to become one of musics very best all time friends. Keep em coming and Thank you!

  165. Keith Mohr (2009-09-21) #

    Good idea Derek!
    I tried an experiment one time at a merch table. I created a sign that said "CDs- $15 or $20". Most people plunked down a $20 and said keep the change, we're glad to help!

    See, most indie music isn't purchased because the person liked the music, the purchased because they wanted to show their appreciation and support for the artist.

  166. Red (supplies) (2009-09-21) #

    Thanks. I will try it at MidPoint in Cincinnati this weekend; will let you know if it works for me.

  167. Jeanette Parsadanian (2009-09-21) #

    I sing in church so it dosen't matter it I get paid or not!!!!

  168. Alicia Selby (2009-09-21) #

    Thanks a great idea!

    A few weeks ago I was invited to do an iTunes Live showcase event in Houston by the people at Apple. I decided to give my new debut CD out to everyone in attendance and also give out free promo t-shirts. Everyone was extremely polite & very appreciative especially in these tough times. I have noticed a much heavier traffic to my music website since that performance. I expect more sales on iTunes as a result too. The main thing is to get the music out there to be enjoyed by as many different people as possible as quickly as possible.

  169. Matthew To Mccourt (2009-09-21) #

    Ive done this while selling cds at ebay since i started doping my own label in 1997 i give 2 or 3 (or more depending on the emails i get form the buyer who are pleased to know its the actual "guy on the record" doin the selling....
    it works out great..not only do you give them something for fre but you get what you cannnot ever pay for an unexpected smile and support of people becuase of that emotional link everyone expects to pay for everything when you get a free gift(like those cereal samples that came in the mail- and wow did i like them coming home form school without much to munch on at home....) and for me it is a pleasure to make those "
    friends" some call fans...

  170. Arlene Faith (2009-09-21) #

    Thank you so much for the tips, that's what I say...lol. This concept works...
    Derek, I have a "Celtic Trilogy", 3 cd package...I have poured my heart and soul into my music and I really want you to have this music and be part of my journey...look me up at www.woodenstonemusic.com, and I'll be happy to send it to you.
    Seriously,
    Arlene Faith

  171. Tomas MichaudTomas Michaud (2009-09-21) #

    I get it! Only wish I had read this before my CD release concert Saturday night. I'll try offering to the people who came to the show by email. Not as powerful but worth a try (experiment).

    Any comments/suggestions?

  172. Kent McDonald (2009-09-21) #

    An artist friend of mine has a large following on the art-show circuit. She never wants to get caught having "last season's art" in stock when a regular stops by. When she find some, she's go into panic mode and tells her husband to "mark it down and get rid of it". He promptly makes up a "Show Special" sign, and displays the art just outside the entrance, having tacked on $100 to the original price. In almost every case, the art is gone in a matter of hours.

    Value, like art, is in the eye of the beholder.

  173. kengo (2009-09-21) #

    This is sooo interesting!

    I definitely try that!

  174. CJ (2009-09-21) #

    I'm seeing a pattern here. A few people that seem adamant that this is a bad idea, because they're already not selling CDs need to take a good hard look at themselves. Again, Derek's example was of a band that is already selling CDs. If people see you and won't take your CD for free, or for a dollar, this is a great time to look into pursuing other career paths.

    Also interesting is all the people that are saying "I'm not giving it away for free", or "I worked hard on my music and it has value" etc, etc. This is a similar attitude the major record labels took with the development of mp3s and file sharing in the late 90's.

    If your music is good, I think this is an incredibly innovative way to adapt. Weather we like it or not, the sale and distribution of music is changing and an overwhelming pace, it would be wise to stay open minded. Again, if you're not selling CDs to begin with and/or don't have any fans to begin with, you've either just started or need to accept that your music isn't commercially viable and should be kept in your garage/livingroom/bedroom. I think it's the fact that there are so many crummy bands out there refusing to see themselves as they are makes it harder for the good bands, though eventually the good bands do prevail.

  175. CJ (2009-09-21) #

    I might also add that I took the liberty of searching the names of the negative nancys and came up with a few myspace profiles with their music, and not to cause any negative energy, they were all objectively speaking mediocre at best.

  176. jeremy l. mix (2009-09-21) #

    derek, thanks for sharing. Here's my $0.02.

    The "Pay what you can" concept is certainly not a new one. As others have pointed out in their responses, this has always been a common practice at cd release shows and special events.
    In recent years, people like Derek Webb have applied the same concept to downloads with website services like noisetrade.com. (I offer a similar download service to my artists ex. http://abicook.pjtw.com/)

    In my opinion, the question boils down to 3 things.

    1. FREE-Ability. When is it smart, when is it a worthwhile risk, and when is it foolish?

    SMART - when it's a new product, when you're most excited about it, when it's a new audience, when you can see from stage that you've connected with those in the room and they want more of you.

    WORTHWHILE RISK - when you've got NOS (new old stock), when you've paid back the cost of producing it, when you have nothing major to lose, when you've got an inexpensive delivery mechanism.

    FOOLISH - when you still owe more than 50% on producing it and you've only had the product out 3 months, when you're playing a market you've saturated, when the market is over saturated with other producers


    2. Your Sincerity and Honesty. Do you really genuinely want people to have your music? or are you just hoping this trick works so you up your sales or get rid of cd? People can tell the difference. And how you answer this personal evaluation really effects how passionately you can convey your desire to the audience, and arguably how they will respond to it. How you convey that should be well thought-out, unique, and totally, genuinely YOU. If you're a jerk, you may want to work on you before you try working on your genuine pitch.


    3. Quality. I would argue that the quality of your live show has 2x the impact on your album sales/giveaways than the quality of the album itself....even if they've heard the quality of your record.
    In other words, if you put out a crappy record, but put on a heck of a live show...people will buy/take your album because it's a piece of memorabilia of the experience. This is why album sales still only truly thrive at shows, and why record labels and cd shops are rapidly dying. People want to connect with your experience. If they don't you should reconsider/reinvent what you're doing. The fact that people WILL buy/take a crappy record from you, however, doesn't mean you shouldn't care about the quality of your record. You should put out the best album you possibly can, and sound even better live, and make the next album sound even better, etc

    enough from me...

  177. Taylor Carson (2009-09-21) #

    Releasing my fourth CD in March, this is definitely an approach we have talked about. I think it's very smart, especially if you're proud of the music you are making.

  178. Whistling Tom (2009-09-21) #

    Great idea Derek, don't think it work for me though 'cus I mostly perform for old folks in the assisted living homes and they never buy a CD. They would however,take one for free. W. T.

  179. Chris Letchford (2009-09-21) #

    yeah, I'm in the same situation. I buy cds from our record label for $6 each.

    I see the purpose of this thing, but at the same time I feel that it comes off as a little cheesy especially in the more heavy music genre.

    I'm still going to try it on our next tour in Jan and see what happens though. I guess curiosity got me on this one.

    I see it as 50/50 chance of working.

    Before when we were unsigned getting cd's for $.98 each, I would be all about this idea, as they cost us next to nothing.

  180. Juliana McCorison (2009-09-21) #

    I agree with this approach. I'm not moving a lot of CD's but I've given away at least as many as I've sold and since I never thought that my "first" CD was going to be a vast money maker - my priority was/is getting it heard.

    I chat with a guy on the plane - he's interested in my music... I mail him a CD when I get home. Asking him to give it a listen and share it with others if he likes it.

    I'd rather have people listening and introducing my music to others than have a large supply sitting in a garage.

    I like this groups approach!

  181. John W Davis (2009-09-21) #

    great idea! time to do it. gave the thought to my band, and there was reluctance, but we're going to give it a shot

  182. John Naples (2009-09-21) #

    Not as a rule, but if you want to give it away, that's totally your call as long as you understand the ramifications before-hand. Then again, if you CD's really great, what could it hurt?

  183. David HooperDavid Hooper (2009-09-21) #

    It's a good idea.

    My suggestions to make it more powerful...

    1. You've got to go balls out with it and trust that you'll be ok with the average for it to work. It's like changing lanes in a car-- if you're not decisive, you'll wreck. There is no middle ground here.

    2. The key is emotional connection, so implement other things you can do for that emotional connection to stick. Photos of the show online or a download of that specific show (in exchange for an email address) are two ideas that come to mind.

    3. Something that might be cheaper, have a higher profit margin, and possibly be more effective for you, depending on how your audience consumes music, is selling "drop cards" with a code to download the music. Again, it depends on how your audience consumes music, but we're finding that more and more people prefer to download something rather than get a physical copy of it. May be worth testing...

    4. If you really want an emotional connection, do this with something EXCLUSIVE that they can only get at live shows. Make them think they're "insiders." Anybody can get the normal CD, but how many people can get a special one? This doesn't necessarily have to be a totally new CD-- different artwork or bonus tracks may be just as effective. Test for best results.

  184. Mike Laatz (2009-09-21) #

    What I've been doing is giving away a free download each week; just one track off one of my CDs.
    I've set it up on an autoresponder, with links to CD Baby etc for those who want to buy an album. Not too many sales yet, but it has brought in some gigs, and I'm expanding my fan base nicely. And what a nice mailing list for when I release my next album!

  185. Jim PipkinJim Pipkin (2009-09-21) #

    Call me a curmudgeon, but I would rather throw my cds into a fire than give them away. People have no respect for what they get for free, and in the long term this will do nothing but hurt sales. I will occasionally do a free show to get in front of a new crowd, and even put together special giveaway EPs for a few shows. But give away the actual product? No chance.
    This is a technique to SELL more CDs, not give them away. You saw the part about how just giving the OPTION of free makes more people BUY them, right? That was the whole point of the post. -- Derek

  186. Dale LeRoy Perry (2009-09-21) #

    When you give away music to make money,can that be a gift? No gain, no pain. Music is free anyway. Have you ever paid for a lyric that comes unexpectedly or a melody that you can't get out of your head. What really is your motive? Money I suspect.

  187. Shanti BrafordShanti Braford (2009-09-21) #

    hey Derek,

    Awesome post!

    Keep pluckin that Chicken. =)

  188. Mark (2009-09-21) #

    Funny thing is I was just thinking about doing this at my next concert. Now I know exactly how I am going to do it! Thanks Derek. I'll let you know how it goes!

  189. Danny NortonDanny Norton (2009-09-21) #

    My band The Golden Greats have three gigs in the next two weeks to very different demographics. I'll pitch this idea since we pressed our album through one of CD Baby's partners at a time that it was impractical to produce fewer than 1,000 and after our fan-base of 50 were sated and another 50 were mailed for reviews/promotion/venues, we're left with a leaning tower of boxes.
    The first gig is as opener in a rock club in a neighborhood we haven't played before, the second is for parents & donors @ a charter school, and the third is a private party for employees of a nonprofit land trust organization. Our fist gig, over 5 years ago, was an afterparty for the World Naked Bike Ride, and we've been taking nontraditional invitations to play ever since. While rewarding, it's been so far from a commercial endeavor that we haven't been able to gauge our successes at growing an audience and following.
    I play a particularly unusual and somewhat infamous instrument called The Drum Buddy, invented by Mr. Quintron, so we're photographed playing out live a lot and I find every flickr or picasa image of myself playing and comment with links to my bands. With my new lineup, Toyboat Toyboat Toyboat, we just played a guerilla gig in a storefront during Portland's Music Fest Northwest, a corollary to SXSW in Austin. We were photographed and videoed like crazy, so we'll have an opportunity to post replies to everything that makes it online.
    Besides littering the internet with linkage, a necessary evil which can be executed cleanly and in a sophisticated way, we are considering releasing a 7" vinyl record. Having recorded two tracks professionally, it seemed like the best move for our genre in our market. In Portland, CDs have become a bit passe, or instant clutter. People gauge the limit of their music collection by the size of their shelving unit or how many GB are left in their iPod and loyally observe that cap.

  190. Lesley Young (2009-09-21) #

    I've personally decided to stop recording until there is a demand for music again..I'll do live recording from now on. I have a few live tracks up already, Amsterdam radio 5.

  191. Kevin GreensteinKevin Greenstein (2009-09-21) #

    The Duke & the King did this at a recent show in Cambridge, MA and were absolutely mobbed with interested parties. Most seemed to be paying full price. For those unfamiliar with the Duke & the King, they're definitely worth checking out.

  192. Silvanus Slaughter (2009-09-21) #

    Derek: To some degree it hints at supplication, but I think it is important to get something of yours that is 'organic' or real into the listeners' hands. I am a proponent of deluxe packaging, and I miss LPs dearly. Downloading has somewhat done to music what DVD sell through did to movies: demystify and steal the soul until no one cares or notices anymore. So, my answer is, yes, but don't give them away SO freely. In an evolved culture, the gesture would be appreciated; it ours, it is, unfortunately perceived as weaknessa and desperation.

  193. Mike Le Van (2009-09-21) #

    9-21-09 I have a 5 night steady at a local restaurant and perhaps I could pick a set hour/certain night and especially my Trio Sunday night (once a month). A giveaway night. Food for thought. I'll let you know.

  194. Deian McBryde (2009-09-21) #

    We've been doing this with our newest CD for about a year on tour. We went from leaving with all but one or two of our CDs to several more people taking a CD home. For us, it's sort of a spiritual thing, but creating the transaction from a place of personal abundance has made it possible for us to tour more often, generating more abundance from the initial seeds.

  195. Carlos Franco (2009-09-21) #

    OK. I´ll give a try at the band´s next Gig. As you said in your "How to gain attention to your music?" document.

    "test and see what happens"

    I´ll let you know afterwards.

    Best Regards

  196. Jean (2009-09-21) #

    Derek,I love this, i am in the process of planning a new release CD/DVD package and have a modification to this that I will be trying out, I will tell you about it in the next month and share both before & after effort.results with you.

    Thanks for sharing for I have been struggling with a similar idea that will be done in about 2 months.

    Jean

  197. Adam Solomon (2009-09-21) #

    yes it's true, your language is very important to your fans. You have to make the fans fill they're a part of you and not guests.

  198. Kristina (2009-09-21) #

    Great idea!

    I love social experiments and I'm going to try this one. I gave a CD to a friend and he shared it a a lady that books a venue. Then he invited me out to perform at his gig and had the lady come by and she offered me a gig. I got $107 in tip money alone at that gig plus I'm sure I will be rebooked next year for the same event.

    Word of mouth is great! I was just reading this article on making your own luck TODAY check it out. http://www.oprah.com/article/spirit/knowyourself/200902_omag_making_your_own_luck
    The average person knows about 300 people can you imagine what it would be to give CDs away at just one show and then have people just tell 10% of the people they know about your music or let them hear it? I

  199. Papasean (2009-09-21) #

    Yeah this is a good idea...

  200. SAVAGE SUN (2009-09-21) #

    lets try it on here first. If you want to download my album for free, go here:
    http://beta.amiestreet.com/music/savage-sun/the-art-of-being-alive/

    if you are willing to buy it, go here:
    http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/savagesun

    either way, please dont leave this page without getting my album. Peace, SAVAGE SUN

  201. Rhonda Niden (2009-09-21) #

    comment #183 (sorry for that reference)... good idea... "...exclusive..."

    Give 'em something different... that IS the ticket... could even be announced after the show that for a "limited" period of time as a "thanks" for coming to the show free downloads of the songs played... like that...

    GIVE 'EM SOMETHING DIFFERENT! YAW!!! PROVEN methodology in the retail industry....

  202. inkysmudge (2009-09-21) #

    You mean people still go to see live music?!!! Just kidding, gonna start some solo acoustic shows soon and had planned this approach already. The reason for playing live is to connect anyway isn't it?

  203. Kirk James (2009-09-21) #

    I've used this approach before with CDs and other merchandise, and it is very helpful. Though I have not applied it to it's fullest extent.

    If you look at it from a marketing point of view, this is agreat form of advertising. You are getting your music out to the people who are already listening to you perform. You are advertising WITH your music instead of descriptions ABOUT the music.

  204. Robby LeBlanc (2009-09-21) #

    Excellent article. I've been giving away CD's for years at gigs. Anybody that comes up to my table and says I dont have the money right now, I hand them a CD and say "No problem you can send me a check when you get a chance and if you happen to not like the CD just give it to someone else and you owe me nothing". Even if they say, no I dont want to owe you, I hand them the CD and say, this is my gift to you, Thanks for stopping by. To this day I get checks in the mail every week from somebody somewhere thanking me for the CD. Keep up the good work DErek...

  205. david frankel (2009-09-21) #

    here's my take: derek is absolutely right that the subject is not commerce, but creating an emotional connection, which for those of you unclear on the concept IS THE WHOLE AND ONLY POINT TO BEING AN ARTIST.

    One of my buddies & I made a 5 song ep at a time when he was playing open mics in Austin...he would sing 3 songs to people who came to see the OTHER ACTS....and sell out 10 cds @ $5 ea.

    Now he gives them all away and refuses money...and the local radio station plays them in rotation, and hooks him up w/festivals for great $ and he plays regularly locally...


    when I was a radio DJ I got 100's every month and at best only 2 were worth my time to screen...the reason that the record companies are dying is because A&R folks are into the 3rd generation of hearing crap as they came up and so now most people wouldn't know great music if it bit them on the ass!

    Just because you're friends like you doesn't mean you don't suck.

    If you can't get 100 people to a club gig on your third performance at that venue, quit.
    If the local radio station won't play your music, quit.

    If you don't hear "that's the best song I ever heard" from ONE PERSON every time you perform, you're not making the EMOTIONAL CONNECTION and giving recordings away will not change that.

    You should double your performance fee with merch sales. Labels looking to sign acts expect 1 CD sale per 10 audience members.
    If you can sell 10,000 CDs in 6 months the labels will call you. I you sign, your income will be cut in at least half.

    If you can't meet the above goals, start a CD distribution network on the net and...oops, been done! (all in fun, I LOVE YA, Derek!)

  206. Lee Cutelle (2009-09-21) #

    Sounds like a good theory.

  207. Andy Hawk (2009-09-21) #

    I have a story that increased my sales. We were selling our disc at gigs for $5 to try and get them out there. I didn't feel like we were selling enough, so one night out of desperation I said, "It's free CD night... with a $5 tip!" The humor brought people out of the woodwork and I'd say we sell about twice as many CDs as we used to. It's all in the presentation, I guess. They don't feel like buying something for $5, but they'd love a free one with a $5 tip.

  208. Gary Pickus (2009-09-21) #

    There's an internet marketing guru named Eben Pagan who terms this sort of strategy as "moving the free line." If you have confidence in the value of your work or product, this is a great way to go.

    In my experience, people typically know what's going on, and only about 10% will just take what's free and never reciprocate...and often, down the road, sooner rather than later, they will gladly plunk down more than the original selling price, and/or buy in greater quantity.

  209. Jimmy Gough (2009-09-21) #

    Hey I Like it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I give out free cd's to people all of the time.For every three you give you gain six new fans.Just tell them if they like it tell a friend,and they do.

  210. Anthony SnapeAnthony Snape (2009-09-21) #

    Emotional connection with the audience, wow what a concept! Great music will always find people who want to pay for it. Why? Because it makes people feel good/happy/sad/reflective/whatever, through live performance you have given them something, shared something. I can see this emotional approach to CD sales working, but only for those who know how to really connect with their audience.

  211. Kelly PettitKelly Pettit (2009-09-21) #

    Interesting but scary. Worth trying though. Thanks for sharing a great idea.

  212. Robb Cairns (2009-09-21) #

    Derek-
    I've found lately people will ask me for the download site rather than take home a CD. It's been real pronuonced lately (even in record stores) that people don't WANT the physical CD. I'm even getting the same now. When I hear a new artist, I just want the song I liked; not the whole album. I know this is a complete reversal of everything we know and love, but I think it has become today's reality. Just look at how CD sales have dropped dramatically over the last year! So, while I think it's a cool concept, I think most groups would just be throwing their money (and profits) away. Sorry to sound so calloused but that's how I really see it.

  213. Jerry HerreraJerry Herrera (2009-09-21) #

    I offer free downloads on my site since I'm not doing live shows.

  214. Justin James O'Brien (2009-09-21) #

    I like it but... your playing a show for 600 people and you say free ??
    Well if everyone is going to take one you could be screwed big time.
    It might work but you risk the chance of losing your ass.
    Also... How many times do you bring 600 CDs to a show ?

  215. Pete Berwick (2009-09-21) #

    Even though this may work, I have to side with priciple. To me it's unfair that one person may pay as much as $15 for a cd where someone else takes it for free because that option was made available. A carpenter's tool of his trade is the ability to take wood and create decks, homes, shelves, and so forth. I have never known of a carpenter to announce, "I wil build whomever desires a home, and you can pay me what you want if at all." A lawyer's tool of the trade is his or hers expert knowledge of law, which is the end result of much studying. I have never called a lawyer and have him tell me, "Just pay me what you think is fair." An Artist/musicians tool of the trade is their talent for putting words and music to song and placing it on an album, or as we cheaply seem to refer to such labors of love these days, CDS. Why should the artist's work be revered differently from the carpenter's, the lawyer's, or for that sake the plumber, electrician, the barber, the restaurant owner and so forth and so on. I understand that music is much unlike most businesses and far from a normal business. It really is one of the few with shady boundaries and vague, if any rules and regulations. It is a free for all, and the practice of giving away one's work in hopes it will generate more intrest is to me an act of desperation.
    Such as open mike nights at clubs have done much to destroy viable paying gigs for working musicians such as myself, the gazillions of bands out there begging people to care about their music by offering free downloads, leaving stacks of their cds for people to take by the door of clubs, and just handing them out at shows, is just one of the many factors that has added and continues to add to the cheapening of music and depreciation of the value of albums(CDS) in the publics mind.

  216. Richard D'Anjolell (2009-09-21) #

    BRAVO BRAVO! Any question that can stir such debate is actually quite well posed and don't second guess it. I have been doing this for years and some of my biggest fans that are now my best friends still have their free cd in rotation in their car. Now, their friends have bought plenty of discs to average out the free one. It takes the idea of asses in seats makes fans a step further by giving each ass a business card to take home and share with others. I don't use business cards anymore for anything, I give out my cds. Maybe, soon that's the next thing a business card that can play your music, video, games,ect. After a show I try to work the crowd like a politician, shake hands, hug, and pass out some music. People will gladly give you money if they can but when they can't and you give the music with the condition that they must "take off the shrink wrap and put it in to the cd player." They will. I also share the story of look if you don't like it you can sell it at a used record store for a couple bucks. Because of that, I can't tell you how many record shops around the world have copies of my discs in the discount bins. And that is very cool because the kid that comes in with a couple of bucks buys it cause that is all they can afford and if they dig it well it's like the message in a bottle theory. You never know who your message might touch and if your discs are earning dust on the shelf or under the bed they aren't worth a damn.

  217. Tim (2009-09-21) #

    Excuse the science nerd coming out in me but it would be great to do this study a bit more scientifically - I think you have already mentioned some good procedures and what information people should collect at gigs Derek, but is there any chance we could design this study so we can get some data that can be tested scientifically? I am more than willing to help out with this as I have done plenty of studies for admission to peer-reviewed journals in the past.

    Cheers,
    Tim

  218. Mark Stewart (2009-09-21) #

    Two years ago I gave away cds to anyone who complimented my show or my talents but invariably they would reach into their pocket and pull out some cash I just wanted them to hear my music and in the end it was profitable, since then I have released 2 more cds but haven't sold as many as when I gave them away....I'm going back to my old ways thanks for reminding me...for me it IS all about the music and that honesty will keep them coming back!!

  219. Richard D'Anjolell (2009-09-21) #

    Tim, has a great idea and I think it follows your initial thought. For the experiment to be controlled each participating artist/group would need to say the same dialogue in regard to cd sales at each show, document attendance at each show, and keep track of the information over say a 3 repeat visit at a venue to garner quantifiable information. You can count me in. I would think a group study would need to be at least 25 subjects certainly 2500 would hold more weight. I also think anyone participating would eventually gain media attention just by participating with something that might be important than their music. This would be a sociological/anthropological study.

  220. Atasi (2009-09-21) #

    Derek,

    Wow!! Real good advice here just what I really needed to hear 'cause I am going to start to perform live again next month!!

    Cheers!!

    Atasi

  221. Ian RogersIan Rogers (2009-09-21) #

    Not directly relevant right here but I take a more ideological approach to this post on my blog:
    http://destroybeforereading.wordpress.com/2009/09/22/dont-do-leave-without-a-cd/

    Not sure this model is at all honest or sincere in the Australian context but I'm still nutting it out.

  222. Wichampi (2009-09-21) #

    If customers can afford entrance fees and can pay their drinks, they
    can afford to pay for a cd if they have enjoyed the show. If they can't afford it that night, they can always buy it later. Musicians invest more money than they earn very often. Why should they lose money ? Might as well play for free too ! Sorry. I don't agree.
    We already give enough cds away to get work. Huge stars can afford to give away freebies. Do they ?
    This is not just about the actual cost of production. It is also about all the time spent developing and composing on our own time long before the cd is made. It 's time musicians were respected more.
    Free of CDBaby as of today and
    glad to be. Anyway everyone's free to use whatever strategy they want but it ain't mine ! I have a new project happening in mid October and will keep you informed of it.
    Love you...love this site....love everyone who participates........
    wichampi.

  223. Dr Frank Munoz (2009-09-21) #

    I think is a great idea. It's better someone got your cd for free, and your music getting heard, than for it to be collecting dust somewhere

  224. Sean McCready (2009-09-21) #

    This sounds promising I must say. Look what it did for Radiohead with In Rainbows. Remember that?

    SMM

  225. Andri (2009-09-21) #

    I know it works because we've done the same. It's the emotional connection that makes the sale, that creates followers and not fans. You give a few CDs out for free, they will remember you for a life time and follow you and support you and refer you to their friends. And most of all they will LOVE you!

  226. Doug Fitch (2009-09-21) #

    No CD better than bad CD, good CD much much better than no CD. As far as give aways. I have only sold them. My audience is smaller, older, has more $ than typical teens/20s crowd. I'm interested in this cool idea though! Thanks Derek!

  227. Fred Scott (2009-09-21) #

    Good Idea . thanks MAN

  228. David Hart (2009-09-21) #

    Great Idea! Anything that works to sell more and promote in a genuine fashion makes sense.

    I can honestly say this has been one of the most terrible days I've had in months. If it could go wrong today it did. Something had to change the pattern and this communication did.

    I appreciate more the idea that you care about other people and their careers Derek. Compassion is such a wonderful thing.

    I am so broke right now and in between everything that anything positive is wonderful. It's strange how we can end up over extended waiting for something to happen. When really what we need to do is go out and make it happen.

    I wanted to crawl into a shell today and hide. Now I have a little hope to carry forward with a new idea.

    Thank you.

    David Hart/Buddhaboy

  229. JustinLee (2009-09-21) #

    Hello folks,

    You know i am already doing something like that already because I put a cd on cdbaby.com and I sold a demo off of there, and then the person that bought it I gave her the whole record for free for doing that. I am doing that with MLM program and cash gifting programs everytime i get a moneyorder I put a note in with the cd and I thank them for there gift I give them the record and also allow the recipient too copy the cd rewrite it and pass it out too people at work friends and family and so forth hoping that they will want too know whats up with the newest songs I have so that It would actually sell, and of the individual would have too give word that they must go too cdbaby/jlmusic. I have plans for a new cd and I am just trying too link my demo too the actual record, and so on with the new record whenever I put it out.

    JL

  230. Tom Boyer (2009-09-21) #

    Well, this is genius. As performers, we generally give away 25% for promotions anyway. This concept will generate a good average of $10.00 per CD even if you suggest $15.00 each. I can't WAIT to try this concept.

  231. Anne-Lise Larsen (2009-09-21) #

    That's a great idea Derek. Thank you for sharing. I have a big cd launch coming up soon - date TBC, so I need all the help!

  232. Patrick Halloran (2009-09-21) #

    I did something a lot like this a couple of months ago. We were playing in a new venue on a 3 night booking. The first night got a luke-warm reaction and we sold about $200 in CD's. The second night was better but people weren't really buying anything. I told the crowd if someone in the audience could beat me in a car bomb race I'd give everyone in the audience a free live CD. My band mates freaked out and thought I was crazy. One guy took me up on the offer, I let him win and everyone who came up to get their free CD also bought a CD and most also bought a t-shirt or more CD's and we wound up breaking $800 for the night in merchandise for the cost of about 45 $1 discs. It's now a running thing any time we play bars.
    Awesome! Great story! -- Derek

  233. JustinLee (2009-09-21) #

    hello again,

    I am also doing this if you go too cdbaby.com/jlmusic and by the demo she so smoove I will give you the finished product show you some love cd, its been renamed from she so smoove too show u some love so thats my complete album. get the demo get the free album.

    JL

  234. Sam McNally (2009-09-21) #

    Here's a different experience. My music is good, very good. For years my CD sales at live gigs have gone from "humble" to "non-existent". With a crowd cheering for a 1st and 2nd encore, I would go to my "merch desk" after and be stunned, again and again, to see 2, 3 sales. Is it Sydney? Is it Australia? Price point wrong? I dunno, and I've given up thinking about it. I've seen fellow acts sell truckloads of their CD at similar environments. I have no idea what the answer is.
    One easy solution is leave the boxes of CD product that live under my bed, there. Less to carry. Sam McNally.

  235. Dan-O | DanoSongs.comDan-O | DanoSongs.com (2009-09-21) #

    For years I have had a simple method:

    A jar that says "Leave a Tip, Take a CD"

    All my friends copy the idea - because it works and its easy.

    I make triple what i would if I asked for tips AND sold cds.

    Peace

    Dan-O

  236. Sean Mormelo (2009-09-21) #

    The People have just seen your show so I think they can guage pretty well if you're good or not. Worrying about giving the impression that your CD must suck if you're giving it away on a Donations basis is a moot point then, right? Bottom line, If you are good and if your music is good this will be of benefit to you. If you are not, it's going to either Clean you out because all your disks will go and you will get little in return for them, or people won't take them. I believe, if you're stuff is good and you just showed them LIVE they will take a CD and leave a tip and you'll be better for it. IF this is NOT your experience then Maybe you should think about why that is. This is going to weed out a lot of the Crap bands and musicians out there I think.

  237. Jim Drew (2009-09-21) #

    Hey Derek
    I have tried various ideas on this and it seems the more you are willing to give than sell, the more out Papa blesses us. I think this is well worth the try as a standard of practice cuz ultimately it is about the people that are in front of us that night/morning, whenever.

    Jim

  238. Susan (2009-09-21) #

    Interesting idea. We've tried the same kind of thing for a song we've made available for download (http://tinyurl.com/ekamrd). Proceeds go to ME/CFS advocacy and research.

    In this case, we're actually OK with people not paying much. We're more interested in having people listen and raising awareness about the cause. The trick is getting new people to hit the download page. We haven't quite figured out how to do that.

  239. Jessica Paige (2009-09-21) #

    It's an awesome idea and I can see how it works. Being a busker I often give c.d's away if people can't afford them however I think saying it in your way will work better. I will try it out. Often times I will just be selling my cd's and someone will ofter to buy one for someone else in the audience or give me twice as much money for a cd which is almost a similar thing.

    Music is all about people and sometimes asking yourself what you really want (heaps of people to listen to my music ha ha) can actually result in more profit. Money flows, the more you give the more you get. It's the same with most things.

  240. Bruce Maier (2009-09-21) #

    I sell CD's at my gigs too, but have to tell you I saw Frankie Moreno and his band in Vegas packing the house and making sure that everyone got a free CD. Not a cheap self-made, but nice with great art and graphics and killer tunes! See, I didn't forget it and no one ever will that was there.
    Bruce Maier-Pres.damngoodtunes.com
    brucejmaier.com

  241. Chris HuffChris Huff (2009-09-21) #

    I do what Dan-O does - offer the crowd a "Pay What You Want" for CDs - and it works great! Mostly I play cover gigs and sell CDs of my original music, which is a bit of an uphill struggle, but I went from selling like 1 or 2 a night to selling 5 to 15 a night this way. Playing 8 gigs a week this summer, I sold 250 CDs. Average price = $4. Not a bad bit of extra dough.

    I have also tried the "give everyone in the audience a free CD" method - however, since I often play bars, many times people in their drunken states forget to take them and I am left late at the club after people leave cleaning up the leftovers (which can get spilled beer on them and be unsaleable). Sometimes that method is successful in getting people to come back, sometimes not...it's a lot of work...and expensive...also in general I think one is better off giving them to people who want them rather than "blanketing the room" - social media works this way too - the idea you and Seth Godin have mentioned about focusing on the 10 people who LOVE what you do...

    A weird phenomenon I get is sometimes people want to give me a tip but NOT take a CD because they feel "guilty" about a $1 CD - I insist they take it - I say "Please, I really want to get my music out there and it's not about making money" - this approach has actually turned CDs into a revenue stream...if they still won't take it, I'll whine on the mic, throw a tantrum, or threaten to start rapping lol that usually makes them laugh and they take it...

    Worked hard to thing of how to pitch the idea - usually I mention it before the last song of a set so that people are aware before I break (I do 4 sets a night usually) - the most effective pitches have been the positive funny ones - "I really want these out of my trunk and into your CD players" - "Take a little piece of me home with you that you can share with your spouse" - or using the delay pedal "PAY pay WHAT what YOU you WANT want"...but keeping it positive has seemed to work better than the "I really want to get these things AWAY from me" approach...

    good to see this article. I started doing this in May and it really paid off. I HIGHLY suggest it to every musician out there playing gigs.

  242. Seth Davis (2009-09-21) #

    it works.
    but how CAN it work online? (just curious)
    would cdbaby, for instance, allow customers to pay as they wish? perhaps with a minimum...

  243. Lesley Young (2009-09-21) #

    I thought about this blog some more: First of all you're talking about Terry McBride and Nettwork. What does that have to do with us indie artists who are unsigned? We who who are Not playing well attended concerts that people are already paying $35-65 dollars a seat for? When I give away free music as an artist who performs in venues that have NO COVER, how do I make my recorded music seem a valuable item to an audience? You have to pay for something to value it. Do you expect to get free meals at a fancy restaurant? Or do you expect to get free gasoline at the pumps? My hard work went into the recording and my hard earned money too. The problem with this approach, is it's a lousy bandaid solution to a deeply troubling problem. The problem: This society does not value music enough. I don't know what the solution is, but I can tell you this, I know making it even less valuable, by giving it away like free balloons that POP, is not going to fix it.

  244. Tim Mungenast (2009-09-21) #

    So this band STARTED OUT selling $300 in CDs a night? Man, I'd love to see that kind of action. My last 4 discs have all gotten 4-star ratings in the All Music Guide, but I've never sold more than 3 or 4 discs at a show, ever (not counting my first CD release party), and I've been at this since 1992! Good reviews don't sell CDs. Having over 1,000 Friends on MySpace doesn't sell CDs. If only I could figure out which of these marketing ideas would actually work for ME in MY market... Maybe Boston is different: there's plenty of great bands here playing in front of 3 or 4 people. Yeah, your idea is innovative and worth a shot, but the whole battle gets me dowm sometimes. BTW, can anyone figger out how to fix busted songs on the MySpace player? Most of mine simply stopped working, and all attempts to re-upload songs have failed.

  245. Kristine Massari (2009-09-21) #

    Several years ago I went to Radio City to see Lord of the Dance and receiving a free promo CD with cuts from several tunes from the show. I bought the Cd when it came out and then went to see the show again when it came back to town. Good idea, Derek.

  246. Scott Porter (2009-09-21) #

    Great responses, but it seems that many are missing the point. It's about using some finesse to sell your audience the CD's, not give them away. It's about using "relationship leverage" to establish the emotional bond that makes people want to buy the music because they like you.

    This approach is a lot easier than the basic eyeball2eyeball sales pitch and it allows the artist to get a much better average price per CD.

  247. Bill B (2009-09-21) #

    Mmm... could be. I have stacks of CD's bands gave away free at gigs I never listened too, use for spare jewel boxes, etc. If they're giving them away free, that's what they're worth... nothing.

    On the other hand, experience has shown tee shirt sales at gigs are 5-to-1 over CD sales. A shirt, now that's something useful.

  248. Suzanne LainsonSuzanne Lainson (2009-09-21) #

    I read all the comments and I have a few thoughts:

    1. The person who asked what you do when you are playing in front of 600 people has a point. How do you handle the logistics for big shows?

    2. If every band starts to do this, will the novelty wear off? Perhaps people will take a CD from every band and pay less, on average, for each CD. Or maybe they will stop taking CDs from every band. I don't know.

    3. The emotional connection is more important than the price. The artist I know who sells the most CDs (and sells them for $15 each) connects so well with her audiences that she always sells lots of CDs. I was at a recent show where she sold 45 CDs at $15 each to an audience of 100 people.

    So saying that you worked so hard on the CD and are so proud of it that you want everyone to have it is a very good way to connect with your audience, especially if you haven't connected with them otherwise. But if you connect so well with your audience anyway that they are already clamoring for your CD, you might not need to do it.

    At any rate, I am eager to hear how this experiment works for everyone and how it continues to work once every band is doing it.

  249. Rose Merrill (2009-09-21) #

    That's it!,,,,,I'm gonna do that at my next gig,,,,,I give alot away,,especially to tourists,,,so my music gets heard in other countries too!

  250. Suzanne LainsonSuzanne Lainson (2009-09-21) #

    Another thought:

    The idea of the experiment is (1) you'll create goodwill among your audiences, (2) you'll get more CDs into circulation and hopefully gain new fans, and (3) you'll actually make more money.

    On that last point, the idea is that perhaps instead of selling a CD for $5-$15, you get some people who will give you $20.

    But will that happen if every band does this? If fans take a CD from every band, do they give $1 to a band they don't like much and $20 to a band that they love?

    Will they be more generous to a starving artist than to a rich artist?

    It will be interesting to see what the numbers look like once everyone does it. I suppose it will result in variable pricing based on a tip economy. Popular bands will get more per CD and less popular bands will get less. So the ultimate net result may be the same as today, but rather than the current system where popular bands sell more CDs at a fixed price, they will sell more CDs at a higher variable price. And the unpopular bands will sell more CDs than they currently do, but at a lower variable price.

  251. Ian HendersonIan Henderson (2009-09-21) #

    Hey Derek

    A lot of people missed your point, but then that's the point, isn't it???

    I've been looking for an angle like this - I think it's fantastic - I'm on tour at the moment and I'm going to try it for the rest of the tour.

    My special angle is that I tour as a solo singer-songwriter, mostly in South Africa, but I have an amazing, international-sounding release recorded with top session players in Sweden. When people take my record home they are ALWAYS blown away. Sometimes only 5% of the audience buy, sometimes 50% of the audience buy, but I would always give my left big toenail to have all of them take it home (without giving it away).

    Your story has provided the key I've been missing, while staring at the lock the last while. I'm definitely going to try it. Just mailed the record co. guy to make sure he's got more stock waiting for me!!!

  252. Ernie Hines (2009-09-21) #

    Hi Derek,

    You are always right on time with just the right kind of information.

    Thanks again for caring and sharing.

    Ernie Hines

  253. Kent Arnsbarger (2009-09-21) #

    Yah this in the right enviroment could be great. I have to say that in the last 5 years, I can't believe how CD sales have dropped off. These sales have not been completely replaced by downloads either (yet). I used to sell 70+ discs on a good day. Now in the same venue & same size crowd, 5-10. Maybe everyone there who would buy a disc HAS already. I used to sell them on ebay like fire, now the same. Very lack luster in comparison.

    I will certainly try this. I'm tired of my recordings and playing getting better, but no one wants to take me home with them!

    I really considered not making my newest album into a disc because of the drop. I just needed to though. Love the whole package. I think people do too really.

    Instant gratification. whether it be sitting at the computer or seeing you live, they want what they want, NOW.

    thanks for the article and many of the comments above.

    Kent

  254. Terri Mazurek (2009-09-21) #

    This idea is awesome Derek. Thanks for sharing it! Two key things are needed to make this work:

    1) Know your music mission: What your music offers others

    2) Make a damn fine CD

    If you know your music GIVES something to people and you know this CD will move people, you will be set!

    Again, you don't GIVE it away, you insist that people take it home, even IF they can't afford it.

    But of course, if you DON'T know what your music gives, and you DON'T believe in the CD, this idea is probably not for you.

    Remember, having a career as a performing musician is a service-industry job. It's about giving people something they need - whether it is fun, connection, inspiration, an open-heart, etc.

    If you are giving something of value and you ask people to pay for it (unless they can't), they ARE going to pay for it most of the time.

    Good luck!

  255. alysia tromblay (2009-09-21) #

    "...There is a crack in everything that is how the light gets in " Leonard Cohen- Anthem

    Thank you Derek for all the ways you "think out of the box" and so willinging share for those who dare
    Keep them coming!

  256. Scott Porter (2009-09-21) #

    This discussion rocks! So much of the experience of seeing a band live is context and not music. According to Brian Eno, the larger experience is intimately connected to who the artist appears to be, to his perceived life and charisma. "The 'music', the sonic bit could end up being quite a small part of the whole experience."

    So the artist must connect with the audience and sincerely 'sell' the whole experience, not just the music. The audience will pay to take a piece of that great experience home with them, namely the music CD (you can't listen to a T-shirt smile

  257. Lorisong (2009-09-21) #

    I feel like it still respects our music to offer it in this way, it's embracing what a lot of us preach, sharing and loving our communities, they get to love us back by buying it for whatever. I love it.
    It makes sense on a bigger scale.
    We always get what we need in life, as long as we are paying attention.
    xoxo from Seattle

  258. Tina Shafer Zizzo (2009-09-21) #

    I LOVED THIS! SO HELPFUL!!
    All our artists have that awkward moment at the end of the Songwriters Circle where they tell everyone to buy their CD.
    This was such a great way to position it.

    Thanks Derek and look forward to hearing you speak at our LOFT event Sept 29th at Ciao Bella 85th adn2nd!!! 7pm come all!!!

  259. TR KelleyTR Kelley (2009-09-21) #

    Pthbhthtbbpbpbp. Desperation marketing is not attractive, even in this format.

  260. Oona McOuatOona McOuat (2009-09-21) #

    Father Knows Best

    Okay - so I am a Daddy's girl. I ran this idea by my dad and got this rather mathematical response.

    For the record, I am going to try this way of sharing CDs at an upcoming concert and I am aware that each of the 1000 copies of my new CD cost me $15 to produce. There is little chance of breaking even let alone making actual profit on this run, but how much can I afford to lose on each CD sale in the name of getting my music out there?

    The question: What do you think of this Dad?

    The answer:
    Not much. Looks great but could be a money loser because there is a cost to every CD you produce.

    So they usually sold an average of $300 worth at $15 by selling 20 CDs.

    Under the new plan they sold an average of $1200 with a $10 average or 120 CDs.

    It does not say how many were given away free. Suppose it was another 40 or 50.

    There would be a loss of $5 on the first 120 ($10 instead of $15) which is $600 plus a loss of, say, $600 to $750 (40 x $15 or 50 x $15) on the free CDs. So the artist would be disposing of 160 or 170 CDs and getting $1200 for the first
    120 and 0 for the rest thereby losing $5 x 120 = $600 plus $15 x 40 or $15 x 50 ($600 or $750).

    So the artist would either break even or lose $150 depending on
    the number of CDs taken away (and therefore get nothing at all or suffer a loss as the CDs would be gone) instead of making the $300 by selling the 20 CDs in the first place.

    Love, Dad

  261. Emma Jo (2009-09-21) #

    What we're doing is sort of like comment #158, I suppose.

    We decided that, in addition to selling our full-length albums, we'd make a burned 5-song "sampler" CD (two songs from each of our two albums, plus a live track) and give it away at shows.

    We encourage people to sign up for the e-mail list, if they take a free CD.

    We just started this, so I guess we'll see how it goes. I like the idea from this post though... just doing it with the full-length album, I guess it couldn't hurt to do it for a few gigs and see what happens...

  262. John Slade (2009-09-21) #

    I'm playing Oct 2nd, I'll get back to you.

    Thanks.

  263. Sameer Jain (2009-09-21) #

    I think this is a brilliant way to create awareness, recall and reference and it can be applied to any field not only for music.

  264. Stefano Sciascia (2009-09-21) #

    It's one of the best ideas I ve heard for us musicians to give our message to the audience .

    Thank you for share .

    Stefano

  265. Suzanne Strickland (2009-09-22) #

    Reminds me of a time (8 yrs ago, when the idea of giving music away might have been unthinkable) when a film producer friend of mine, on a trip to Hollywood/Vegas, gave me grief over giving away ONE cd to a bagel shop guy. (I gave it away because I appreciated the special service he'd given me, and I thought he might be the sort who would enjoy my music, and yes, I was very excited about the new cd, so shoot me!)

    Seriously...We are artists first (Who are we really kidding, if we don't have a day job to support us during all of this?), and the money is most definitely secondary. I agree that Derek's idea was NOT to a plan to give away cds, but rather to reframe the "pitch" so as to not sound "pitchy" (pardon the pun).

    Some of my most memorable musician connections (on myspace) have been with artists who have taken the time to connect with their fans and to be generous in offering free music, in hopes of gaining more fans...which is the REAL measure of our success, IMO.

    Thanks again, Derek!
    ~Suzanne

  266. Евгений Robertson (2009-09-22) #

    thank you!

  267. Nicolas Deletaille (2009-09-22) #

    Thank you Derek for sharing this idea!

    I will experiment it on a email basis. I sent advertisement for a new DVD a few month ago and I sold perhaps 3 at 20 euros... (contemporary classical music)
    I am quite sure that, if I announce it well, I will send 25 DVDs with profit, even considering the shipping costs.
    By email, I can also control to whom I send it, which can be useful financially and in terms of promotion.

    I will let you know.
    Nicolas

  268. Udo Betz (2009-09-22) #

    Hi Derek,

    thank you very much for this idea.
    we just released a new cd and I'm sure that we try this concept at our next concerts.
    I'm very curious what will happen...

    Udo Betz

  269. Eric Heveron-Smith (2009-09-22) #

    Pretty wild to see how resistant a lot of people are to this idea. And also how many of them miss the point - the math, even. You won't just give away a bunch of CDs for free, you will SELL more!

  270. Andy De Rosa (2009-09-22) #

    great tip Derek,

    we will try this approach when the new album is out at the end of Oct!

    Cheers,

    Andy

  271. Andy De Rosa (2009-09-22) #

    What the Mississippi Kings did with their last album "Long Time Coming'" is to let fans download this for free (they put it into a zip file together with a PDF file as album cover/details). This opened up quite a few doors for them. For a start, I played some of the tracks on the radio when I was hosting a show on a Xmas Charity radio station here in the UK...;)

  272. Jose (2009-09-22) #

    The company MediaMark that sells electronic equipment in Spain tried to do this for one day:
    Take whatever you want, pay what you want. Benefits will go to non profits organisations.

    People took laptops, screens, hi-fi music players... the highest contribution was 1 euro.

    Interesting that the idea worked in Germany through.

    I think is a great idea for the people that likes-loves you,not for the general population, less for the "everything should be free" dude.

  273. Joseph N. Greenfield (2009-09-22) #

    Thanks Derek! As a Pastor, I have been doing this for sometime. From my experience, this is a very good approach. Also, as a singer, and an artist, obviously, I want to sell my music, however, as a Pastor I truly want them to have my music, money or no money, not just in an emotional way, but because I genuinely care for them and their well being. My feeling is, this approach will never be in question, and will more times than not, bring success.

  274. aranos (2009-09-22) #

    In 2000 I sold my CD "magnicent, magnificent, no one knows the final word" on internet by system where people ordered it, listened, sent as much as they wanted (cash in an envelope), or returned CD if they did not like it. Worked very well, lots of people sent embarrasingly large amounts (that is why I do not intent to repeat the experiment).
    It's not so new: in 19th century Budapest, hight of the Hungarian gypsy music, gypsy bands would refuse to get payed by the venue and prefered to collect, busk if you like in the cafes and restarant gigs, as they made more money that way.

  275. Ray Hurford (2009-09-22) #

    Dear Derek,

    Its true about the CD give away thing in any context. The cost of CDs are cheap enough to do that now.If they are buying a t.shirt, book, anything flat throw in a free CD. Still trying to work out a way to give away CDs with posters - does anyone make a roll up CD - Hahah.

    Keep up the good work
    Take care, all the very best
    Ray

  276. Jennifer Yeko (2009-09-22) #

    I've been to plenty of shows where the bands gave away free CDs. This concept only works if your music/show is REALLY good.... otherwise it just devalues music further...sure, most music *should* be free because most of the songs on myspace just aren't good...

  277. Marco Palos (2009-09-22) #

    Thanks Derek,

    You did great in explaining it. It was getting a little frustrating reading the responses all the way down with many people sounding offended by the idea.

    It really is a great idea. I personally think presentation is key... How do you approach the audience in saying this?

    It makes the difference whether you'll make it work or if it'll be a waste.

    We've been fortunate and blessed enough to make as little as $200 in a show by this method and as much as $3,400 in one night.

    Some people can sing their ass off, but can't talk to an audience for beans...

    If anyone out there is one that is better at singing than talking or making this offer to your audience... Practice it. Video tape yourself. Watch it. Show friends. Get the constructive criticism and you'll get it eventually.

    If you don't like the idea... Well, don't give it a try. But if you DO give it a try... Make your moment count, or else you really are just wasting your time and you'll be back in the place of saying... Nah, this isn't for me.

    Cheers everyone!

    ~Marco

    p.s. I like the car bomb idea... That sounds like fun and I think my band members will love that. We'll take turns between the 9 of us, lol.

  278. Mike (2009-09-22) #

    I'll try it !
    There's a restaurant who does this with their customers at lunch time....Pay what you want for your meal....Apparantly they have doubled their attendance at lunch time and this idea has given them a ton of publicity with local media...Emotions are a powerful thing !

    - Mike

  279. Jenya (2009-09-22) #

    Thanks Derek,

    We will try that on our next show.
    Also I think that mentioning that the money will go into band's next album (if it's going to be released soon) should help as well.

    Cheers,

    Sumo Elevator

  280. Toggo (2009-09-22) #

    Great advice, thanks!

  281. Saiichi Sugiyama (2009-09-22) #

    Derek, you've lived in London - so you will know this. The Brits are a cynical lot and also misery - as you can see by the way waitresses and cab drivers are tipped in this country (or not tipped).

    I am interested in giving it a go but I am afraid that the Brits will probably not respond in the same way - they will probably interpret our attempt to connect with the audience in this way as a desperate attempt at getting rid of CDs that can't be sold.

    What's your view?

  282. Lenora Zenzalai HelmLenora Zenzalai Helm (2009-09-22) #

    Love this Derek! Did a version of this at my Butterfly Concert series kick-off this past weekend. I will continue for the next 11 concerts and report back. As usual, thanks for your inspiration and insight.

  283. Signe Miranda (2009-09-22) #

    I'll give it a try. I used to sell my 5-song acoustic (professionally manufactured) EP for $7, but people kept suggesting that I should sell it for $10 or they just payed $10 and told me to keep the change. If someone says that they can't afford $10, then I sell it for less ($5, once I sold it for $3, sometimes a CD trade with another musician). I've also had people pay me $20 and once $100. So, I'd like to give it a try, because my current on-stage approach isn't working too well. I'm a bit shy about trying to sell the CD from the stage and this is a way of making less of a traditional "sales-pitch", taking the emphasis off of the sale and putting it on the actual music.

    I make almost as many sales when I meet new people and they ask if I have a CD, as I do at shows. (I always keep a couple of CDs with me, in case I meet someone who wants to buy it, or someone who I'd like to give it to.) When they ask how much it is, I often say, "I usually sell it for $10." Most of the time they'll pay $10. Do you suggest trying this "pay-what-you-can" approach for this type of non-show sale too? Would you just say something like, "I'm really proud of this CD. How much would you like to pay?"

    Also, what are your thoughts on CD trades with other musicians? Most people I know will do trades. I've done a lot of CD trades and have so many now that I haven't had a chance to listen to all of them yet. I have a couple of friend who won't do trades. They sell their CD for a specific price and consider a trade to be giving it away for free. Most people who attend indie shows in Toronto are musicians. One of the people I know who doesn't do trades, sells more CDs than most solo acoustic musicians do at local Toronto shows, but that might be partly due to the fact that this person comes across as confident.

    How about online sales? Would this approach increase online sales too? I know that on many websites, you have to sell it for a specific price, but you can have a variable price on your own website, using the "donation" button with Paypal, but it won't add a shipping cost if you use this type of button.

    I'll let you know how it works for me, trying this method at my shows.

  284. Simon BrooksSimon Brooks (2009-09-22) #

    I am not a musician. I am a storyteller, but I read your posts as I always find them enriching and other words too! I already have two CDs which I sell between 3 - 8 in a night at library venues, usually to economically challenged communities. Both CDs are for families/kids but adults love what I do too - I have a adult fan base as well as family.
    On Saturday I am doing an adult evening and will, for shits and giggles, try this out. I will keep you posted. I do NOT make a lot of money doing what I do (right now) but my CDs are very professional and sound great and were not cheap to make - Steven Blanchard above engineered my second one (if it is the same S.B.) and did a great job!

  285. Marty McGill (2009-09-22) #

    Gonna give it a try on Friday... Bring it....

  286. PierreSmackPierreSmack (2009-09-22) #

    I am going to try this on something totally unrelated to the music business and see how it goes! I will let you know.

  287. DimpsforU (2009-09-22) #

    I produce my cd's in bulk at 5.00 a piece. I sell them for 8.00 which is still a good price. I also give them a cd of covers songs that I absolutely love that I perform on the cd that I am giving them. So my fans get 2 cd's for 8.00. Plus they are getting a cd of of my favorite songs on a personal level. This makes my fan feel closer to me.

  288. Trevor Pope (2009-09-22) #

    Just wanted to say that this is confirmation to me trying this approach a few months ago at a concert I did. A friend told me he had done something like this and encouraged me to try it. Normally I would sell my cds for $10 each. But on this specific night I just told everyone no matter what they had to come up and get a cd. I ended up getting $210 for 24 cds which is almost an average of $10 a piece and that even included the ones that I gave out for free. I know that if I would have said that I was selling them for $10 each I wouldn't have sold that many. But because I made that personal connection with the crowd it enabled me to get off more cds. This article is just proof that I should continue on doing the same in events to come because I haven't done it since.

    Keep on dishing out this type of information because it is needed.

    God Bless You Derek,

    Minister Trevor Pope

  289. Brad Yoder (2009-09-22) #

    great idea!
    I always buy CDs on spindles for easy giveaways, and always give them to people who are working (behind the counter, etc.) at shows I play. CDs off the spindle are cheaper, and many folks just load the music into their iTunes/etc. anyway. It's a way to give away more music less expensively.
    I really like the "everyone takes a CD" approach, though--I will try it out.
    brad yoder :]

  290. marco peter (2009-09-22) #

    hi guys thats how we sold 23'000 cd's
    since we are all living with girlfriends from the music mostly passing the hat selling cd's we tell te people always that here and now is the only place to get the cd's and if they dont have money that they still shoud get a cd.By the way if you are a musician living from the hat try this:
    if at a table nobody is willing to put some coins in the hat just tell them to take some coins out of the hat for a beer or some cigarettes or so.with the hint that there is enough money in the world and that it is just badly distributed.and that you have the big luck making your money by playing on the street and that its no problem to help somebody out who cant play on the street.you will see that alway somebody from the table takes out the wallet even considering buyng a cd and that unfortunately only few people have the guts to be invitet for a beer by street musicians for a beer which actually is a lot of fun.i like your artikle encouraging gift economy and i hope that all you guys could give up focussing on just making money as the goal of life.means your idea is good but it doesent have to be explained by the increase of income.all your luck in live comes from what you eat how you feel your experience and so forth so please stop beeing money junkies and start to live!!!

  291. Gabe Tavares (2009-09-22) #

    Nice concert photo! Much better than that frame drummer for sure!

  292. Kathy Moore (2009-09-22) #

    I have been moving in this direction, and practicing similar actions. I like how it was handled in the example: giving people options, and speaking from the the heart about being proud of cd, working hard to create it, and just wanting nobody to leave without one. I am going to follow these steps.

    peace, music, and gratitude,
    Kathy Moore

  293. Ron Parizek (2009-09-22) #

    Derek, I think it's a great idea, we have been trying a similiar approach with very good success.In a 60 -90 minute concert I'll mention our sales table in the middle and end of our performance and state that if they love the show, they will find special pricing at our table, and the most important thing being we will continue to share our memory of the night and noone will be refused.
    Other points made here are valid, the performance needs to be top notch no matter what the genre. The Cd's must be there too! It all ties together in a package to move the artist.The payoff takes time, faster for some slower for others, but perseverence is key.
    - Ron/ BPS

  294. Phil and Pam Morgan (2009-09-22) #

    I'm intrigued by this!! A couple of questions... How would this work for groups with many CDs? We've been out for 13 years and keep 6 CDs current to offer on our table. I can see if you have one title, the folks that give more can make up for the freebies, but what about folks that want a free copy of everything? Any ideas?

  295. Mark Johnson (2009-09-22) #

    One of the many bands I formed back in the late 1980s and early 1990s use to do this at live shows in California, but back then there were no CDs, we gave away free cassette tapes, there were no downloads, but it was amazing how many people would put a $5 dollar bill or more in the tip jar while taking our FREE cassette, and the next time we played that area again, sure enough more people would turn out.

    Once the band I was part of known as FUGITIVE got more well known in Central California, we were approached by promoters to open for well known signed artists such as Jackson Browne, Bob Seger, Chicago, The Drifters, The Platters, Tom Petty, The Jesse Dreamer Band, The MoFo Party Band and so on.

    We made a lot of money and made a lot of new fans but never did get signed to a record label, but the experiences were priceless, I also sold over 30,000 copies of my music videos once I was a solo artist, I sold them on consignment through TOWER RECORDS as well as I sold over 50,000 copies of my solo artist cassette tapes through TOWER RECORDS and SAM GOODY.

    Sometimes when you put a price on a CD or cassette tape at a venue, people ignore it, but you offer it for free and it's surprising how many people will leave a tip.

    Good post Derek.

    Peace

    ~Mark Johnson~

  296. Sharon Dean (2009-09-22) #

    I just want to confirm that this is true and that it really does work! I started doing this same thing about three years ago, not for sales, but because I really wanted everyone to leave with the CD. (I simply didn't want them sitting in my garage..I wanted people to be enjoying them). But amazingly, the money followed and somehow we began selling more product. There would even be people from the audience who would come to the table and offer to purchase one for someone who didn't have the money, or tell us to keep the $20.00 when they saw my heart was to truly be a blessing to others. I spent a lot of time, money, and energy recording my CD, and it was worth more than money to get it into people's hands and keep spreading my message!

  297. Suzanne LainsonSuzanne Lainson (2009-09-22) #

    I'd like to hear about how to handle multiple CDs as well. The artist I mentioned before who always sells lots of CDs at $15 has 8 titles out.

    She sells them all for the same price, but in the past she has given a discount if you bought most or all of the titles at the same time.

  298. Sebastian Devicente (2009-09-22) #

    Hey there... Well, it looks like I'll be right after comment number 297 or so - so I doubt anyone will ever read this (Mr. Derek Sivers included) - Thanks for the space Derek! But, what the hell...

    I believe the whole idea of comming up with new ways to make more money - be it utilizing psychological techniques or by gun point - is absolutely revolting. It makes me want to vomit. Makes me want to yell out: "Money is the root of all EVIL!!!"...

    (Listen to "VANITY KILLED THE DRUGS" @ www.myspace.com/thevidya)

    However we must take in consideration that I was born South of the Equator and raised with a fake silver spoon amid screams in the Tropics - In other words: A tad too sensitive and emotionally unbalanced.

    Paradox is: I believe in the TRUTH and I believe in FREEDOM. So inspite of my feelings I must admit that the line of thinking expressed by Mr. Sivers is both correct and even humanitarian.

    Further more, it made me think (In a backwards way) about the real reasons behind making all of THE VIDYA's MUSIC 4 EVER FREE by vowing to no matter what, always making our MP3 available at no cost to our fans - For Ever as in an eternal commitment!

    THE VIDYA is for whoever wants it. Making our MUSIC 4 FREE is the only way to ensure that not one person who wants it will ever not have it. It's an OPEN connection AND EVERYTHING ELSE AFTER THAT IS A JUST A BEAUTIFUL LOVE AFFAIR. THAT'S WHAT THE VIDYA STANDS FOR.

    Writing this was a great time. All the best to the reader and may peace always be our highest value.

    - Sebastian DeVicente

  299. Tedi MayTedi May (2009-09-22) #

    I love this way of thinking..
    I am designing my new blog for my Appalachian Soul Trio~ "Dirt road Delight"to have a place where we give away free information for people that will help them~ Living foods advice, fiddle lessons, bass lessons, singing tips, sustainable practices..And along with that, hopefully they will take a look at the beautiful music we are creating smile

  300. Charles Nwabueze (2009-09-22) #

    Another great idea, I like that and would try it out. Thanks

  301. Ray Quarles (2009-09-22) #

    I have my first 2 cd's with cdbaby, and all associated internet sites. My current cd, 'early in the Morning' I am only giving away, in person, to folks I meet during the course of my days, performing, at the dentist, anywhere. i find that the pursuit of money for my art takes away from the art. SO, I am sharing the art with EVERYONE I meet.
    When I run out of cd's, I make more. Should someone offer a donation, I accept, tho my emphasis is on the gift, not the money... : )

  302. Matt Westcott (2009-09-22) #

    I can see why a band would want to do this - it forces the hand of the audience, transforming the question "how much would you pay for this?" into "how much *will* you pay for this?".

    However, the thing that bothers me is this: what if a mediocre band tries it (and - almost by definition - most bands are)? Maybe I genuinely don't value their CD at any more than beer money, but at the same time I don't want to insult them by refusing a CD or paying them a derisory amount for it. (And no matter how convincingly they protest that they're happy to give it away, I know they don't mean it - if I pay less than their unit cost, I'm ripping them off, plain and simple.) At that point, it basically becomes an emotional blackmail tactic, just like the squeegee guy at the traffic lights.

  303. Don Blevins (2009-09-22) #

    It's good advertisement whether you sell any or not. People don't forget the free stuff. They may want a buy T-shirt or cap. It most likely will increase your fan base.
    Mmmm.. wonder if the local CD store wants to do that?

  304. Ochi (2009-09-22) #

    Hey I like new, creative ideas especially when mine don't work. lol Yeah I'm game. Besides people forget we don't have to give away the entire CD. We can make up samples with 1 or 2 songs for give away. Great idea! Thanks man

  305. Jennarosa (2009-09-22) #

    Derek plants the seed of an opportunity, which we all can follow or not in creative ideas. We feel proud of what we achieve with our music, and relate to our fans and audience to feel proud too. Most of our fans spread the news about our music, CDs, festivals so we like to reward them as well. With most our CDs selling for $15.00 each we put a special out at gigs, and related programs for them to buy 3 CDs for $25.00 and that has worked very well. And if there was only one CD we would give them an autograph poster Free of the Artists or band or a one music track Free, with the autograph on the CD or cover.

  306. Jason Meyer (2009-09-22) #

    People aren't talking about the big elephant in the room. And that would be the fact that many songwriters really aren't that good. There is a lot of music that people wouldn't buy because it sucks. So, make sure that whatever you put out is the best you can do and that is all you can do. I went to a show recently that had this dude who no one had ever heard of but his music was phenomenal and he was selling his CD's like crazy. He was also a great showman which is another factor. If you don't connect with your audience, don't expect them to want your music.

  307. Mike Glendinning's Machine In The Sky (2009-09-22) #

    It works! Trust me it WORKS!

  308. Gabe (2009-09-23) #

    A fine idea, and up my alley, if you have actual cashflow, that is. Which I don't. I don't suppose you know anyone willing to lend me money to have the CDs made in the first place on the strength of this business plan? Maybe you'd be willing to put your money where your mouth is!

  309. John Hadfield (2009-09-23) #

    I love the idea - but as a performer doing kid / family shows I'd need to put a minimum price on the CD ($5 maybe) or there would be a stampede of kids grabbing free CDs after the show and I'd be left with nothing. Seriously.

  310. Randy Feuers (2009-09-23) #

    I do have a couple of cds for sale at www.cdbaby.com but I do not have my own band at this time!

    When I get my new band going I will try this as it sounds like a good idea!

    Big Ran Feuers

    web site www.bigranfeuers.com

    myspace www.myspace.com/bigranfeuers

  311. Andre DonawaAndre Donawa (2009-09-23) #

    Hi Derek,
    Interesting responses to this topic.
    I'm seeing that a lot of the negative responses are probably due to people misinterpreting what you are suggesting.

    Maybe you should have started by saying.

    "Here's a way to sell more CD's and make more money.
    It worked for this band and it might work for you."

    I'm going to perform at the Y2K9 International Live Looping Festival (8th Annual)in Santa Cruz and I've been working on a CD that represents what I'll be doing at the show.

    I was trying to think of a way to make the best of this trip and sell some CD's and promote myself. I've never really felt comfortable asking people to buy my CD's, but I think this is a great idea. I'll give it some thought and see if I can come up with my own spin on it.

    Coming from Barbados, it's a brand new venue and audience so I won't have any before and after comparison info but I'll let you know how it went.
    You're right! That's a great way to put it. Funny how the title or lead-in sentence can frame everything else. Thanks for the suggestion. -- Derek

  312. Roy Addams (2009-09-23) #

    This all sounds good but I don't have enough faith in people that this would work.. at least in my region. I have to buy our CDs for $5.50 a unit form the label and I sell them for $10. The story says this band was selling for $15 and making $200 a night. My Gods, that's a record breaker in my area. Bands here can't sell a single copy for $3, let alone $15. Honestly, I wouldn't even pay $15 for a Dimmu Borgir album (unless it came with a bonus-DVD).

    My doubts are that people would take the CD, just to take the CD, even if they weren't into us. In which case it would just collect dust under the seat of their car untill it falls out. With what I've seen, odds are I'll be giving away 25 CDs in a night($250) and be lucky if I get $5 on five of them($20).

    Like someone said above. This is only financially feasable if your CD cost you only a couple bucks per unit.

  313. Cyril Darensbourg (2009-09-23) #

    thank you, we will try this at our next show.

  314. Dale (2009-09-24) #

    Dear Derek, thanks for your wonderful input. What would we do without you?! I tried the technique you mentioned last night in a bar that I've played nearly every week for the past 9 months. I've probably sold no more than 10 CD's in total for the whole of this time. Last night I sold 8 cd's and the 'donations' were well-over my expectations. One guy took 3 cd's and paid £25. Someone else gave £6 for 1, and another guy gave £5 for 1. People said that they would return next week with more cash for cd's. On the whole, I found that people paid the sums that I would normally charge and in some cases more. Moreover, think of depreciation with those cd's sitting on your shelf whilst you are paying for company tax, bar-codes and the like. It's far better that CD's are out there promoting you. No-one took CD's for free either. The response to the offer of taking one for free has a kind of eastern philosophy behind it akin to Karma. I'm converted!
    All the best, Dale

  315. Mark Falchook (2009-09-24) #

    I doubt that most of those responding positively to this suggestion are doing this as full time professionals. When you have an alternate source of income it's easy to play with this sort of experiment. But those of us that are professionals spend a lot of money and time on these recordings; it's not just a "good enough", semi-pro project; it's our life as well as our income. This gimmick devalues our artform; plain and simple. After a lifetime of honing my craft, I'm not willing to use "the sympathy card" to GOAD people into buying my recording. This technique may appeal to those whose primary focus is turning cd's into cash, but I'm sorry; I won't beg. I want people to be willing to pay a reasonable price for my art, and not have the expectation that "whatever you want to pay" (or even nothing) is good enough. I slaved over every single audible and visual detail of that cd, and I'll not cheapen it in this manner.

  316. Simon Holden (2009-09-24) #

    Derek, this is a great piece. To the naysayers who don't wish to "cheapen themselves" by doing this I'd just point to how Radiohead successfully sold their album "In Rainbows" this exact way.

    If you're not prepared to try different things you'll just keep getting the same mediocre results. If you like having boxes of unsold CDs in your basement, great! I don't and I'm willing to shift them for whatever they're worth to my audience. People are intimidated by "merch tables" unless they have a reason to go there. The idea that they can get something free is a great way to break down that resistance.

    Often artists are THE WORST at promoting themselves. Some don't even mention they have a CD because they don't want to be seen as "pushy". This "emotional connection" way of promotion is a great way to open up to your audience.

    Additionally, I think it's as important for bands to REHEARSE their "between song patter" as it is to rehearse their songs. There's nothing worse than a rambling, unintelligible rant in-between songs to kill the mood you worked so hard to create with your music. Rehearsing your intros and announcing your merchandise really takes the guesswork out of it. The rest of the band can make suggestions if your message is not coming across succinctly enough and you can hone your message for maximum effectiveness.

    The most professional stage acts rehearse every last detail in their show - even the bits that LOOK spontaneous. They go up on stage knowing exactly what they're going to say and what effect it's supposed to have on their audience. The more professional a show you put on the more likely people will respond to your CD.

  317. Martin Richmond (2009-09-24) #

    I've been experimenting with the whole CWF+RTB=$$ thing for a few months. I have now added an online version of this "take a CD and pay what you can" to my website. I am a recording artist 3 albums as the artist known as MRDC (Rocktronica). Now you can listen to my full length streaming mp3's all free, and take a copy of my debut with you just for checking out my website. I'll keep track of well this goes or does not smile

  318. Jose Castro-FrenzelJose Castro-Frenzel (2009-09-24) #

    @ Blasko, even if it costs you some money and you break even, you still win. WHY bc the more people who have your CD, the stronger your Brand/Band name becomes. You really can't afford not to do this. At worst case scenario you can't afford not to do this. People are your real estate in this industry.

    _ Just my thoughts.

    Pura Musica,

    Jose Castro-Frenzel

  319. Evyn Charles (2009-09-24) #

    Tried this last night at a showcase/open mic type of event. Normally, I wouldn't even have tried to sell CDs. It was Tuesday after Labor Day for Heaven's sake! There were very few people in attendance, more songwriters than audience, you know the drill... Well, I put a stack of CDs on a side table and pretty much used the wording in question ("pay what you can..."). Sold 3 CDs ($10+$10+$7). And the $7 guy bought me a beer ;)

  320. Roy StoneRoy Stone (2009-09-24) #

    Totaly agree....but a band who's CD's are better than the live version, due to the usual problems bands have with varying levels of ability & commitment from different musicians would be wise to exercise caution !!

  321. Tim (2009-09-24) #

    I, will a little help from my friends, am going to extend Derek's great idea to a research project to see if this method of connecting with the audience really does increase musicians and band's overall cd sales and fan base. I would love to hear from bands and musicians who would love to get involved.

    We are looking for musicians and bands who are unsigned, are likely to play at least 14 gigs in 3-4 months and who have enough cds to sell at those gigs, have a current release, have a MySpace page (and have had one for at least a year) and also sell their music online (iTunes, Amazon etc). If this is you and you would like to participate in this research please send me an email - tim.austin@blindsightmusic.com.au, and I will let you know more about the intended research.

    Once the research is completed and the results are in we will be submitting a report to various music industry organizations and press outlets.

    We would greatly appreciate your involvement! Hope to hear from you soon.

    Cheers,

    Tim Austin

  322. Paul Nye (2009-09-24) #

    Like John Hadfield mentioned earlier, I too, do kid / family shows. He's right about kids stampeding to the merch table and grabbing CDs. Little risky for guys like us. However, I sell my CDs at $10 a pop anyway. Then I put together packages. 2 for $15. 3 for $25. It moves product. (Hey, these CDs cost less than $2 to make, depending on how many you print.) I don't play clubs - concerts only, so I have a dedicated listening audience. Selling CDs has never been a big deal to me. I sell them simply because of what I do. However, Simon Holden, along with others, mentioned that your show has to be good, very rehearsed so that it even sounds spontaneous. That's the point I'm at. VERY important. I can tell you how long any of my shows will be to the minute. It works great. Always leave them wanting more.
    One thing I've done is printed up 500 blank CDs with my name/logo/general copyright info, and a blank space to write with a permanent marker pen. Then I burn my recently recorded "new" material - songs that will eventually be put on the next disc - on that and sell it as a "demo" (maximum # of songs is 6). Often an artist will play a new song in concert and people ask for that song. If you don't have it available, you could lose a sale. Performing the new songs in concert hones and tests the song. However, I have my own studio, so it's pretty convenient for me rip a bunch of demo CDs.
    The "free" thing isn't a new concept. I believe national Christian artist Keith Green did this back in the early 1980s. He, too, sold more recordings (LPs & cassettes no less) than he did with his older recordings. In fact, I believe he did this with about 3 of his last recordings up until the time of his death.
    Thanks for the tips Derek!

  323. jean dominiquejean dominique (2009-09-24) #

    sounds about right to me. I usually give out my cds for free.

  324. Josh Craig (2009-09-24) #

    I've been doing this for 3 years now

  325. Kevin Rees (2009-09-24) #

    Interestingly, The Enid (greatest prog rock band of all time!) are doing just this, but with their ENTIRE catalog. I'd like to know how they're getting along with this.

  326. Busted KeysBusted Keys (2009-09-25) #

    i wonder then, if this works so well would that mean recorded music has been relegated to a marketing tool for other income streams?

    more specifically, if i were solely to make a living licensing my music for sync without doing live gigs, how then could i use recorded music to market myself for those kinds of uses?

  327. Dennis Gunn (2009-09-25) #

    I have made no money on internet sales. May as well off the ones in my storage unit in Portland that took seven years to produce. Just might earn enough to record the ones currently crushing my brain...

  328. Michael C. Robinson (2009-09-25) #

    Great idea! We're going to give this a shot with our 5 cut EP to set the stage for our upcoming 12 cut CD.

  329. Todd Haddad (2009-09-26) #

    Derek,
    I do not play live much any more (have 4 young children) but have been doing this with my jazz CD's for some time. I have found that by giving someone a copy for free has increased the amount I sell. It also is great to see and hear the response to my music. For a jazz artist especially, it is nice to know that people actually enjoy your creation of music. The sales will come if it is quality and appealing. Though some probably will not agree with giving away your music, I found it has been very beneficial. Thanks for your light on this idea and glad to hear others are doing it too.

  330. Lisa JacobiLisa Jacobi (2009-09-26) #

    Hi Derek-

    As promised in our post #152 we took a run with your suggestion at our performance last night at a great festival in north Georgia. When we have played there in the past, we sell a handful of CDs due to the fact, there are numerous bands each playing 1 hour sets and audience members only have so much "walking around money." So we never expect too much of a cd sales income at this particular venue.

    We did what you suggested and stuck EXACTLY to the script in a very heartfelt and genuine manner. Here are the results:

    1. The standing room only audience broke into applause and had huge smiles across their faces that added even more love and warmth to an already outstanding and energized show.

    2. We asked that everyone wait until after the next band played in order not to pull anyone from their audience... but when we got to our dressing room there was already a line of folks waiting with... you got it... money in hand and love in their hearts and smiles on their faces.

    3. Some folks walked up and handed us a few dollars or $5 for a cd that normally retails at $15. But many walked up with $20 and told us to keep the change. Only one person had nothing to pay other than a hug, which to us was priceless, because you could tell that he was going to cherish that CD for a long long time.

    4. People kept coming and coming and coming and almost everyone wanted to talk about our show and what they liked and what they will remember and how they would come to future shows.

    We are still speechless and look forward to seeing how many of these audience members contact us online after hearing the CD.

    We play an even bigger concert tonight in another part of the Southeast that has a much higher ticket price. We are going to do this again and see what the results are. Are you curious to hear?

    Love
    LJ
    Steel String Session
    Awesome! Yes please let me know the results of the next few, too. Thanks! -- Derek

  331. Suzanne LainsonSuzanne Lainson (2009-09-26) #

    As people recount their stories of this technique, it would be helpful to know how many CDs they sell and how big an audience.

    I was very active with selling CDs for one artist. A few years ago we put together a business plan based on three years of sales history. I noticed that rarely did I sell less than one CD per 10 people in the audience. That was the worst case scenario. Best case scenario was about 4 CDs per 10 people in the audience. That was selling CDs at $15 each or a little less if bought in multiples.

    The numbers would be different now because more people have access to digital, but my point is that I could give you some very accurate sales figures.

    So the more specifics people can share, the better.

  332. Sue Scott (2009-09-26) #

    Gave this idea a "test run" today at a coffee shop Steve plays frequently. The "tip jar" is usually pretty barren, and we're lucky if we sell one or two CDs. Today? We put the CDs on the table next to the jar, Steve made the announcement three times during the show (We would love it if everyone here today would take a CD home with you. We think it's pretty great, and want to share it. Pay what you can, just make sure you get the music.) Today's total? 7 CDs taken, $152 in the jar. (We asked them to just drop their cd "donations" in the jar).

    Awesome, awesome! Thanks again, Derek!

  333. Rachel Walker (2009-09-26) #

    It's a great idea. I did this with my first cd. I then felt like I wanted to make a stand for the integrity of music and charged only, but coming full circle, I agree, giving is energizing. Whether you are marketing your music, looking for return, or just being generous, the principle still works.
    Thanks Derek!
    Rachel

  334. Lisa JacobiLisa Jacobi (2009-09-27) #

    OKay, here goes round two and follow up on our post #152 & #330.

    We had a big performance concert in Dalton, Georgia last night. We were one of four groups to take the stage, with CMT supergroup, Mountain Heart (great guys!) as the Headliner. Their CD table was next to ours. We thought we would have no hope of significant sales with that sort of *choice* available to someone wanting a music CD with which to remember the evening.

    Midway through our show, we took a moment to address the audience sticking with "Sivers-script" that worked so beautifully the night before at a very different venue.

    Funny thing happened to us this time as we spoke about our connection to the CD and sharing this live performance with what was a higher-ticket paying audience... tears came to our eyes, because the ticket sales were raising money for unemployed carpet factory workers in the region. So for some reason, it just meant a lot to us.

    Here are the results: there was 20 minutes of downtime between our set and the next band. A line in the upstairs audience hall, was waiting for us at our merch table. Except for one person, we never received anything less than a $20 bill for our CD which is regularly $15. No one wanted change. One elderly lady with her clutch purse, gave us $5 but said she didn't own a CD player, she wanted it for her grandson who was learning to play the guitar. I suspect it was the first time she had ever purchased a music cd.

    Unfortunately, du to horrendous weather conditions and flooding roads in the area, we departed midway through the evening, so we didn't experience the post concert audience meet and greet. I can only imagine how it would have gone with the full onslaught.

    You called it on this one Derek. In addition to increased sales, it allows for us to share a moment of goodness in the world, which to us is worth much much more. We can't thank you enough.

    LJ
    Steel String Session

  335. chris burke-gaffney (2009-09-27) #

    It WAS a great idea ... but now that every indie band with a cdbaby account (and how many is that?)is doing it.
    Ah, you overestimate. I'll bet maybe 40-50 people actually try it. -- Derek

  336. Kent Arnsbarger (2009-09-28) #

    this has been a topic I've thought about everyday since learning about it here. The other day while on our way to see Fred Eaglesmith in concert in Chicago I told my wife about it. She thought it couldnt hurt.

    That night the opening act did this VERY thing! My wife looked at me with amazement & said well, she had to go pick up a CD!

    I haven't been in a situation yet where I could do this, but the first gig that I can, I will.

    Wish summer was just starting :^(

  337. Richard Hunter (2009-09-28) #

    I tried this suggestion today at a 2-hour solo performance at a farmer's market in Weston, CT. Here's what happened:

    I brought 50 CDs to the gig. I repeated over and over to this crowd, starting with my hellos, that I wanted 50 people to go home with CDs, whether they paid for them or not. Ultimately I sold or gave away 36 CDs at prices ranging from $0 to $20 for total revenue of $156, almost exactly $4.33 per unit. (About $15 of that revenue was actually food--farmer's market, remember? When I finished performing, three farmers came over to me, one by one, and gave me apples, pears, and coffee beans. I was very moved, the food is quite good, and it's as good as money to me.)

    For this size crowd--about 100 people--normally I'd have sold about 15 CDs at $10 each. So the total take was similar, my cost was about $20 higher (about $1 per CD), I collected a lot of email addresses, and over 20 people went home with my music who otherwise wouldn't have. And I don't think anyone at that gig will forget me soon. The goodwill I generated today was substantial.

    One interesting thing: many people seemed to feel obligated to pay, and not to take a CD unless they did, no matter how often I told them it was perfectly okay to take a CD home for free. Go figure.

    For me this experiment was a success. I'll certainly try it again. Today a lot more people have my music in their hands than is usual for a gig like this, and I got paid for it. I'd MUCH rather end up printing a couple thousand more CDs to sell at an average price of $4 apiece than sit on boxes of CDs that a lot of people won't buy at $10 apiece.

    I plan to share this idea with a couple of other mailing lists I belong to.

    Thanks Derek (as always) and regards,

    Richard Hunter
    http://taxi.com/rhunter
    http://hunterharp.com

  338. John-Alex Mason (2009-09-28) #

    Dear Derek, thank you for posting this! Your article pushed me over an edge that I was afraid of crossing for a long time. Some background: I am a full time musician for 9 1/2 years, I have six titles out, have sold about 5000 cds total, placed another 3000 and have played anywhere from 75 to 250 shows a year since starting out. I live in Colorado Springs, not by any means a music market but I have traveled extensively with my music all over the world.

    Last night I had my last show in Colorado before December. My family and I are moving to your neck of the woods and it was my last show at a BBQ Restaurant I have played every warm weather Sunday for 5 years. I tried what you prescribed here and had exceptional results. I sold 42 CDs and added 12 names to my mailing list. Best night every in volume and income at this location. Basically a quadruple on all fronts. I would estimate attendance to be about 100 to 150 through the night.

    What makes this special to me is that many of these folks were long time fans, a lot of them own my CDs already, most of them are already on my mailing list. There was a heightened emotional state for everyone, because I am moving on, but this truly allowed me to connect with my fans and thank them for their support.

    I announced the offer from stage 4 times through the 4 hours I played and made a sign to put next to my CDs so that everyone knew what was going on. In addition I asked folks to sign up on my mailing list as part of the announcement. I also called a fan to attention who did take advantage of the offer between songs so that everyone knew that I was serious about what I was saying.

    Why now? I think the reason that I wasn’t ever willing to try something like this was that I wasn’t ever willing to give/offer/let go of my music to the listeners until recently. My evolution as an artist has come to the point where I am willing sing and play and write unconditionally. To work from a place of abundance rather than scarcity. There are realities, but this change of attitude is finally blooming out.

    Therefore my offering CDs to fans for whatever they could pay was an honest statement. I was not trying to goad my audience, as another post said, I love them. I truly wanted them to take home my music no matter what. And I believe that I expressed that honestly enough, so that they wanted me to have whatever they put in my CD box in exchange. It felt really good, to everyone.

    I am going to use this from now on. Because it feels right to me. Maybe when I press vinyl later this year I won’t do this because the margins aren’t as large. But I am excited to try this with CDs in the Northwest when I move, to see how it effects my introduction and build out of a fan base. I will let you know.

    Thank you again. Best Regards, John-Alex Mason

  339. Don Robinson (2009-09-28) #

    Hey Derek.I Did a concert here in Woonsocketlast Sat. Asked for only affordable donations.Free cd`s if you had no money
    I made MORE MONEY than I EVER did before, and I made more money than the three other acts that were on the show that eve.
    Great Idea! Thanks ,
    Don Robinson aka The Inspirations,
    Woonsocket, RI.

  340. Sam Stray (2009-09-28) #

    BRILLIANT!
    I'VE NEVER CHARGED FRIENDS FOR ANY OF MY MUSIC.

  341. Ian HendersonIan Henderson (2009-09-29) #

    OK, tried it Saturday night, on the last night of my national tour and it worked.... BRILLIANTLY! Ok, this is a sample size of 1, so I'm going to run it a few more times before I talk too much, but I more or less did exactly what Terry recommended and saw similar results: turnover 4x up, only a 10% drop in avg. CD price and a very happy audience (and a surprised but excited record company guy, who was at the show). Nice!

  342. Stephanie Delk (2009-09-29) #

    Hey!I used this approach at my last gig and had a really great result. Gave out more CDs and made more money than usual. In addition, more people signed up for my mailing list and stopped by to talk to me post set.
    Thanks!
    ~Stephanie

  343. neil parek (2009-09-29) #

    Yes, a great idea.. My band The Surrender has a practice of always giving away CDS.. but this takes it one step furthersmile

    BTW... Each blog page should have a link to "email to a friend"... kind of like how online news articles do. I find myself copy and pasting your blogs into emails often, this would make it easier to share your stories

    Best-Neil

  344. George Finizio (2009-09-29) #

    Wow not only amazing, but a very smart perspective...it's even more cool of course if it leads to success and not going broke smile...still sounds like a very smart angle to me.

  345. Pam Childs (2009-09-29) #

    Hi Derek,,
    Thanks so much for sharing that idea. I've used your ideas before and they have work great... especially taking pictures at the gigs... we now get on average 50,000 hits on our website a month. smile I will DEFINITLY try this out. Terry and I are alway into being VERY connected to our audience--this hopefully will increase our sells alot.
    Our last gig we sold around 10 cd's for 15 each. alot of times they throw the 20 and say keep the change. BUT, we really are proud of our work-- and we really would like for everyone to have a cd of ours-- so yes, i'll try this next gig on BEALE STREET.. that's where we sell the most cd's.. i'll update you with our sells to compare. THANKS, THANKS the great ideas, keep them coming.. i'm always trying to MAKE things happen.
    thanks for all you do,
    Pam Childs
    Pam and Terry
    "Bail Me Out"
    "Barefoot"
    "From The Heart"
    Memphis, Tenn.. smile

  346. Barbara (2009-09-30) #

    Hi Derek -

    Many thanks for your excellent idea. Makes total sense to me and I can't wait to try it at my next two gigs in November. Will report in.

    The idea really works for me because I believe that being a musician is a privilege - to have been freely given the passion, dedication (and maybe even talent!) to make music is something to be deeply grateful for and the results of which would ideally be shared generously with others.

    Sure, make money, but also have a "Public Benefit" approach, where you also make your music available to those who may not be able to afford full price.

    Derek - maybe the next blog you do could be advice on developing the skills for musicians to clearly and effectively sell themselves/their music (besides this great idea) and how else we can learn to connect with our audiences better. In this blog trail, these seemed to be repeating themes, and for me, I know it's the area of performance I feel least competent in..

    Thanks for all you do and all you're about.

  347. Frances DrostFrances Drost (2009-09-30) #

    Hey Derek,
    I tried it last night for the first time. 50% of the crowd got a CD as opposed to the regular average of 20%. Ended up with way more cash and came out to 6.81 per CD sold and 7.22 if you add in sales tax - which I did : )

    I think I might try this some more.
    Thanks so much!!!!!

  348. Suzanne LainsonSuzanne Lainson (2009-09-30) #

    Because comments don't always allow me to explore a topic in as much details as I would like, I've written my own blog post based on Derek's. I've pulled together some research on the pay-what-you-want model, if you all would like to check it out.

    http://brandsplusmusic.blogspot.com/2009/09/letting-fans-decide-what-to-pay-you.html

  349. Neal Fox (2009-10-01) #

    I'd be curious to know whether or not more people took the free option if you just left the CDs unattended with a sign and tip jar.

    Seems like more people would pay something, even a dollar, if a person was there handling the transaction.

    Any comments?

  350. Frances DrostFrances Drost (2009-10-01) #

    Well - since I have 4 CDs to sell and working on a 5th one, I can't possibly do all my songs in one concert, so I prefer to have someone at my table (if not me) to talk to the folks so they can decide which CD they want based on the 'moments' they experienced during the concert. Plus, I like that interaction with people afterward - but it might be true that you might not get as much if you just put out CDs and a tip jar.

  351. Matthew Tardy (2009-10-05) #

    We have tried this at a couple shows with a slight variation- We ask that the audience pay something, even if only a dollar. The response was amazing. We sold 4 times as many CDs. Our average selling price was half of what it would be, but that means we still made about twice as much profit. But the best part was interacting with fans after the show and NOT feeling like some sleezy salesman. We plan to experiment with this a lot more!

  352. Joanna (2009-10-06) #

    We tried it last weekend. We had our lovely ilya usherettes dressed like 1950's ice-cream sellers in cinemas. Wee silver trays strapped front of them full off CDs and a big cheesy heart shaped box in the middle with a slot so that people really could put in whatever they wanted. I said to the audience that what we would love more than anything would be for people that enjoyed our music to have our CD. We had poured our hearts and souls into making this album that it would mean so much to us. And that we were happy for people to donate what ever they felt they wanted to. And, that if they really had no money, we were more than happy for them to have a free album etc, etc. We had a great audience, it was a successful gig and during the encore the ilya usherettes went to work.
    The feedback from the girls was that it put people in a very embarrassing situation. It meant more deliberation with each person as they asked " well how much do you think I should put in" ... "what did the previous person give" etc. Maybe this is a very British reaction? But I realised that I too, would also feel quite awkward with this. Nobody wants to be seen to be giving too much or too little. (Even though I tried to eliminate that problem with a money box). It seemed that people wanted to know the price boundaries.
    I think just keeping them at a bargain price of £5 each (£3 cheaper than if you bought from our website or CDBaby) would mean the audience would feel they had a 'special' price and we would make a decent profit.
    Having said that it all depends on the kind of band and the kind of audience. We can make some very special limited edition cds and sell them for much more. But I liked the experiment ... we're always up for trying out new things :~)

  353. Hasina Stephens (2009-10-09) #

    So I tried this out last night at my gig and it was a success!! I ended up giving away only one CD for free and the average price paid for my CDs was $10! The best part was that I didn't have to "sell" the CD. People were coming up asking for a CD before I even began to pack up the gear! My question is should this be done all time and if so, how do I keep authentic? I really meant it when I told the audience that I wanted share this journey with them through my music but I don't want it to start sounding like a selling tactic. Any thoughts?

  354. Alessandro Buonpensiero (2009-10-12) #

    Credo che sia una idea nuova che andrebbe verificata e chissà forse potrebbe funzionare.

  355. Michael Tinsmon (2009-10-13) #

    We tried this out at our show a couple weeks ago and it was a great success.

    We're in the middle of recording a new CD and trying to raise money to complete it. We'd already broken even on our first CD last year, so we've been trying to sell the rest of them to finance the new one.

    When we released our first CD in 2007 we charged $10. Over time we'd tried reducing the price to $8 and then to $5 (once we'd broken even) and done the usual, "It's only $5" type of sales pitches.

    (Quick side note: I firmly believe CD's should never cost over $10 considering the cost of manufacturing and I think the continued ridiculous prices charged are part of what drive people to illegal downloads.)

    We sold an average of 3 or 4 CD's per show all summer at $5 per. At our show last month we kept telling people to please take a CD and give us whatever they felt was right or nothing at all, but please take a CD.

    We put them out on the front of the stage and people came up all night to throw some money down and take a CD. By the end of the night the stage had bills all over it. We were just telling people who needed change to take what they wanted.

    In the end we took in $112 for 15 CD's (approx. $7.50 per). So, we sold more CD's for more money. We are sold and will be doing this at all our shows from now on.

  356. Jonah Rank (2009-10-13) #

    So, I tried out a little variation on this.

    I should explain first that I'm still in college, and my college (it's a small program) had a coffee house for my program. I was performing at it and had a limited number of CDs with me but still wanted to try this experiment.

    I said that the first 5 CDs to be sold that evening would be free, and every CD after that was $5. In the end, I sold 5 CDs and made $0.

    I think that college kids in a small college don't bring money with them to these kinds of things though, and given all sorts of other factors: the experiment didn't go totally right, it seems...
    I think your emphasis was off. Never call the CDs free. Instead emphasize how much this CD means to you, and how much the audience means to you, and how important it is for everybody there to get a CD before they go. You could go on to say you usually sell them for $15, but it doesn't really matter to you whether they want to pay $100 or a handshake. The important thing is that everybody get one. -- Derek

  357. Danny NortonDanny Norton (2009-10-13) #

    We tried this approach over the last three gigs, one in a club and two at mixers/fundraisers we were invited to play.
    All I can say is 1) be sure people hear what you say about the album, ie: you're proud of it and it's more important that you have it than that we collect your cash, and 2) if they hear the announcement, they respond. After two comps, other takers were too proud to take the disc for free, but didn't have correct change, reflected on how much they enjoyed the show and the bidding war commenced. We sold three for $20 apiece and one for $8.
    We're definitely going to follow through with this strategy.

  358. Gregory (2009-10-13) #

    I think it would be good marketing strategy, particularly if you're able, out of the gate, to avoid a major financial lost. I think I'll employ this strategy. Thanks for sharing!

  359. David Weiss (2009-10-14) #

    What my band has done this year is make very simple, lo-fi, honest, intimate live recordings in our practice space. This works for us because we're mostly acoustic and our music lends itself to this. We burn about 4 or 5 songs from each practice onto 10 CD-Rs. We bring them to the next show and announce that if people like the music we're playing we have "demo" CDs and we'd like them to have our music. We ask them to leave a donation if they want or just take one if they don't have any money to contribute. We leave the CDs sitting in a box with a tip jar next to it by the front of the stage, self-service style. Without fail by the end of the night, every CD is always gone and there's usually between $40-$75 cash in the tip jar. $75 is actually MORE than we would make if we were selling the 10 CDs for $5 a piece.

    We're just getting ready to spend some serious bucks on a studio recording and so we're very interested further developing a strategy for getting our music out there.

    Really I think the hardest thing about selling CDs is first creating music that is so good that there's a demand for it. If you can do that it sure makes it easier to sell!

  360. Jake (2009-10-20) #

    I thought your article was an excellent example of the emerging direct-to-fan perspective. I took it an built upon it to attempt to reflect a more web-centric focus. Would love to know what you think. http://discuss.nimbit.com/?p=48
    Cool. I left a comment there. Thanks! -- Derek

  361. john dryden (2009-10-28) #

    Interesting 4 sure ..... if all the facts are accurate and there is no hype in Terry's statement ..... Carson Cole sold CDs for $5.00 ...... he said most buyers took 4 .... for friends etc. he sold over 20,000 .... independent ...
    ...........

  362. Rick Parnell (2009-11-20) #

    This just feels so right to me. I'm always so uncomfortable with the "sales" pitch, and feel genuinely disappointed when the connection goes no deeper and lasts no longer than the performance. I'm implementing this approach at my very next gig.

  363. Monique (2009-11-22) #

    Hi Derek,
    I saw you once write that you are a disciple of Seth Godin, me too.
    But I am also a disciple of you and try to be as courageous as
    possible, which is what is required, to put things that you suggest
    into action.
    I am currently on tour in New Zealand and am using the selling cd
    strategy that you suggested. I can't tell you how well it is working.
    There is an added reason. I am on tour promoting the charity album
    that I have produced so that is being sold at my gigs to support the
    charity. So it gave me the perfect testing ground to try out the
    strategy. I am up against my own album that I make no money for so
    selling my own cds at my gig would be even harder. But with the
    strategy you suggested I get applauded when I announce it. And most
    nights my cds are out selling the charity cd. And it adds the
    perception of my generosity. Its not that the generosity is a false
    perception, I have spent a majority of my year creating a charity
    album to try and make a difference to the horrific child abuse stats
    in my country.
    So I just wanted to say thanks for once again being so invaluable to
    my career. I hope one day in some way I could give back to you.
    best wishes,
    Monique

  364. Chris Nemec (2009-12-01) #

    Here's my two cents: I am a classically trained singer/pianist, and do shows that are more cabaret on style. My last two shows...first one in Memphis had 500+ people with with 127 CDs sold; my show last night in FL had 175 people with 53 CDs sold. The average price CD for both shows was $10. I'm grateful to have sold so many units in the past few days....and my big season has just begun!!

    Thanks for another great idea and words of wisdom. They are most appreciated.

  365. Joe Gould (2009-12-03) #

    Hey derek/commenting community -
    we've been trying this out ever since we first received word -
    the stats support the philosophy -
    we've been selling about twice as many of our EPs using this method.

    Usually we sell for $AU15, and in donations we've been averaging $AU9 - which is still enough profit to keep us in cheap beer, and since our main aim is to grow our fanbase, moving twice as many cds is terrific.

    As a side note, this approach works particularly well when playing in a new area, taking some of the gamble away from new potential fans.

    cheers
    joe
    the crooked fiddle band
    australia

  366. Marc (2009-12-06) #

    This is a slightly different universe, but there's a game developer who used this model for a week or so. The game, called World of Goo, is usually $20, but for he offered it for pay-what-you-want for that week. They ended up selling over 80,000 copies, for an average price of between 2 and 3 dollars.

    All the data is here:
    http://2dboy.com/2009/10/page/2/

  367. Stacey Dee (2009-12-11) #

    Hey Derek!
    I've been applying "the experiment" and loving the results!
    My cd sales have gone way up since I've done the "everyone gets on even if it's free!"
    I haven't kept great records of exact numbers but I would guess my sales are up at least 500%.
    I'm averaging $7-8/ cd which is great, especially when you look at how much my sales have gone up!
    Best thing is this is exactly what I was trying to do but your wording of it made it much clearer to me and to my audience so that the weird awkwardness of selling and being sold something and even the slightly guilty feeling of getting something free is gone!
    Love it!
    Thanks!
    You've helped me so much in so many ways with my music career through the years!
    I appreciate you and your great ideas!
    s

  368. iain (2010-04-17) #

    Many people have made comments regarding the value of a CD...


    Put your ear up against a CD and listen. Hear that? No?

    That's because CDs aren't music – You aren't just selling CDs.


    A physical CD may only cost a few dollars to make, but that isn't really the full cost of it. There are many other quantifiable expenses, plus the intangible costs of your personal time and energy. That may be where the cost of the CD lies, but it is not the true value of it.

    Just as music is in the mind of the listener, the full value of a CD is completely in the mind of the consumer.

    Here you have a way of presenting your CD to people in a way that helps them to understand the passion and hard work which went into it. You can give them a sense of how much meaning it has to you.


    Yes, there is a chance that people will all take a free copy, and you will lose money...

    -If you see this solely as a clever sales pitch then you probably shouldn't do it.

    -If you see it only as a trick to make more money, then you probably shouldn't do it.

    -If you see it as risky, then you probably shouldn't do it.

    - If it doesn't feel right to you, for whatever reason, then you probably shouldn't do it.


    If you are GENUINELY proud of your music, passionate about your CD, and really want to share it with the world, then there is no way that you can lose with this approach.


    Just as there are many intangible costs to making a CD, there are many intangible and worthwhile rewards.


    iain McLaughlin,
    Sunshine And Decay

  369. Joe Leonard (2010-04-25) #

    We do a free prize drawing at every show for a GUPPY EFFECT t-shirt or women's thong. It's very popular. We use gig pay to offset the cost of the free merch we giveaway. But we have found that non-winners often will BUY merch because, I think, psychologically they have geared themselves up to go home with a prize, and failing that they are willing to pay for it. Weird...it's like once they make the commitment of taking action (putting the raffle ticket with their name and e-mail in the jar), cognitive dissonance takes over. Even if non-winners don't buy merch, we still put their e-mail on our mailing list and then they are alerted to future shows where they have another chance to win. Cool huh? http://guppyeffect.bigcartel.com

  370. Kim Yarson (2010-05-10) #

    Finally got to use this technique at a women's retreat and I ended up making $580 for one hours worth of work which included payment for the gig, a donation for my second CD of $150, 37 CDs sold or given away and three t-shirts sold. It was amazing and I have never made so much money from my music in my life to date. I also used it in a songwriters in the round where I told the other writers about this technique and we all decided to use it. The crowd consisted of 15-20 folks at most and we sold collectively between three of us 13 CDs in all and a check for $3 each from a little old lady which I promptly mailed back with a thank you note.

    Keep the ideas coming and I'll keep trying to implement them.

    Kim Yarson

  371. Adam Mezza (2011-12-05) #

    Great idea and glad to hear that it's had some success for others. Another idea that seems to be getting good results for people is pledge music. My friends band is currently promoting their next album and so raised funds for 60% of their promo budget in a week. It jut goes to show that if the music is good, fans will go to great lengths to show their support.

  372. Adam (2012-03-09) #

    I love your article - great idea to make people think they are getting something for free! I've just started a new idea to help online promotion which is giving out membership cards for your web site. You can see an example on my Adam Hughes Jazz Trio site here - http://www.adamhughesjazztrio.co.uk. Keep up the good work!

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