Is your album a starting line or a finish line?
2008-09-13
People often asked, “How much does the average artist on CD Baby sell?”
Others would take the numbers on the “about” page and divide them: $85 million paid out to 250,000 available albums = $340 earnings per album. Now we know how much the “average” album sells!
Problem is: the numbers are right but the answer is wrong because it groups together two completely different types of approaches to an album release, giving an inaccurate average for your type.
For some artists, releasing an album is like the starting line in a race. The gun goes off! They work it! They spend hours a day pushing, promoting, selling, striving. For the next few months, they never stop. Reaching new people by any means necessary, whether playing live for strangers in strange venues many times a week, or joining new communities online.
For those types, I'd say the average income (through my one little store) was $5000. (And 50 of them earned over $100,000 each.)
But for many artists, releasing an album is like the finish line in a race. They've always wanted to make a record. They did it. It's done. They give some for free to friends and family, and glow in the compliments. They might do a record release concert and make a website, but in terms of effort spent, they're done. (Sometimes from satisfaction, but sometimes from entitlement: “Now that my brilliant album is done the world will recognize my genius!”)
For those types, I'd say the average income was $20.
The people who would ask about the average were usually artists trying to predict how well they would sell on CD Baby.
Because 50% of all sales on CD Baby were returning customers just browsing for new music, it was possible to sell a few albums without doing anything at all.
But the important thing is it's up to you which kind of approach you want to take.
Is your album a starting line or a finish line?
Wow,
this is the question. I did release my first "official" album this year, had a release party and a website... I'm planning to record an EP this fall, just to keep putting stuff out and "stay in the race".
Yet I didn't consistently promote the first album.
Anyways, it's feels good and necessary to keep regarding things as being possible - and to act in that spirit, of course ;)
That's what I love your blog for the most.
Thanks & Cheers,
Vanja
This may be your most important post ever.
Our society is so hooked on numbers (the game, the poll, the salary) that they make us feel better even when they have absolutely no context or meaning.
I hope this will be a wake up call for many artists.
Fran
Very interesting post. As a home studio owner/operator I see bands of all kinds, and it's interesting to see if they have the starting line and finish line approach.
My band sold about $150 per album, less than average, but we were really pushing our own web store.
A huge percentage of our CD Baby sales (around 80%) were not promoted at all. Now that I run a recording studio, I recommend CD Baby to all of my clients because of my experience with these CD Baby shoppers just looking for new music.
Spot on Derek. Most musicians I come across have no plans whatsoever for their CD release and how they'll use it to propel their career. For them it's the end goal.
Well done for sharing these insights.
- Kavit
I got a big kick outta your math breakdown -- have you read Taleb's book The Black Swan? It really messed my head up and forced me to rethink the assumptions and heuristics I've been using since I was taught probability.
I'm curious -- is there a published list of your top 50 sellers? I'm obviously asking because I'd be making them into a research project, so I'd understand if that's proprietary info.
I'll go check @ the CD Baby site, if you've already posted it there, ignore this and forgive my ign'ance.
Very Great Advice... its make me step back to think about what type of artist I am.
I don't perform any of my material live, so I have mostly a finish line approach once I've decided on the pieces to be included on an album.
Yet, I've recently realized how my further discovery can be helped when I sit down and really work on new ways to expose the existing songs and recordings to people.
good questions!
speaking of starting lines,
how's new web project coming?
could really use it right now....
managing my team is kicking me in behind!
I love this question! Anyone that finishes an album, a well crafted piece of work, deserves credit for finishing something. But that doesn't entitle one to make a living from it. It seems we earn the title of "working artist" when we use the tools of our art to get paid. As satisfying as it is to complete your disc, if we want to make a living solely as a musician, I don't think we can look at albums as anything but a starting line.
The rub in promotion is that it takes time and money. Time is most under-rated by most people. I think of the series "Rome" and Cicero is about to be executed. He is given a moment to contemplate and he looks to the sky, taking in all of its sweetness from the clouds and powder blue expanse. You don't need be near death to understand the value of time. Every minute is an opportunity in its self to squeeze the most out it. Which would be better, pitching people, pasting fliers, calling radio stations etc. or gradually building colossus of some musical construction? Tampering with the delicate lines of counterpoint or cold calling people, imploring that they purchase you wares?
Of course it is critical to take the CD much further after it is finished, sharing it is a monstrous piece of joy that no one should ever miss. So how about accumulating a lot of projects first and promoting them all at once? Then every dollar spent works on not one but maybe 15 CDs. Any energy that comes from media exposes a group of creations rather than just one. This will allow you to be very extravagant and overdo the promotion phase because so much is getting done due to this efficiency. What do you think?
I think it also has a lot to do with your demographics. I've been recording for years and though our sales on CD Baby are not very huge, I think that it has to do more with the fact that people in our audience over the age of 45 are still not buying a ton of music online. At every live show, I hand out a form and ask them where they buy music and/or if they buy any online. They are overwhelmingly NOT buying online yet. If they do, the name they are more familiar with is Amazon and iTunes. They don't remember or even know how to look in their spam boxes either....... Thank goodness for LIVE shows!!!
releasing my latest, my fourth ever but my first as a solo artist, I definitely had the above conversation with myself. I decided that the album would be an additional experience for the fan who decided to take a listen. So far I've had my best live sales at an outdoor show that happened at a park picnic pavilion. I didn't know anybody there but I made a lot of friends! And nothing I've ever done sounds like my new one.
love your guts everybody!
AEB
Good article, great insight! I did find myself thinking that it would be interesting to know what the median sales per CD is, i.e., where is the top of the bell curve?
My album on CD Baby is digital distribution only and I've not done a lot of promotion. CD Baby and the 20 digital vendors it has distributed my music to have not produced much as of yet.
Maybe this is a confirmation of the need for getting the word out, but I wonder if CD Baby folks are still more interested in physical CDs than MP3s?
I can say that most of my sales have been directly from my web site, which is due to online promotion at music forums I frequent.
For us the completion of an album is always a starting line. For our last release in April, we created a special website just for the album based on Mikhel Raud's ebook (which I would not recommend at this time) and linked it and our CD Baby/iTunes from everywhere - MySpace, Facebook, our main website, etc. We actively promote on MySpace, in our newsletter, and in person by handing out free professional sample CDs and fliers. We play about 4 - 5 live shows a month. But we've only sold three copies of our physical CD through CD Baby, as well as a smattering of digital distribution through iTunes. All three of those physical CD customers were people we knew personally or otherwise already knew about the band. We did sell one copy of our previous album to a complete stranger from the UK, which was cool. Maybe we just suck and no one will give us the hard truth?
On the other hand we typically sell an average of 1-2 CDs per show, even if there are only a couple of people who have never seen us before. The quality of the recordings are totally pro, and we spent upwards of $10k on the full production. There are people who record an album on the cheap as the finish line and sell more copies online to their friends than we sell period. There are seemingly two logical conclusions to draw from this - either we suck at music and are not making a product that most people would want to buy. Or we suck at marketing and despite actively promoting are failing to reach/convert new people. Or a combination of both.
I'm sure we will put out a few more CDs, but eventually the "starting line" album may become the "finish line" album if we can't sort it out.
Ouch! The truth hurts. My goal was to put out a finished product. I didn't have a dream beyond that horizon. Now I've released 2 CD's and am working on the 3rd while also learning how to build a fan-base.
My band just opened up for Jill Sobule at an extravagant, elegant house party in a beautiful, refurbished mansion on a hill over looking the NYC skyline.. We were paid well, treated like kings and appreciated. The future of the music business is patronage. The guy who hosted the party invested directly in the new Jill Sobule album and was given a private concert in exchange. These direct relationships with fans and artists will sidestep all the industry bs and create sustainable careers in niche markets that are cultivated carefully. Less and less artists will be all things to all people, but be something essential to smaller markets with more defined tastes..
Thanks for as always a great post and replying on my blog. As Steven wrote, the truth hurts, for my band it was the finish line but we all learnd a lesson, and you realy have to think about it and discuss it in the band.
A very thought-provoking question, Derek. I chose to release a CD for the purpose of sharing my compositions with whomever might enjoy them. I also considered the CD release as a way to "test the waters" from the creative side; and, to determine if the CD might actually generate enough sales revenue for reinvestment purposes. From what I've found, budget plays a key part in that "line" you've referenced.
This is so true. Even the Rolling Stones, the biggest rock band of all time, spends a year or two touring after each album release, endlessly promoting their work, because they know that's the only way to reach the most people and sell the most copies.
Releasing an album, publishing a book, starting a blog. These are all starting points. If you stop there, you're doomed to failure.
One small comment on the people that worried that their music "sucked" because of small sales. The music is what it is and if you think it is premiere then it is just that. There is an enormous mass of music being made on the earth today and people are being bombarded with it around the clock, on the radio, at the store, TV, the computer and a million other places. Everyday there are more than 200,000 cds produced. Just look at the enormous daily offering at cdbaby. So try to move merchandise but leave the judgment to your ears and not your inventory sheet.
I too believe it all matters what you put into it. I mean I had a very talented hip hop group I managed, and I gave them a lot of word of mouth publicity and all of a sudden people loved their music. Their motivation though was making an album, they didn't care about sales, shows or anything and I had to let them go. Talent means nothing in record sales, it just sets how long your success will last. Success is different per person, per genre, per etc. It all matters on your situation. With the group, last I heard they are still happy recording songs and working a day job, and I'm trying to break the day job curse so I can call music a career. That is my finish line, and I've already passed checkpoints getting a music and entertainment business degree. Now its all a matter of finding mentors and talent to work with. Great post silvers! One of the most important I've read in a long time, and I read industry blogs daily.
Good point. Good pep talk for the next album. But I'm confused, and tired! Am I supposed to be practicing and gigging my ass off to achieve musical nirvana, or chatting and promoting myself tirelessly? 'Cause I can't do both, and while I love the first, the second activity exhausts me. I'm going back to bed...
Yet another brilliant point that Derek makes! Once any artist releases an album, it is a great starting point and accomplishment. Those who want to sell cd's & downloads must attack many avenues of promotion. Just performing live may not do the trick anymore for most songwriters.
My albums, and I have released many, are at the line of continuum. I look at it this way: for at least 1 yr from my release, I consider an album to be new, so i never stop promoting it as such religiously to new and potential fans. In the meantime to keep current fans fresh, I continue to create and write new songs, new ideas, collaborations, contests etc.. There is no right or wrong in this business, you just have to try everything, but be smart about where you fit in and have no fear when it comes to taking chances. Playing it safe rarely works.
Those are my thoughts anyway
oh my god. that was the best and best-timed advice i've ever been given. thanks again derek! in response to alexa: i guess that's the downside of being an independent artist - yeah, you gotta jam out tunage AND promote it!
my comment:exposure, quality,
promotion of a song is the key
to success. my first top single
pick song from the 1980's called
'get into the love groove'was a billboard top single pick back in june 4, 1983 on page 64. and
'marcos took the money and run'
were good sellers without the
internet exposure. with all of this technolog which is new to me because i am coming out the analog era, i am learning. i have been good at word of mouth and street selling and some radio airplay. i am looking forward to have one of these songs pick up for movie.
Another great email from you Derek. Thanks for sharing you thoughts on being a independent artist!
One of my problems is I think Jen's music appeals to a slightly older crowd... the ones that don't go out to concerts all the time, and don't look at music blogs etc...
that was a good little article. Im still promoting my albums as hard as I can wile at the same time writing new material for another release (I have a side project aswell, which im getting together to release some material, so im very busy just now. I have noticed that over the last couple of months that my sales have nosedived though. I put it down to all this disinformation about a 'credit crunch' anyway, you can check out my stuff at
cdbaby.com/cd/machinima2 and over at myspace.com/hybridmachinima =)
Brilliant post Derek. It's like you have a crystal ball. It made me take a good hard look at my situation. All i saw was checkered flags...
I have a good online presence but someone else mentioned the huge glut of music on the market. I'm proud of my accomplishement and working on two more cd's...but they are not in genres that seem to be what sells most. At this point, my CD sales are stone cold dead but my digital distribution for a couple songs just keep on going along...word of mouth sales i would guess....mostly iTunes. I bet those folks you mentioned that made 100k all tour or play out regularly. Most my friends that gig regularly sell more cd's at gigs than at CDbaby by far. Selling from home takes alot of time and effort.
Is the crystal ball for sale?
Pinedog
Derek is completely right about two different kinds of releases. I'm kind of in between, - just keep recording and releasing as much music as I can ( I have no possibility to tour for couple of years). The times are changed, you can not keep promoting same album for two years or more unless you're not signed with Major, I think. Fans wannna hear new music, that's for sure. So, in my case probably the amount of music and high quality will matter.
A cute little analogy Derek; not entirely correct, but cute. After all, those who work themselves to death on their music (regardless of talent, political contacts ect.)still get ignored and make nothing. I would advise your readers to see the whole picture and to be realistic that not all dreams come true.
Well I must confess When I First dropped the album I had all intention
of being at the Starting Line but I never followed through with it.I just
recently after a couple years finally started to put ads out and giving my cdbaby url out to the public.I know is kinda way too late for this being that I'm about to drop my second album in a couple months.I'm pushing it now but the album is so old I can't find the motivation to be hyped about it.When I first signed up to cdbaby.com I was computer illiterate.That's around the same time I finally owned my own PC.I have had plenty of computer training since so I will be more than ready when my second album drops.I not giving up on my first Ima still pump it.Okay,that's it until next time..Lord bless and stay focused.
Its what we are we start to finish!
Our music needs audience we build that.
Our music can support us with P/MD/MK/LV/Cus
1.Promotions
2.Manufacture Distributio, digital,hard copy cd/dvd et..
3.Marketing,?
4. LLV {Live shows a MUST}
5. Cous {Customers}
POW Pay Of Work.
Its the start to build on the NEXT LP and the beats goes on.
WORK for it.
Your very smart D.
JPOPSOUL is on a roll.
WOW no finish line its a bread line.
There is a book called Marketing Product You.
The author states.
"All we have to sell is our uniqueness ".
A recording project to me is a beginning and a way to finance another artistic en devour.
How that is done is as challenging
if not more than the writing recording and performing.
It can be creative and fun.
It can also be overwhelming.
Personally I can't wait for a major label to discover me.
As artists we have more tools for marketing than ever before.
We just have to learn to use them and put a value on our creativity.
One of our major problems: We are musicians not business people. Beeing both is a hard thing to do.
This seems to be more of a comment on society in general, the WalMart culture perhaps. By that I mean peole seem to have been trained to accept less and less when it comes to quality, in anything.
Therefore, it really does not matter to them if the music is good or bad, if it happens to appeal to them. So, they will pay less, get less, enjoy it less, and never even realize it.
Most of you must admit, if you are over 25 or 30 that quality is not a priority anymore. How many homes built today will be around in 100 to 150 yers and be admired for their quality and construscton?
So what I think I am saying is tht a musicican you need, or must stick to your guns, turn out quality, believe in what you are doing, that is why you need to have quality, you know in your mind it is a good recording regardless of what it does commrcially, you can be proud of it anyplace you take it, or hear, and not be afraid toadmit it is yours.
Keep turning out quality. There is an old expression that "The cream always rises to the top", make sure you are the cream.
Thaks
Casey Dilworth
My release "Unexpected string" it is the first I publish & had distribution in stores as well & I later put on cdbaby
I had other release on major before
I will put more as soon as I see how much it works!
this cd contains also a DVD of live concert on New York television!
I would like an increase on digital sales as well!
This is good advice overall, but the numbers cannot be so cut and dry. I definitely take the starting line mentality: I usually release an album, promote daily for several months before starting another project. This time around I am promoting for at least a year. At least. I get great reviews in lots of national magazines (have even made a cover of a national mag), get sponsored for all kinds of nation-wide promotional opportunities, have extremely dedicated fans all over the world. Yet, despite the fact that I always push CDBaby as the primary place to buy my CD's, I sell very few. I've had tens of thousands of (free) downloads on popular blogs over the last few years, with tremendous fan response, but very very few CD sales (3 or 4 so far this year). I do better at iTunes, but not too much better. I'm now playing more shows than ever to make up for it. That's where the sales happen (and very recently I got some national chain distribution, we'll see how that helps). I don't know how bands are selling $5k worth online. I'd be extremely curious to know how old the average buyer is at CDBaby.
When I first became a song writer
I felt that eveything in my life would become better job wise, because, I get alot of discrimination from people,and, they are sometimes mean. The way I take it is I made a wonderful step in life of becoming somebody that eveyone can not do. I made a decision to put an album out into the world because, I want people to know Silver Ann Lee I am a beautiful woman, a strong woman, a friendly woman, and, I do not let people get to me to make my living of life that God gave me for them to decide what I should be. Because, they my be thinking one thing and, my mind is on something for success not distress.And, be a menice to society. I feel that I am doing great, and, my album will be the biggest hit go platnum, and, diamonds. However, my fans will no meand, will love my music.
We prefer to be called a baton-race on a circular track! We compose,create and produce an album and BAM! Its out there! We promote it for a bit and then ...let it simmer...mostly because we're hot on the trail of the next project! So we compose ,create and...okay you get the picture...BUT ! Here's where it becomes a baton race...Once the next album gets released it gets the same treatment as the first...once it goes to simmer mode,we gave the first one a re-look, a re-vamp and a rewrite AND a Re-Promote for a short time emphasizing the good points that are selling the album at that current time.Our third comes out next week and our fourth (Christmas)album next month. The Re-do and re-promote on the second has already been done a couple months back...once the third is officially out there...A bigger revamp will begin to "connect" ALL Three! The Christmas Album will be a collective compliment to all three...We're crazy here at MadMouse Records we would create and publish music even if we didn't make any money (Well...at least enough to put out the next is fine with us !) Okay..We've already started on our next project for our free page so we'll catch you all later! We have to go put on our running shoes,our track is getting bigger round!
BeatMaster Mike & BigDaddy L
GP-101 & MadMouse Records
For me every Album is like start a race!
Without the support of large media such as Radio and TV is hard and painful achieve the objectives!
Today, no one wants to work to earn money they want money to work like PROMOTERS AGENTS A&R AND LABELS!
Money, order on what we are obliged to listen!
Any bad sound with money reaches the success in a week!
A great talent without money sometimes takes centuries!
For you DEREK SIVERS o helps people without big money to achieve dreams A big hug!
Dj Full Visionary
http://www.djfullvisionary.page.tl
www.myspace.com/djfullvisionary
You know, I have been slowly getting it together to start marketing my new CD and sure it's taking a long time but I am cool with that. But people keep saying to me, so when you doing th next one, and I am like, I will be selling this one for the next year. What's the big hurry?
My first 3 releases on cdbaby were finish lines, but not by choice. I was very ill with kidney failure due to cystinosis, the rare genetic disorder with which I was born. Then in 2006 I received a kidney transplant , a new lease on life giving me the physical energy and renewed ambition. I found a new totally dedicated line up for my band and now all 7 of our releases are starting lines... almost. Finding legitimate booking still eludes us. We can book ourselves about 6 shows a year -- we'd really like a booking assistant or agency to boost that to about 18 or 20. We hired a startup but he did not have a clue what he was doing, so he gave us his venue database jn return for the fee we paid him, and we parted ways. We really do need someone to make all the phonecalls etc for us. We are in Philly and would like to split our gigs mostly between Philly and New York, and hit Baltimore, DC and New Jersey occasionally. If great opportunities send us further out, sure, bring 'em on. Our fanlist is slowly increasing, we always get a tremendously positive response when we play for punk and hipster indie type crowds. No huge increase in physical cd sales though -- so far.
Alan McCabe Band website= http://www.headflap.com label website= http://www.humaninhumanrecords.com blog= http://internetmusicmeanderings.blogspot.com
By the feedback I've been getting on my newly released project...I say it's a starting line. The more people are hearing and seeing it, the more people are becoming interested in it. A friend just got back from California...the LA area...and said they liked it a lot out that way, which is actually the style of music I make. So, it was good to hear that. We have set up for me to do some good promoting out that way and some shows as well. The one thing that catches the eye of my consumers is the way I have it packaged. Also, the way I present it to them. When I cross a new customer, I introduce myself as an artist, I inform them of my record label and production company, then I offere them a biz card along with my album. We speak for a minute til I inform them of my clothing line as well...so it all ties into people realizing who is serious about their career persuit of their music and this makes people want to support independent artists! WUUD w/2HoLLoTyp$ CEO, Balla Boytm Record$/YAVY WHYP Production$ Oklahoma City, OK
Hi Derek,
Thanks for the insight I respect your opinions and value them always. Interesting ? When I try to sell .....people buy my music ....who would have guessed ???
I figure 3 cds a day would boost my income from lower middle poor to middle of the line poor. Three a day at 30 days in the month...$900.00
thanks,
Al
Agree. Many of the artists that ask me to produce act as though it is the last record they're ever going to make. IT'S ONLY THE FIRST RECORD IF YOU ACTUALLY USE THE OPPORTUNITY!!
Ben Dowling - pianist, composer, producer, musical-director http://www.bendowling.com http://www.myspace.com/bendowling
Starting line, though not for a race, more like a marathon or even a series of tournaments: an "Opvs Imperivm Bellvm" or as the title of that Led Zeppelin song goes, an epic "Battle of Evermore"...
a starting line ,i need finance to press my physical cd's because retail stores want my album in the stores.my hit song is "kick da bass".
Starting line we need help
Hi how can i reach other people to buy my cds i have very little happening Bruce Come check me out on MySpace at http://www.myspace.com/brucegreaves
hey Derek, Well I'd like to be at the starting line, but time and work and health issues have really slowed me down. I getting better in the health department. but not everything else. I haven't had to time to truly promote my CD as I'd like to. I believe it will really bless those that hear it thou. So I'm kind of in between leaning toward the finish line, but wish I was at the starting line.
Calvin Moore
HI DERIC JS RECIEVCE UR EMAIL A BOUT START OR FINISH I WILL LIK TO SAY START/MEANIN LOWER THE PRICE BIGGER THE RETURNGREATER THE REVENUE CD BABY HAS DIFINETLY SCORE MY ATTENTION
EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Hi Derek My album is a starting line. You haven't heard the last of me. I have a lot of irons in the fire. Thanks for asking! Charlie Evans
Starting Line for us Derek. (in a long list of lines that was started) In the past 2 years since we released the first album under Inquisitor Betrayer (to CD Baby) "Space Elevator" , we have been very hard at work, promoting it, talking about it, joining new groups, finding new niches for it and generally pushing it. Just like I am now. Often I am told, your too aggressive, back off. But we all know, if we do not blow our own horn, how will be we be found?
Right now, two very major projects are coming to the point of placing them into CD Baby.
One, A collaboration effort of 22 fine Musicians from all over the world, known as "Childhood's End, A Tribute to Arthur C. Clarke". 25% of the net goes to the Arthur C. Clarke Foundation. A very major effort there since all of it was done over the internet (I have been working music for over 10 years using the internet). Two CD(s) worth of material, over 140 minutes of play time.
Two, Beowulf and Gilgamesh, a double CD from my band, Inquisitor Betrayer. Some of the tracks have already found some use in Film and TV. That was before any release of a CD(s). You can peek and hear at the youtube and myspace.
Three ... this is just a point. Do you think I think it is easy to get heard? Seen? Noticed? and any success yet? Answer from this end is no, it is hard, very hard and no (well not to the level I can walk away from my day job). A lot of material is out there that distracts. Of course, I think what I do is top notch. Why not? ;-) At the same time, it is a very humbling experience when you see others who are major influences on what you do, working as hard and harder as well. The costs of all this effort? It does not equal the costs made. If we take into account all the fans who have sent in wonderful reviews and comments, it is more than those spent. Price Less. Am I driven? Mad? Insane? hum, yes, perhaps, most likely. Helps in making the music. ;-)
dale
Inquisitor Betrayer http://community.ascap.com/dalekay CD "Space Elevator" Get it at http://cdbaby.com/cd/inquisitorbetrayer, http://www.inquisitorbetrayer.com , http://www.myspace.com/inquisitorbetrayer , http://www.musicforte.com/member/ib_staff
Excellent, as always!
Hey Derek, I think I'm doing alright for the money I've invested with getting your site going and all the other things I've invested in in regards to the whole album. I've had your site for about two years now & I'm now listed on Google with two songs from the album. I got two friend invites from people in Austrailia who have seen the videos on Myspace & Youtube. But again the biggest thing that would would put the whole thing ont full gear is to get a booker who would put me out on stage if only just in Nashville for starters. I think all the ones I've talked to still aren't interested because of my age & I'm not traditional country like what is out now. But I need someone wo give it a "Here's one month" or even one nighter in a "Sink or Swim" trial with a real open bar club as opposed to a Karaoke Bar. I'm different I know that but that is what is going to put me out in front of the croud unlike the usual T-shirt jeans country that's out now. But KISS was different than what was out and the Beatles were different from what was out when they started. I guess I just have to just keep the sites going and hope for the best. Thanks for your help. Michael
WOW! This really struck a nerve with me. I can see what I haven't been willing to do but what I must do in order to be successful. I was hoping there was an easier, softer way but there isn't. I thank you very much for your willingness to tell it like it is. The truth hurts but it was exactly the truth I needed to hear.
Deborah Hear and Pray
We are in that $20.00 bracket, we need help! Eddie Thomas
Thanks for your letter. We have already had this discussion. CD Baby is selling my CD for me. Very, very slowly. I cannot tour at the moment, as I am recuperating after heart treatment.
Love, Pops
Dear Derek, First when cd was made( "Experience of life") I made 3000 original copy's. I sold around 40 cd's through my friends who came to CD release party on May 3 2007. Since than I realize one thing "Does not matter how good cd is or bad it is, with out promotion it will not sell or hoping to sell them with 2 young child of mind was almost impossible. Top on that its not fair to just push to make a sail to people who never heard about this new music. To me it was like almost robbing them. Because they do not know what is about. Meanwhile it wasn't fair for me to just hand over the cd for free. But One had to give up for others so I make a step back ward and let music itself grow their reputation. Since last year May I have given away 1570 promotion cd's( "Experience of life" cd has been touched many peoples heart). Over 130 taxi driver here in Ottawa have them and lot of them are my friends. I went for local radio station 89.1 CHUO and interviewed 7 times. Now "Experience of life" cd's are almost every where here in Canada. "Montreal, Nova Scotia, Van Couver... Local musician played two of music from the cd in New York 2 times, tow different artists. Now I get to realize even more that it's impossible to reach out to the listeners in this way. I have always known that with out proper promotion, it will not get to listners. I wrote music video treatment and looking for right time to share through "You tube" and TV. I been spending all of my times and money to reach out to people as best as I can(now I am seriously brock and can even pay for my rent). Mayer, Mp's, Socan, New York times, Opera Winfrey, April Wine, 360 Anderson cooper... I tried my best, even if they do not pay attention! I did not try to make a music to make me famous or driven by my own desire. It found me. I never learn about music. I have never dreampt of become a musician. I was just happen to be one. How many time I try to check out from promoting the music? Please do not ask me. But for some irony reason, I was on that path again. Now I've met ex CNN, BBC cameramen "Peter Williams" from Van Couver and he become a promoter for "Experience of life". You can go to www.peterwilliams.ca to see who he is. Very honest man now work as Pole cam camera company as CEO. 18 years of experience as cameraman had to be here in Ottawa for TV shooting for 30 days. I got introduced to him through my friend in Ottawa. Now we became very very good friends and he introduce music to lot of his friends. I understand one thing in life. There's no me with out you. There's no you with out me. We can only make through this life by helping each-other. I value and cherish good friendship in life. Like I mention to testimony on CD Baby, with out you CD baby I'm not here today. You are the motivater for many,many musicians out there and me. Thank you for your concern and motivation, your friendship. Thank you for your attention. Although its not easy journey, but I will do my best. I have not chosen this and it chosen me and now I know it's my life time carrier. That's all. Have a nice day Derek, and CD Baby staffs. Sincerely, your friend Emily Eunjue Hayes
my album is a starting line!!!! Fredrik
by the way check out the frsh video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFvAEdxN1i0
For anyone reading this article I would appropriately title it, "REALITY CHECK." I don't know about anyone else, but I could definitely use at least 3 of them a day. 1 for breakfast, lunch and dinner. My problem is letting "Life" get in the way.
One of my problems is I think Jen's music appeals to a slightly older crowd... the ones that don't go out to concerts all the time, and don't look at music blogs etc...
I have not made the Big sales on C.D. Baby but it has offered me some great ideas from The Start . Our C.D. Then and Now Robbin McCombs Featuring The Story of HIRAM our song about Hank Williams Sr. and we are from his hometown , Robbin lived with me in Hank's boyhood home when he wrote the song .
We recorded this in Nashville with Don Helms Hank's original steel player playing his original steel that he used with Hank onthe road .
Don Helms passed away recently he was a musical icon . I have pushed the C.D. heavily the last few weeks . You may say Big Deal ! BUT listen to this . I have a lady's group that puts out a yearly book about Hank Sr. they are trying to decide if they want to add The Story of Hiram this year as a fundraiser .
I have also had someone contact me for The Story of Hiram possibly to be added into a T.V. Documentary about Hank Sr. & his Wife in the near future .
I contacted another store that is considering to place the C.D. into their 500 Stores . So please tell every musician out there YES Do Not Just put out your product put it out in front of as many people as possible and to use any and every means to get your music out to the buying public .
I use tactics to do this and I feel that I have had moderate sucess in 8 years BUT NOW I FEEL THAT I HAVE ONLY SCRATCHED THE SURFACE and I am thinking of even putting out a book including The Story of Hiram because I was the person that placed Hank's Boyhood home on Alabama's Historical Register and turned it into a museum here .
Lots of exciting things happening and a bright future ahead . Thank You
Howard Lofton Georgiana ,Alabama Hank's hometown LoMac Records
Hi Derek, I'm sure our Album, "Silent Steps Outside", is a starting line album!! Help us! ;D G. Lipford
Hello Derek, Starting line... The concept behind all of my work is visual. All projects are... The starting line! Thanks Chris
You know, I think an important factor in the 'starting line or finishing line' question is, what level of expertise does the person have at marketing themselves? Do they have helpers, or an organization? As a producer and musician, I know that finishing the project is within my skill set. I have also been a radio music director, and run a marketing business-- but find I don't feel comfortable selling myself. I need someone else to do it. To keep with a race analogy-- I need someone to pass the baton to, so they can run the next leg of the race. But I've spent all my money on the recording! What do I do now??? James Evans (latest project: "Sleight of Hand" by Ten of Clubs)
Hi Derek: I am definitely at the starting line. I believe in doing each thing I do the best I can do with what I have before moving on. One sort of problem with that is when to be satisfied enough to move on. I have just done one more careful remix, and I am finished re-packaging. So beginning within the next two weeks I will devote every possible moment to getting work, promoting, and distribution. I absolutely believe in devotion and hard work or whatever it takes to get the job done, but first I must believe in the product that I am selling. So, just to feel a little more confident I will show my material to the young and elderly , and anyone that digs my type of music especially my professional peers. I do feel ready, and I won't change anything unless I receive the same comment because I first trust my own judgement.
I'm at the starting line, and I am excited about it as I know I must be to follow through. Thank you Derek for your kind consideration. You are a tremendous help to me and many,many others because of MY SPACE, and beyond.
Very best Regards James Whitney
I really like your company
Dear Derek,
This is Jean Snyder. Perhaps you remember I have had CDs with you...Quiet Time, Pure Outlook, and others. We presently have a company called "BLUE CHAIR WORLD.com" and Anna Moo has told us that you are the best people to sell our CDs. I am glad, therefore, that you wrote to me. We have our website and the idea is to have the CDs presented on the website with clips...that you can hear...then, to order, CD BABY would do the job. We have some big conferences coming up so I am thinking we want to consider this soon.
Thanks for writing.
Jean Snyder Composer
In my opinion, an album should most definitely be the starting line of a new chapter in the life of an artist. It is the one product in which the next year's tour, merchandise, marketing, radio, and promotions will be based off of. It is the story of where the band has been, and where it is currently showing growth and maturity.
-Jeremy Willet
http://www.willetonline.com/
For me, my first project was in the second category. I made a lot of marketing errors before "Down to the Village" ever got to CD Baby. I have made note a all of the fabulous information I have now received from Derek and others and have begun to plan the next recording project. When I do, I will plan to be in the first category - and then perhaps folks will get so interested in the prior release that I'll have to reprint!
Jim Crozier http://jimcrozier.com http://myspace.com/thejimcrozierband http://cdbaby.com/cd/jimcrozier
It is the starting line.
Thanks, John
www.myspace.com/johnpenabass1
That's freeking great advice, Derek - THANK YOU!!!
I even put my cd on Craigs list, and I sold 8! Just 8. Maybe it's not good enough, as I'm creating a solo piano cd. I teach music to kids, and the parents don't even want it, cuz they don't have enough money. They can download the songs from cdbaby, or they don't agree with the styles. Not to be pessimistic but, I'm still tryin', and no luck.
Hi Derek,
Great points you are making in this email. I have thought for many years that without touring, I would not sell a single CD; alas I was wrong (sort of). That said, most of my touring musician friends sell more CD's in one night at various bar gigs than I do in any given year on the net. It's cool to see all their fans crowding around to grab up the last CD the band has available that night.
I have shared sales data with several bands I know around the country (USA). Most of them use table tents to gather email, physical addresses, and phone numbers of CD purchasers for their data bases. This leads me to believe that Mr.Budweiser is a pretty viable sales guy. LOL!
I promote my work mostly on the internet, zero budget with some mixed results.
I'm thinking the majority of CDbaby's are in similar circumstances. I wanted to thank you for 10 years of music lessons. I learned a great deal about music, life, business more importantly; people. I hope you are on a sandy beach some where, laptop and umbrella drink in hand my friend, because you have surely earned it.
Peace,
Jimmy Stuckey/J.T.RED
Thats so true,Right now are album is doing alrights but I would love to see it sell maybe like 2,000 copies in one year of your website.Right now we are sitting at 92 sells since it was released in late april 2008.Most of the sells have come some radom people,then 12 copies were from our myspace fans.Right now were still tring to promote as much as we can, and come up with new fresh ideas,I believe we will reach that 2,000 mark if we keep promoting
Hey Derek! Thank you for the motivation!
I have the perfect song to echo your words: "It's up to You" ...that's actually the name of the song too!
It's going to be on my new album that I"m about to release in the next month....
-LarissaNess www.LarissaNess.com www.MySpace.com/LarissaMusic
Hey Derek, thanks for the e-mail, yes I agree, it takes sweat and tears to sell records .. AFTER it is completed. ..and marketing, talking, networking..doing whatever it takes- kind-of-attitude is the only way to sell. Just waiting for someone to buy doesn't work. My favorite notion is : ACTION creates RE-ACTION ... (positive I hope) Thanks again Peace Lea Longo www.lealongo.com
I've never heard it put so clearly. Thank you. I need to get off my butt and do more promoting!
vicki
Step into Your Greatness with Vicki Hannah Lein www.stepintoyourgreatness.us
Hi Derek:
This is a great little article. What a good way to think about it! I have a new CD coming out and I am oh so far from the finish line! Thanks for the great advice!!!
Sincerely, Liza Lee
Just wanted to thank you and say that this article was great I wish you the very best , you and your heart are truly a gift to world
Sincerely Lloyd Gregory
HELLO MR DEREK SIVERS .. OK IT'S REALITY SOME MUSICIANS MAKE CDS TO PLEASE THAM SELF ...US I MEAN YOU AND MY POEPLE KNEW LUKO ADJAFFI HAD TALENT AND A MESSAGE SO MY OWN LABEL MERVILTON RECORDS AND THE HELP OF CD BABY GOT NOTICE WITH THE MAJOR ... I LUKO ADJAFFI TOOK MUSIC MY CARRER VERY TOP PRIORITY IN MY JOURNEY HERE ON THIS PLANET ..THANK YOU CDBABY ...LUKO ADJAFFI WWW.LUKOADJAFFI.COM
ONE MORE THING FROM BEING AN INDIE TO A MAJOR ARTIST THE OPPORTUNITIES ARE SKY IS THE LIMITE ...TOO ME CDBABY AND MY PUBLICIST PUT ME ON THE MAP ...WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT MY LABEL WE;LL STAY WITH YOU FOR EVER ..LUKO ADJAFFI WWW.LUKOADJAFFI.COM
Hey Derek! Just getting into the starting blocks, no where near the finish line...
Michael
I am at the startting line! So where to go and what more to do?!
Great question! and encouragement for all of us who are continually hustling their project.... Thanks!
Mooki >> Justpassingthru
-- Mooki (the artist formerly known as Mike) » Justpassingthru » » http://www.new.facebook.com/pages/Justpassingthru/9550071625 » Facebook » http://www.ilike.com/artist/Justpassingthru » iLike » http://reverbnation.com/justpassingthru » Join e-list for a FREE song Download » http://myspace.com/justpassingthru » MySpace » http://justpassingthru.net » Official Web Site » http://indieheaven.com/artists/justpassingthru » IndieHeaven
This is absolute correct. Like everything else to be successful you have to work at it. I'm working on my 20 CD release right now and I can say without a doubt other than the first 3 (which were tapes back then) the 16 after have all been “finish line” for me. I did do promotion and performing and I did make some money.
What I was finding was that all that promotion and performing was taking away for the creative process. I had less time to write and work on my new songs and although I did enjoy the performing I did not like the promoting. In fact the promoting/performing made me so busy that my music was suffering and the whole process had got me to the point that I wanted to quit altogether.
So I sat down one day and thought - What's the real reason why I make music.
Is it to become famous?
Is it to make money?
Is it to be discovered?
nope, nope, nope
Don't get me wrong all those things would be nice, but none of those were the real reason.
The real reason was because I love making music. So that's what I have concentrated on and it has been fantastic!!! What I found out after a 2 or 3 years of taking this approach was that I was much happier and began to realize this is what I wanted all along, to make music. Somehow I had listen to people tell me what I should do with my music and what I had to do to be able to call myself a success and that definition of success became my goal and it came very close to causing me to give up music forever. I have no regents for choosing this path nor do I think it's wrong to do it any other way. Music is a wonderful thing and everyone should have there own approach to it. This is what work for me and I know I'll continue to make music for as long as it's physically possible. You can call me "the most prolific unknown songwriter/singer in Canada" and I'm fine and every happy with that. Just don't tell anyone... Cheers
In reference to your statement:
"For those types, I'd say the average income (through my one little store) was $5000. (And 50 of them earned over $100,000 each.)"
How long did that take? My CD came out on June 13th. Shortly there after I got it over to CD Baby. I'm one of those, "the gun goes off" people. I promote this CD non-stop everyday.... I get discouraged though, but I keep trying to remind myself it's been only 3 months. Do you know of a time-frame when stuff really starts happening?
Thanks Derek for what you have done for new artist!!!
Nick www.NickLongoMusic.com
DEREK you recently sent me a check for cds sold on a small scale im not computer savy but have money to invest in ads what is your easiest and best staight forward method of getting people to my style f music not playing out thanks
christian
Thanks for the info.I guess it's better late than never,is something bothering you.
Hi Derek,
I hope that things go well with you, young Skywalker. This was a timely, gentle, but sobering, almost magical kick in the pants.
Recovering from a small fire in the studio. I am, however, slowly writing a batch of songs more becoming an old road dog like me. Not safer. Just better. Brushing up on software and the attendant learning curve ( can't afford the Neve, Ampex machines etc. I was used to in the old days). Now that I have a stable rig, and digital editing is a great thing, I am ready to concentrate less on the I T and more on the music and a subsequent marketing plan. Any advice you've come across that would help a Dad with a day gig schedule some limited touring? After all these years both on and off the music scene I hope I can finally accomplish enough to merit being one of your demi-sages that helps those aspiring.
I have never written you before, but it did not seem right to neglect thanking you for this and the wonderful company you just married off. I feel like I know you. Maybe it is just that we chewed some of the same tour dirt or it could be that your principles and caring shine through your public endeavors.
Cheers,
Gregg Outlaw
Thanks Derek! Mine's a starting line. I got a little false start out of the blocks, but it's definitely not too late to begin the race. Pete Surdoval
Amen Brother! Now that my "New Girl" EP is finished, I'm just starting to see the abundance of opportunities that exist to connect with others through my music. I was just thinking about that this morning-the fact that it's a beginning vs. an end-and I was really glad I did the 5-song EP as a kind of dress rehearsal marketing-wise for the full album that's still to come!
And on a side note, as an independent musician, one can get quiet consumed with oneself doing just what Derek said: "spending hours a day pushing, promoting, selling, striving.etc.". After years of going after what's "out there for me."
I recently paused and said "Hey, wait a minute. For a long time, I've been asking a lot of people to do a lot of things for me: 'Play my record, take my picture, do my graphics, by my CD, book my band. please!!...'"
I decided it was due time to return the karmic favor by offering help-whether with publicity or setting up a MySpace, etc., even dog-sitting!-for friends and/or fellow musicians, on behalf of those who have been kind enough to lend me a hand through the years. It feels good. And I'm OFF!
Thank YOU Derek for keeping us in the opportunity loop and for giving us much-needed reminders of our potential.
Sincerely,
Rebecca Sayre http://www.myspace.com/rebeccasayre http://www.rebeccasayre.com
Hi Derek,
For sure ... the new album "Reflections" is a starting line ... but a step to the finish line ;-)
Cheers,
Rick
This is a nice, sensible 'E'ditorial Mr. D. I love it when anyone uses the word 'entitlement' due to I think this is a caucasoidal epidemic in so many areas of our society.
JH
Hey Derek ...thanks for the blog post message
This describes me pretty good...about being at the finish line... although I have made more than 20 bucks from CDBaby.
I know I have a good product.. .most people like my CD and it's not going to wear out soon....
It has some classic back up on it.... .However you are right about the wrong.....thinking.
That is where the thanks comes in....I downloaded your pdf on "How to call attention to your music" That is a super document thanks so much... I got it at www.sivers.org Endless good ideas
Keep up the great work... and I will be letting others know about it too...
Take Care Ron www.cdbaby.com/ronparks
Hi Derek
Just letting you know im going the big push now with my album.Im at the starting line..(see below).
My 6 week U.S college campaign has begun and ive charted at number 22 on M3 Radio’s Top 30 chart in New York City. Also have had a great deal of adds come in from all over including stations such as WPPJ (Pittsburgh, PA), CJSR (Edmonton, AL), WSYC (Shippensburg, PA), and WDBK (Blackwood, NJ). This week alone, 32 stations have made the record available for airplay and a several still have the record out for review!
I will also be played on the No.! Satellite radio satation in the U.S "XM radio" 18/9 at 10pmU.S Eastern time) on a show called "The Radar Report".
My U.K campaign begins in two weeks.
Cheers. Ross.
"If you build it they will come" - certainly does NOT apply here! I think this defines the entire internet as a whole. Most of our sales come directly from social networks and magazine album reviews. I spend on average about an hour or two a day promoting, building our name. Thanks for your insight Derek!
Best,
Ryan Chilcote Forever Mourning http://myspace.com/forevermourning
www.webstudio247.com www.ryanchilcote.com www.forevermourning.com
Yes I agree with your article.That's exactly what happened to my cd's,i dont know really know how to promote it without going broke ..sam
Hi Derek; Our Last record doubled it's predecessor sold $500 so far and an actress is using 1 of our songs to fan dance to on MTV's MADE show. Burlesque is big and we're doin' it !
What do you suggest we do to exploit this event (MTV)?
All the Love.
Scat
thanks for the reminder Derek, my third record is almost finished and since I'm still selling my last two on cdbaby all over the world, my new record will be really fun to promote...not to mention that's its by far my best yet!!!!
love, courtney
Hi Derek, Thank you for assisting the Independent artist, in his/her plight to generate attention and recognition, by exposing their creative and original music to the general public. Without you, none of this would have ever transpired. Most assuredly, it has been a mutually beneficial ordeal, all in all. I also wish you further success, since you are definately a pioneer in this field and one of the few success stories in existence today, when most others have failed at such a venture. We shall have approximately an album of material per month, available for submission to your firm. Kindly accept my sincerest regards. Stay well. Staten Island Johnny ATRAX music co.
Hey Mr. Sivers, This is a great blog....but then again I'm a devout Sivers fan...I can't express how much I appreciate what you've done for us indies...that said...I have 2 CDs on CDBABY. I put them both on in March of this year, doing the digital thing too and I've earned close to $100 for both cds combined. I'm hustling...sold somewhere between 450 to 500 CDs in face to face situations, but can't get folks to buy on line. We sell more cds after performances than anything. Question #1- Approximately how long does it take before cds start selling on the Baby
#2-When are you going to start the next company....gigbaby???? LOL There is no one in this business I would trust more than you at this point. I've put out an add on Craigs list for booking agents and I have a few bites, but waiting to see what you come through with. Meanwhile, keep yourself safe, keep rockin' JaVonne Armstrong, Stoney Mae
Finish line.
Starting line! Starting line!
Thanks again, Derek
starting line
my cd is a starting point,working on new cd now!!! keep in touch. ill be slow in returning messages but i will get back to you.!!!
This is the point. You sent me an offer to be one of the six people for coaching. Thank you! You had us submit a reason why we should be the candidate.
Many of us are totally willing to spend time and resources making sure people know we exist.
The question is doing what.
I feel flooded with internet sights, you-tube, myspace, song contests, TAXI, song pluggers, lists of indie radio stations, promoters, news-paper ad opportunities, promotional and paid performances, producers looking for songs, the "Fox Pool" TV back ground music, advertising etc. etc.
I want CD Baby to be the starting line but I'm not sure how to proceed in a systmatic way and not just randomly spin my wheels. (like I have been!)
Thanks for all you do.
Wayne Richards Southern Nights http://myspace.com/waynerichardssouthernnights
Thanks a million for that question. I needed that!!!!!!
Hi Derek,
Mark Wayne Glasmire here. Thanks for the email. They always seem to come at the right time for me.
I am at the "starting line". I am currently working on a new project that will be completed by the end of January. This will be my 5th project. Two of my most recent projects are available on CDBaby. They have done just ok regarding sales, at least on-line. Like most artists, I sell quite a few at live shows.
I am an older artist that is trying to find a way to seperate myself from the crowd, without being a "novelty act". My target market is the "baby-boomers". The "industry" would tell you that they don't buy records. My opinion is that they don't because there is nothing mainstream that interests them. Being a card carrying member, of this group, I believe that it is an underserved market. The "Dallas Morning News" recently did a feature article on me with a tag line that read "Music For Grown-ups". Mario Tarradel wrote the article and ran it the day of a show I had. As a result, the show was packed with people over the age of 35. This one article proved to me that the baby-boomers will come out and support and buy product if they know it is there.
As mentioned, I am trying to find a way, with limited resources, to find a way to let people know that there is music out there that they would like and can relate to. Any help you might provide would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark Wayne Glasmire
PS: Thanks for all that you have done with CDBaby! You are a living example of the "American Dream". I met you at the Americana Music Conference, in Nashville, a few years ago. I thanked you then and you seemed shocked that anyone would give you a compliment rather then a complaint.
Derek thanks for the information what is the best thing to do to get some big sales
thanks
larry dane
Beloved Derek or bed many times your councils but not creed that is easy to catch up the succeeded one and not creed that there are councils useful to make to sell a cd. All he depends on the economic possibilities that there are on hand in order to promote an artist. Not there are miracles, but only expensive promotions. All the good will of the artist will not never open it the doors of the average - radio Tv newspapers etc.etc. - in order to open those doors they want only the moneies to us. If I had had many moneies I would have made a cd but me I would have gone some to Cuba.
I embrace
Ales....Sandro.....Buon......
Pensiero
Derek, hi, you get so many emails you may never even get a chance to read this one & although I am probably closer to the latter group ($20, if I'm lucky, ha-ha)
I still have to say that CD Baby is the best thing that ever happened. You can't beat the price & it is up to how much effort the artist puts into it. I can't thank you enough for starting it. It's always a nice little surprise when I check & find that somebody has downloaded one of my songs. It's like a great feeling to know that somewhere in the world someone I don't even know is enjoying something that I created just because I love to do it.
There is no pleasure greater.
Thanks
Derek I fell on the finish line effort only because I had a full time job and my responsibilities were huge.
I sold the majority of my cds at work and at live shows when I did perform. I perform very little prior to 2006. From 2007 til date I perform mostly at senior communities. The other performances in coffee houses enabled me to sell more cds at the show.
Most of my cds on CDBABY were sold from word of mouth and customers of CDBABY. I did not make the money I would like to have made on CDBABY.
I still tell people where the music can be found. So, even though I am at the finish line that was not by choice.
I have more shows at the senior communities, so when I sell a cd it's with a person that work at the community. All of my cds have sold now that I work at full time as a entertainer.
After saying all of the above I left the finish line, but my pace is slower than most musicians. I am doing more of a fast walk.
Thanks I look forward to the next e-mail. Paula
The BIGGEST problem I've found is when a project is considered the starting line for some members of the group, and the finishing line for others.
The starting line members end up doing all of the promotion, leg work, financing, networking and interaction with reviewers etc., while the rest just come along for the ride.
Kind of a reminder of the "When is it time to quit your band?" discussion.
Darrell
Da Phatfunk Clique - Funky jazz violin to elevate the mood
www.phatfunk.com
www.myspace.com/phatfunk
Hi Derek,
Thanks for the mail.
Sadly, producing the CD is the easy part. The work of marketing, promoting, advertising and selling the CD is where all the hard work is. I've got a radio ad campaign going for which I spent dollars and hours to produce the spots and buy air time. I'm going to try a TV ad next because what I'm pushing now is a 2 disc set DVD and CD. I think the DVD is the strongest selling point. I met a marketing man who believes in my project and is producing the spot for TV for me for Free. It's more difficult now to promote in my home town than it was when I released my first CD in 1997.
In 1997 a new radio station opened up in the black neighborhood. they devoted all Sunday morning to gospel, and the rest of Sunday to Jazz. The owner gave me 100 spots for $150. The mainline record store with 5 stores took my CD on consignment as did one store in the "Hood". The little store in the "Hood" sold 500 copies. The main stream store sold 150. The other 350 were sold in Miami, New Orleans, Memphis, Grambling, LA., Texarkana, Boulder, Co. and Champaign, Il. The 7 cities out side of my area all had college campuses with radio stations which featured Jazz, several days a week.
It didn't hurt that Preston Love, a sax man who played with Basie and was editor of the Neighborhood newspaper gave me a full page glowing review in the paper, and Genovese had played in Preston's band in the 40's and 50's. So Preston dug my music and Genovese's playing. The main stream paper's Jazz critic also gave me a nice review, and I received 2 unsolicited reviews from lesser known city weeklies.
Unfortunealy all of the above is changed. Preston passed away 2 years ago. My new project is not all jazz, The mainstream Jazz critic retired. The New radio station failed because he did not get advertising support from the business community. College radio stations I don't think will give me air time with 10 genres of music on one CD so I am planning a new strategy.
In addition to hooking up with the marketing man, (who by the way I am helping him with critique and production ideas on his first musical project), I have met with a consultant who specializes in Intellectual properties. I have written 2 books, self published one, written a script for a radio show, which she told me was a great way to open a market. I can have my record company sponsor my Auto Advisor radio program, thus promoting all my intellectual properties, Music, Books, Newsletter, and How To DVDs, for $500 for a 1/2 hour radio show on the number one station in town. $500 for 30 minutes on #1 is way better that $720 for 24 minutes on about the # 4 station. My consultant said that a lot of "Paid " radio shows generate enough interest that sponsors come to them, once established.
Again thanks for your letter and all the great things you do for Indie music people.
Tom Tomoser Lone Eagle Records
hey derek, thanks for the inspiring message.
what would you say is the best ways to market your cd's on the internet? i am willing to do whatever it takes but i myself am running out of ideas. anything would help.
stuck like chuck
tim carroll
The album is niether a starting line nor a finish line...
For some artists music has been the ultimate goal since they were self-aware. The album is niether the starting line nor the finish line, only a small step along the way.
For example, Hudson K released Safety Line in the first year she was writing and performing live. Since the release she has toured relentlessly all over the southeast with her new band. Hudson K will sell albums at every show, but has less success with online sales. This is because the fans have expressed excitement over the live shows, but dissapointment in the fact that the album is so different.
With an ultimate goal of getting people to the shows, Hudson K has begun packaging a free live disc with the album in order to back sales at shows.
The ULTIMATE goal is to record a new album in 2009 and aggressively market the old with the new in order to illlustrate the versatlity AND evolution of the group. So it becomes part of the process of development for the artist.
And ultimately-there will NEVER BE A FINISH LINE!
Hi Derek
I read your e-mail blog and wanted to comment on just how accurate it is.
I fit perfectly into the "Finish Line" category, even to the amount of sales being $20.00 ,and my CD has been out for a little over a year. I've never done an "Album Release Concert" mostly because it would be just too costly for me (I paid the musicians well for the sessions, they are top notch players, and, like me, all working steady) and scheduling all those players would be nearly impossible (excuses excuses) but you are right on the money about it being "I'm done with that".
I spent the last year paying off the manufacturing cost, and now I'm done with that too, and aiming at the next project.
You see, the group I have worked with the longest, and that falls into the category "Starting Line" Is the Irish folk group "Colcannon" and we have released 7 CDs, and promoted them ourselves, so I have an understanding of what I could or should be doing, but put most of my energy into live performing, which is how I make a living. Colcannon is an existing touring group and generally we are paid and treated like professionals, and most of our sales are at concerts, so pushing new releases is kind of built into the business.
I've been able to sell my CD at Colcannon concerts even though it is very different, because our fans have heard other music that I have written, liked it, and are willing to take a chance on something different, and in some cases they already have all our other albums.
So you see, for me, my CD was a side project, and therefore I haven't put a lot of money and or energy into promoting it, and though I'm slightly embarrassed to admit it, you are also right on the money about basking in the compliments of the friends who I have given free CDs.
So thanks for your insights, I'm thinking, maybe the next side project should be a trio, and therefore more economically feasible for live performance.
Thanks again for everything you do.
Mike Fitzmaurice
This is very interesting, this analysis. For me, as you may know, I do a little of both..
But what's interesting is that for most great artists of the last golden age, (you know the 60s and 70s when music would not only sell a lot but used to actually change the world -- neither these things happen anymore), those artists: john lennon, jimi, jim, janis, etc... the album would definitely be the finishing line reflecting the era, the personal era, also the macrocosmic era it was written and recorded in, because the art, the expression, you felt at that particular moment in time is OVER...
music came out quickly then, very soon after it was written...
a very important ingredient in a successful record because the cosmos have everything to do with real music..
not everyone knew that felix from the rascals wrote People Got To Be Free for bobby kennedy, but they KNEW... because it was released very quickly, so they knew on a subconscious level.
someone who goes to a songwriting class, does a record, then spends every waking hour promoting it, will never sell a lot of copies, AND make an impression because that is not a REAL ARTIST.. you are chosen as a vehicle, by an energy (be it god or the devil or somewhere in between)
you really cannot have it both ways derek! (but I try!)..
anyway very interesting -
you must smoke a lot of stuff to come up with this, but smoke a little more and think about what i'm saying.
love ya.. Roxanne Fontana
My Album Is A Finish Line Because Of It's Lyrics No One Gone To Buy It. But I Have Another Album In Process And Ready To Be Put Out But Don't Have The Money For Publishing. I Was Hoping The First Album Would Of Made The Money For Me But No Luck There. I really Don't No What To Do Right Now I Have A Album Out Now That Won't Make Me A Dime And An Album Ready To Put Out That's Gone To Make Me Famous. But Don't Have The Money For Publishing What Do I Do?
My album is the start of the starting line. I have a lot of promoting and marketing plans in motion
TIG from Product of Struggle entertainment (P.O.S.) will be a household name before I reach my finish line. and the finish line is death for me!
Hi Derek!!
Good question, but for me is both. Releasing a music work is the end of a page and the start of another.
How is your new enterprise going? I'm looking forward to your follow up in regards to your previous e-mail, re: help with bookings, managing, promoting services, etc..
Take care, Edu.
PS: just finished my new solo work and I'm designing a site to expose all my work as a band music producer and solo work as well.
Well, I can't say all my hyperactivity has amounted to that much so far (it's only been about 3 months since release), but the above paragraph certainly describes my life since June, and I've definitely earned more than $20 lol. it's more on the order of $600 so far, and I continue to promote, though I'm slightly less driven now, simply because my number of students has increased now with school being back in session. I've moved onto trying to get the album to a number of radio stations. I have garnered a number of nice reviews for all my efforts, some online, only one in a local arts paper to date (albeit an absolute rave!). I do enjoy your articles and advice, so please keep it up! thanks, Kari http://www.karitieger.com http://www.myspace.com/karitieger
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what can i say about your observation?
you do know, but we all have an opinion about the maddness of music. there was a time when to be a player in the music business was special.
my problem is that everyone in the digital age thinks they are special derek.
with the technology brought the masses in on a special gifted side of music making.
there are just to many.
we all get lost in the hoards of so called recording artists.but that is just my opinion.
when all the artists wished for indy-pendence from the big companys they as little richard said "the grass is always greener on the other side but just as hard to cut".
they found out that self promotion has a price! a big price tag!
which most indy artists cant afford.
ok you provided a service but not a record company promotional machine and you did fine out of all your hard work and all power to you.
but again,there was no route to the big arena unless the indy artist slogs his way with a fist full of dollars.
and like the old saying earning it night after night on the road.
then when and if you get lucky they all go with the big machine anyway.
so if the physical product doesnt sell what else do we have streaming?
a load of nonsense but at least people hear your music i guess.
just my opinion as well.
where it all ends up i dont know anymore.
but the music busi-messis in a sad state.
chico rey/bass player/recording artist
I view my albums (old school term, sorry) as both the start and the finish line. It takes a lot to put a record together. I'm curently wrestling with technical issues while I put together my new material and you may see it sometime next year or 2030, depending on how things go. Once the record is done, it's time to do the promotions, which is hit and miss for me. I don't have deep pockets so hiring a publicist or some other hired gun isn't an option. Therefore, I have to go with the $20 per year option. I will say that the downloads that I have sold through CD baby are much more frequent than the CD sales. This may be due to the market changing. For me, I've done much better online. Would I like to do better? Sure! Who Wouldn't? I'm not sure I can use this as a measure of success, however. The music comes out of nowhere. Before I recorded the songs, they didn't exist in the physical world. Now they're out in the open for everyone to enjoy and I recieve lots of nice comments about the music. I'm not doing this to make a living, so I think it doesn't matter how much I sell. Chris Nelson
Just keep up the good work..!!!
Nikida Da Rap Minister
It is both a starting line and a finish line. In order to finish you have to start and be sure you finish!
My album(s) is/are a starting line, although been running for a long time the finish line is still(Good Lord willing) far ahead!
I always(in faith) felt I would be an over-night sucess it's just been a long night! Music is a never-ending learning process no one but The Lord knows it all, but you can't get there(to the finish line) unless you go through it(the race).
God Bless and keep running toward God!
JimmYSixStrinGtm
http://cdbaby.com/all/jimmysixstring
starting line dude
Hello Derek, Just wanted to share some thoughts and ideas with you. My name is Christopher and I am writing on behalf of my wife Jeanette (Kiskadee). Actually we met a few years ago in London when you were touring Europe. Remember the loud bar we were all in and then we all moved to the quiet chinese restaurant? Anyway, Kiskadee was the partially sighted girl with the braids. I am sure you won't remember.
Anyway, we really admire the difference you are making for artists. You have made your mark already and are making a bigger and bigger one. I like the ideas you are sending around. The coaching servicew we look forward to. Also the one where others can help do the more mundane work is great. That would enable us to spend much more time on creative work.
Jeanette and I too are always ahead of our time when it comes to vision. Only just over a year ago we emailed cdbaby about getting a large amount of songs on itunes as digital only but at the time they had no solution. A year later now, and it is an option. For us, it is a very important option. We created two companies Minor2Major and EthicalMusic. Minor2Major is all about custom named greetings, so if you imagine we have some 15,000 audio files, that is alot. We took the most popular 1000 and signed them up for digital only at CDBaby and think it will prove very popular. It better be after hundreds and hundreds of hours of studio work!!
The other organisation (which is in its infancy still) is called EthicalMusic and I think you might want to be aware of it. Basically, we want to create a movement, not a world music movement but something new and which incorporates new technologies. We want it to become the "organic foods" of the music industry so that people are proud of saying "I support Ethical Music". We hope to use Facebook and other things to create the movement from the grassroots. Too much music is based on visual image and age. Not enough is based on the music and on the artist themself.
As you know, music is probably the most inspiring tool available to us and those who are inspiring deserve to be heard. For many it is their calling in life and they have to battle with old world corrupt music industries. Essentially this is what we envision:
Ethical Music sources and promotes unrecognized, talented, inspirational musicians and other artists from around the globe who would otherwise be overlooked by the conventional music industry. Through innovative technologies and strategies Ethical Music has created a revolutionary model, which empowers artists to earn a living through their art. We hope to develope an internationally well-renowned mainstream brand, we aim to create new markets for the artists and exploit existing ones. Moreover, through its worldwide educational and creative awareness programs to schools and colleges, EM will provide a social and financial benefit to the artists and their communities.
Imagine finding those gems of musicians who sell through CDBaby and featuring their life stories. Then it is about more than the music. It is the whole story. You should hear Kiskadee's story. Anyway, if any of what I have written creates a spark, do let us know.
Well, hope you had time to read this Derek. We will look out for other new initiatives!
Take care, Christopher and Jeanette (Kiskadee)
food for thought: There are some artists who may just have bad timing,not relying soley on their "genius" or strive for financial/fame gain.
For some - big cd sales are simply not the motive, being heard is, virtually or in person- even if its only $20-$100 worth of sales- or none at all. Their goal is to present the music so the audiance can be allowed to participate in the feelings the artists have to share. And they never think twice about how genius they are being - just artistic.
They start out with all the enthusiasm- have all the initiative to do all the correct and professional things and actually do, even find the time to help others along the way- who do in fact succeed and actually are able to follow through. However for others - it's not so pretty- because they have an natural infinity to attract life's dark side/murphy's law/bad luck/bad karma- whatever one wants to call it! guised as a death of a family member or friend, a divorce/seperation/, a natural disaster, an illness(mental or physical), a financial disaster -etc.etc. feel free to add to this list-which latches to them and wont let go. It could be years before they see a way of escape. Heck! they may even throw all their hardwork in the garbage or just ignore their talents all together.
I believe some may even have had to deal with these in multitudes and still manage- some unfortunately will not or cannot. They possibly may even attempt to get creative in trying to find ways around all the sadness/darkness yet! still cannot sell cd's successfully- even though the downloads and listens would make them very succesful- just not financially.
The simple torturous;) life of an artist seems to be fading with all the focus on the life of these new age technical geniuses and/or happy hip-hoppy-pop-tarts(even the old untalented ones*), which is why20it is fortunate that cdbaby exists. It allows artists to go at their own pace and allows them to stay true to themselves and what they are trying to bring to the table as a human- and not how young or old-ugly or beautiful-connected or related. Indepenedent artists have an advantage in my opinion, an advantage that is a double edged sword per say: even when someone close dies, or has been diagnosed with a cancer, or a hurricane has wiped out their studio- or their spouse left them for some hottie or stud - they can still have the option of selling or attempting to sell without losing a record deal or being pressured by the greedy decadent
Anyway:
I just wanted to share my thoughts. Hope you find somehing useful in them.
Take Care, Infaredhaze
*not sure what to call a male pop-tart.
Hopefully this is just a start. I've sold almost 200, mostly locally, so made about 2000+ or- before expenses .[more than 20$ that`s for sure]
I have a lot of gigs-- improving steadily,i believe, so Imay give it another try soon.
Fred
Thank you for this information, this is a very valuable question.I am putting together some new music, but I want the album cover to be more marketable than the first one.
Wow that was a great letter. I have been one of those who hasn't promoted my music and the results are exactly like you said. This new phase of my music making career is somewhat different. I thank-you for your insight. Ready Set Go!
The new cd baby buttons are awesome and my new web-site will be launching in a matter of weeks. Thank-you for all the inspiration you've given over the years.
peace
Astara Summers Chief Visionary Officer
Original Spark Music
http://www.OriginalSparkMusic.com
Cool Numbers play Bro. I guess I'm just slightly above the actual average. It's gotta be the starting line for me.
There can never be a finish line. Big push or little push, working it forever in some way is the best approach.
Kudos Derek!
my single album is a starting line bro.
you are totally correct. when we released our album, it was the starting line for me. i got us on 8 FM stations, a ton of podcasts and in regular rotation on a number of radio stations, plus i promoted it on every forum i could find. but for the other 4 guys it was the finish line. they stopped coming to practices and were extremely lazy. i would spend hours entering our music into competitions and send them the links and they were so lazy they wouldn't even go cast a single vote for our song. quite frustrating.
-mark A Simple Complex
From personal experience, I have to say that I don't think I agree with your assessment in total. My latest album (physical copies) has only sold about $70 (my earnings) in 2 years. That's not much, just 6 discs. But on my own, I have sold about 600 copies in those 2 years.
Similarly, my first album has sold 36 copies (about $200 went to me) in 6 years. But on my own, I sold out of the first print (1000 copies) in less than 4 years. My second album has sold 32 copies on CDBaby (and made me $250). I just got the reprint of it a few weeks ago, and sold out of the first 1000 copies of that just recently, in about 4 1/2 years time.
Granted, I could definitely do more work on the computer/internet side. But I could do more work on any side, if you want to be technical about it. I don't stay up late at night, and get 5 hours of sleep because I spend every waking hour working on it. But I do a lot of facebook and MySpace interaction and maintenance. Maybe more of that (and involvement on other sites) would result in more earnings via CDBaby, but who knows. I can't really say that my efforts on facebook and MySpace have made a huge impact. Right now, the biggest help CDBaby represents is in the digital realm. I make a lot more digital sales than physical sales via CDBaby and its partners. But it still doesn't come anywhere close to the sales I make from doing live shows.
I don't know how some CDBaby artists are making more than $10,000 per album online, but I would guess that they have a team of people behind them, handling the bulk of their online promotion. I've run into a lot of bands/artists on MySpace who don't even handle their own profiles, and people at shows ask me if I handle my own. I dream of having a team like that...
Anyway, the main thing that I would agree with Derek on is that you have to put work into it, and you can't expect anything to fall into your lap. I play about 150 shows a year, some of them crappy, and others great. There's no way I would have sold out of the first prints of my first two albums if I wasn't out there playing on a regular basis.
http://jeffmilleronline.com http://www.myspace.com/miller http://www.youtube.com/jeffmillernashville http://www.cdbaby.com/millerjeff
I'm old and damaged but I can say something useful about that Start/Finish thing. I recorded twice in 1966 and four times in '67 and continued to "finance my goals" all along. Every fifth musician would say to me "Yeah, I'm gonna record an album-- blah blah blah"--
Well, my 1977 LP "The Player" (850 copies distributed/sold) pops-up on ebay now, right next to the Doors and Cream, and others for $12-to-$30.... My 1983 LP "Now id the Time" ( 1,000 sold/distibuted) shows up in record bins in Southern Cal and a couple in Colorado and on ebay for $8 to $25)
Alejandro Escovedo wrote me a very nice note back in March about my "Mojave" CD and, though I am struggling still I have a decent following of about 2,000 fans.... my rare gigs are always well-attended (or SRO)--
I fucked-up, bent, distorted and otherwise damaged, but I'm still in the running-- Thank you, JH
The release of my album is definitely a starting line. I want to do whatever I can to get it out there. I really feel that this is where the real work begins that is why I am reaching out to do whatever I can to maximize getting it out there.
Thanks
Richard
Excellent point!!!! And this is definitely my STARTING LINE! I can't work quite as furiously as some for various reasons. But I am not anywhere near finished. No way.
I am gigging, working web pages etc. at a pace I can maintain. And I am keeping my creative disciplines. For me the creative stuff is the MOST IMPORTANT. Then the gigging (first because I LOVE doing it and secondly because it sells albums and promotes me as an artist) and then 3rd is all the web-based promotional activities. There¹s other stuff too but that is a basic idea.
Cheers, Linda Wood
Hi Derek, This is to embarrassing to post publicly but all 4 albums and 1 single has started with an end
Suzanne
I have 2 records out, & I'm still going to release at least 2 more. So, I hope this is the ''starting line''! As far as hard work, I produced, wrote, sang, & played guitar on 2 records of my own, & wrote, performed, & produced an album for a new band ''Tourmaline S.D.''
As much as I would love to be one of those networking, self promoting, salesmen - type guy . . . . I'm simply not that kind of person. I guess I am somewhat introverted. I still believe a vouch from someone, is more valid than self-promotion.
I paid $5000 on each record to a friend who was in a famous band, to help me get some publicity. He even got a publicist to writ a review. I don't think anyone read it though! My total earnings for both records . . . . about $150.00.
I started recording my songs two years ago, now I am flat broke.
Sincerely, Erik (L A M M Y a.k.a. Mr. True)
Got one album done and the 2nd 1/2 way there.need help promoting and selling the 1st one and money to finish the 2nd.Any suggestions on selling and marketing?
Another point in the line, the long and winding road, Hey now, hey now,
Don't Dream It's Over!
Derek; Thanks again for this helpful article.
Bruce Maier Publisher/ http://damngoodtunes.com
My album is a finishing line. I have never made money and have repeatedly spent more than $2000 a year trying to make it. I quit. I have any album ready to send but I stoppedbye and may God bless, Wayne Manby
Brilliant!
Hi Derek;
My CD Driftwood is my third CD that CD Baby has in store.
I guess I don't understand your question.
The other two CDs are Down Home Music and Brazos de Dios.
I own my Tumalo Recordinig label and Silver Stream Music.
I suppose Driftwood is not the startiung line or necessarily the finish line.
Maybe I can answer you better next time.
Sincerely Alton Wayne
Dear Derek, Thank you for this. I can appreciate where you're coming from with this insightful observation and the illustrative use of the analogy of the, "starting line", vs, the, "finish line". I like the way your mind works Derek, and the sense of sharing and caring that you extend to, "indies", by offering the means through, CD-Baby for struggling musical artist to have access to a venue through which to bring their wares to the buying public! The financial deal of, 9 cents on the dollar to CD-Baby with the remaining 90 cents to the artist is a break-through in the music business! It set the music business world reeling and has caused, 'Labeled Record Companies', to start shaking in their boots in contrast to there dirty deals of 90 cents to them, with the remaining 10 cents divided up with the publishers/studio engineers/LP photo cover, etc., with maybe, 3, or, 5 cents left of that dollar profit, actually going to the struggling artist! Well done laddie, (a Scottish term of endearment, by the way,...ha, ha, ha)!
And yet, even within the digital revolution, and the premier of the, "Digital Music Distributors", (which you spearheaded as one of the original innovators of this new venue), there still remains a lot of work for the artist to assume responsibility for,...and that concerns itself with the work of publicity. That is to say, an artist still need to shake the bushes, so to speak, in order to bring further attention to their work, which, of course, can be accessed through the inter-net via, personal web-sites, wherein an artist/band can produce, two, or, three camera shoots of their live gigs, or, go further to produce their own story-line shoots featuring other artist/friends, (college students majoring in drama), to assist playing the roles of the characters referenced in any particular song.
But even so, it still takes money to make money. Accessing the equipment for a 3-camera shoot and having the Sibbie to story-board the contents of the song, and all the, "lights, camera, action!",...and then to do the necessary editing in the production of such a work is in itself an art form that stands alone,(thanks to the Beatles having sent videos to the Ed Sullivan Show and thereby creating, MTV), and of course this all takes time and money for independent video productions of this sort, and even then, in all of these processes, from become an accepted artist carried by CD-Baby as a, "client", and then going further to set up an independent web-site, and yet further to produce music videos, one must realize the numbers to be crunched!?
These numbers I refer to here are two fold, or, fall into two categories. The first group of numbers are as follows and must be averaged just to make the point of what an artist is up against in order to effectively hit the market place and sell their wares/product. So, on an average, CD-Baby has 200,000, clients/artists, and there are 57 other, "Digital Music Distributors", out there in cyber-space, ie., I-Tunes and Rhapsody, just to mention a few,...and each can be said to have 200,000 clients as well, more, or, less. So we must consider averages here, and when we do some math and crunch these numbers; 200,000 X 58 = 11,600,000 clients total within the Digital Music Distributor's arena alone,...not to mention the number of artist featured by the large record companies, which would add perhaps another 12,000,000!
So we see here that even when an artist is fortunate enough, (& I hope that is the right word to use here, ha, ha, ha!), to get on-board any music distributor company, as a client, there is still a lot of work to be done and considered for promotional reasons. ANd for this reason alone an artists needs to have an additional game plan, cause nobody makes a dime, if, nobody in the buying public is not made aware of the nobodies, (said artist), trying to cut into the market place!! As illustrated in the tally above within the 58 Digital Music Distributors, the odds are 1 in 11,600,000 that the artist will become a successful musical celebrity.
I was so excited when you and the CD-Baby crew accepted me as a, "client", I knew it was a good start, or, that I had at least a toe place on the, "starting line", to coin your phrase Derek! Wow,...my album, "Main Street", was on the inter-net, right there on a digital music distributor's, web-site, a company that I had researched and decided to do business with! And when I first went to the site, you had provided for me, and introduced my information, ie., photo cover, bio, music review, I learned that my album was on a page with other albums also entitled, "Main Street",...like hundreds of em!!! Ha, ha, ha!!! But even so, it was the start I desperately needed and I was so grateful to have made it to that point, and as I continued to research and crunch numbers I did, in fact, realize that mine was only, one of 11,600,000 other CD's out there on the, "cyber-space", music market place, and that's not to mention the number of artists listed out there with Labels pushing their clients product!
So,...just one grain of sand out there on the beach, so to speak! Toe to the starting-line, and boom!,...the gun goes off and I'm now in a race with millions of competitors.
How do I ensure that I ensure that I at least make it to the finish line!? Once again, it takes money to make money. Sending CDs out to college radio stations is a good strategy, and we're talking hundreds, by the way, more cost to absorb, or, fork out, along with an independent web-site featuring video coverage as mentioned above,...yet more cost to absorb. An artist having to deal with the further promotional work necessary to bring their product/work to the public's awareness can be interesting and involve wheeling and dealing. An artist can perhaps request a video production company to consider receipt of a percentage of said video sales profits as producers of said music videos, or, go to colleges that offer film production as one of it's courses and talk some eager students, actors, camera people, editors, etc., to play a part in the production of a video with a copy of said video offered a reward as part of the deal, that can become a part of their portfolio/resume', something they would all feel proud of being a part of,...team work,...helping each other out!? The other set of numbers I need to mention here to complete the circle is that of the buying public, who access the inter-net for their shopping needs,...and lets face it, the first two numbers are; 24/7. The inter-net is accessed 24/7 around the entire planet by at least 4 billion people, if not more,...so that's the good news. You didn't think this letter was all going to be about gloom and doom in the cyber-space market place now did ya!! Ha, ha, ha!!
AS for me Derek, I have much to do and much to consider with all this and there is more I would discuss with you now but I am up against some personal tragedy that I won't bother you with, and as such I hope you will please forgive my lack of enthusiasm regarding the other affair you were kind enough to extend to me regarding offering advise to up and coming musical artist. It was my understanding that the offers for advice, or, marketing strategies would be forwarded to my email as a member of your staff, and because I have been dealt some rather devastating news as regards the state of affairs concerning my health,...I have, shall we say, had reason to reconsidering many things in my life with the realization that time is no longer on my side. The spirit is willing,...but the flesh is weak, laddie!
So in closing, always remember this,...most atrist are ahead of their time,....and behind in their rent!!!! HA, ha, ha,...until I hear from you again friend! Thanks!!
Hey Derek, Every CD I produce is at the starting line. My latest Summer release, The Darwin Effect, is now at the starting line. I did the CD release party deal...but that wasn't enough for me....going for the Grammy is...so as a voting member with the Recording Academy... I submitted my CD for consideration. All The Best, Deborah
Derek good to hear from you again. I actually DO have another CD that will be coming your way as soon as I finish packaging it. The cover is all that is left to create. It is actually an album I made with my Dad that I have had digitized and formatted and is now a CD. This part is my own production. The original Mr Moon Over Texas is actually my preferred version, (also on "Generations") done the original western swing style. It also features Herb with 6 instrumentals sprinled throughout which makes for a very listenalbe CD. It is called REMINGTON COUNTRY featuring father and son on one album. Just to let you know. I perform live professionally here in my area all the time. Never had any difficulty acquiring gigs whether it features my songs or everyone elses. Best Westerns, VFW's, local festivals, restaurants, and coffee houses all use me on a regular basis whether it is a one man band, or just acoustic or a full blown band of local musicians. It sounds like I do lot of bragging but I usually do not.. I let my performance speak for itself. We only go around once, I love performing to small audiences and large, and at 60 years of age I see no end in sight. So I will keep doing this as long as someone is willing to pay a reasonable wage and I have listeners. Nothing is free except our choices. My circle is still expanding here in Ruidoso area ie. southeast New Mexico but of course I keep my prices down to where most people can afford me. Honestly, Derek, although my CD's are pretty good, they do not reflect how I have grown musically recently. It IS time for Mark to record some thing new, and I will. I promise. "Generations" cost $17,500 to produce. I do not think I personally can spend that much on my next one but it will happen. I'll see Dad in Houston next month, the first time in years, After Ike, he is still digging out. I know you are considering artists for major label production, so I want you to know that this independent performer is a real performer that people come back to hear again and again. You can call Cindy Olson of Sight and Sounds Productions in Austin, Texas She has been booking me for years. If you got this far, thanks for reading. Mark
Derek, not the starting line or the finish line. It is an on going experiment in the reality of the Long Tail. My petri dish. Your profit center. It's that that bridges two realities at the end of the beginning of this interstitial moment. Liminality that is shuddering to an end. As long as we can afford computers of some sort this can work.... If not, it's back to the ;12th century. At least it's not boring.
What I've done to promote my new cd THINK., now up at CDBABY, is to run a small ad in my local music magazine, Metronome, here in Massachusetts. I've also got myself onto the iMeems site and am harassing and annoying my friends and contacts on Youtube as well as Eons.com.
Last cd, six years ago, I kind of quit after I finished the cd and nobody bought it. Whether or not anyone buys this one, it will not be for the lack of trying on my part for guerilla promotion.
I also have a six-year-old copy of the Indie Bible that I've been using to get college radio call letters from and have just been googling them that way with emails. I have actually had some success and have been promised some airplay at a few of them, out of a couple of hundred.
I'm trying to get it heard before the upcoming elections as it is mostly politically oriented music.
So, to use your phrase, I'm now at the "starting line" and will keep "running" to the best of my ability 'till I get to "the end" where, hopefully, there'll be some nice checks from CDBABY waiting!
Thanks for your continued support of indie musicians-J.R. Wilbur.
Okay, so my record is in the former category...I definitely viewed it as a starting line. I treated it as such...I promoted it online and outside of that as much as possible (and as much as my pocketbook would allow), in every way I could think of. I think it's a good record, too...I really do. BUT, my income from the record from CD Baby did not even approach $5000. Several hundred dollars at best. I mean, our band has not had the means to tour relentlessly...Maybe that's where we're deficient. But it seems to me that $5000 can't possibly be the true average. I'd bet most people are making less.
I have realized it is the starting line, not the finish line.
Andy Chatfield
Recently I traveled to France (vacation and biz) in August to meet with a booking agent I met at Midem 06 when I took my album and press kit to 51 meetings in 4 1/2 days.
I returned early Sept., and am pleased to mention he has proposed a cross-country tour in France of 20 shows in 30 days for June 2009, with Radio and TV, etc. I accepted the terms.
In association with booking co. and my music, all expenses for us (me and engineer) are paid for by sponsors.
It doesn't do what I need to happen for my music with performances here, however it does help to legitimize my continued efforts.
So I returned and pushed this reality on the booking agents here, do they bite (?) … not really.
Sincerely,
Evan Wish www.evanwish.com
Album - “Lullaby of Love” Contemporary Classical/New Age
Evan Wish: A description of the artists’ music. Beautiful, powerful Contemporary Classical Instrumental Piano performances by a seasoned pianist, who effortlessly embraces romance, love and hope, while pushing the music's positive influence on the listener to new heights.
Peter Granet: Peter Granet: Grammy Nominated Engineer Producer/Engineer on Lullaby of Love
Born and raised in New York City, Granet earned his B.A. at Queens College. His music career began in earnest with stints at Dick Charles recording Services and National Recording in New York. While at National, Mr. Granet worked with Jazz Greats Duke Ellington, Chico Hamilton and The Modern Jazz Quartet.
Later on in his career, while a staff engineer at famed Wally Heider Recording in Hollywood, he recorded the Grammy nominated "Southern Comfort" album for the jazz-funk group The Crusaders. Peter was nominated for a Grammy for his work on the album. Recorded and mixed the double platinum "Destiny" album last of the Jackson's album prior to Michael’s solo career.
Later he would join forces with world famous composer Lalo Schifrin to record with Dizzy Gillespie's and Lalo Schifrin himself.
On the rock side of his career Mr. Granet recorded albums with Jackson Brown, Linda Ronstadt, Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Ravi Shankar and George Harrison as well as recording and mixing George Harrison's single "Bangladesh". Van Morrison, Eddie Rabbitt and “Bad Finger” to mention just a few also sought after his talents.
Semi-retired, Mr. Granet continues to work with Lalo Schifrin and Evan Wish, a modern composer/concert pianist who writes and performs brilliant contemporary classical and new age pieces.
I have been selling my albums using the cdbaby site for music samples,then later following up in one on one sale with customer,this is working for me.. I have sold around 650 copies so far...I guess it is the starting line approach ?
for me promotion dosen't end on the release day. It is an ongoing process.
MIGHT BE UNCOOL It was the finish line, and onto the next. Which is the way it IS for a real artist.
The majority of bands/individuals love the "idea" of a successful product, but that's not the same as actually "working" towards a successful product. The media reinforces the myth of, 'The overnight success "story"/being "born" that way' because it helps sell papers/ TV shows by reinforcing what people want to hear: namely, that this new star has succeeded (by comparison) because they got "lucky" or because they are "supernatural." Not everyone wants to labor and learn how to shine brightly.
Ultimately, people have to confront themselves. Are you working at it, or are you playing at it? Is it a hobby or is it a business? Anyone can create a product but empirically, does your product hold up in the marketplace? Do perfect strangers buy it? The measure is in the numbers, derived from consistent, directed efforts. This is the non-romantic part.
Take travel for example. For me, the romance of being out on the road wore off when I'd start waking up in hotel rooms that look alike, and had no idea what city I was in, let alone what time zone it was. But I knew I'd get to perform- that's the good stuff- and that's what kept me going. What kept me going was learning every day, and asking, 'What is it that I can do better?' For me, this was the real, "Starting line."
James Wallace http://www.jameswallace.net
It's just the start baby just the start of things, we got or new cd on the way next month!
My experience: the records i released through a visible, profitable record company (Free Country) continue to sell in small numbers, due to the fact that, still, record companies specialize in SELLING record, and they have an interest in doing so. The cds that were done through a small (broke) company or through my website NEVER sell. Now my music is not very commercial...but I think the hard reality here is that the odds of success are just as small online as they were 30 years ago off-line. It doesn't mean you shouldn't try. But the internet "revolution" has not made me any money...no, it has cost me money. I spent around $1000 on a new website for Passing Train and have sold about $250 worth of product NONE of which came from online sales. Are you feeling me, friends? People can hear my music on myspace, which is great. But no sales! What does it all mean?
joel harrison
great article, it gives me alot of motivation. i'm a starting line
Well, I have to admit, I worked for about eight years on music, releasing just two albums via CD Baby in 2006. I've made a tune here and there since, but really, that was it. My ten year old son's autism has pretty much taken over my life so my synth sits here silent now and covered with dust. For me, Orphic Endeavors' CD Baby release of "Abandoned Hospital" was my last album. :( Depressing, but true. I hate being a statistic. :P
Thank you for this kick in the butt.
Since then, I paid musicSUBMIT to send 400 epk, modified a little bit my website and prepare to home made video to be post on youtube and elsewhere. Let's see what comes next !
Hope you are having a nice week.
Florian
These things don't come so easy!
The highs are so high and the lows are low. But the fact remaining I am a musician and will always be till the day I expire. I haven't sold many CD's but I can still feel myself evolving even at my age.
These things don't come so easy!
The highs are so high and the lows are low. But the fact remaining I am a musician and will always be till the day I expire. I haven't sold mant CD's but can still feel myself evolving even at my age.
Well written article.
The thread by Alton Wayne may be the only clue I have to this artist. Hope ,nopw,to be able to contact him through the information he gave and the 45rpm record I have under the Verla label.