If I had a record label, would you be signed to it?
2008-04-24
If I had a record label, would you be signed to it?
I never liked the idea of having a record label, because you're too deeply invested into something you don't control.
So if I were to have a label, my decision on who to sign wouldn't be decided just by the quality of the music. There are plenty of people with great music but destructive work-habits or an unsustainable approach to their career.
To confidently invest in an artist (as a label), I'd want to see:
- every song has been absolutely improved repeatedly - every note/syllable crafted to be the best it can be
- vocal performance is not just perfect but head-turning, striking
- arrangement is everything it can be to bring out song/vocal
- arrangement offers a new idea to the world, and not just the usual paint-by-numbers
- photos/image are striking and amazing, and capture the essense of the music
- live show is so entertaining that even a deaf person would enjoy it
- band has been around, recording and gigging, for at least 2 years
- artist has done this for a few years and still believes that this is their real calling in life, regardless of external rewards (or total lack of)
- band members don't need unreasonable amounts of money to perform (can perform profitably)
- band can entertain a crowd without props or big sound system (in-store appearances)
- off-stage persona is sustainable (stamina, dealing with fans well, etc)
- no addicts - to anything
- an unflappably healthy attitude to the immense amount of work it really takes to be successful at anything
And so you see why I'll never have a label. Who could possibly fit this list? Garth Brooks? Dave Grohl?
I haven't talked to any labels about this yet, but I wonder what their perspective would be. I'm friends with Jac Holzman who discovered the Doors and obviously didn't regret it, despite Jim Morrison being the opposite of everything on my list. I should ask him. (Jac, not Jim.)
Anything you'd add to the list? (I'm assuming there are many things you'd subtract.)
How about signing bands and artists whose strengths outshone their weaknesses? We are defined by our flaws and without them we lose our humanity. Unfortunately I think that using your own model, you wouldn't end up with the creative and lucrative label that you wanted, and would in fact end up with the very thing you are trying to avoid - blandness.
I think you should simply gravitate towards the music that gets you stoked, and make the business decision later. I get the feeling that this post is the distributor in you talking, and not the A&R development team or manager.
I'm not sure if I'd want to hear any of the songs of someone who fitted your current criteria. Here's to being flawed, even fatally, in the hope that something unique will come from it. Because after all, if you do have something truly unique (which is one of your points) then to be honest a lot of the other points seem less important.
Your 'label' doesn't sound particularly nurturing and sounds to me that by the time you'd be ready to commit to signing a particular artist they would already have been snapped up by someone else. Another label would have signed them if they even hit a few of your points, and worked on the rest over time.
Don't forget, a lot of the things on your list an artist is actually looking for help with, to fill in the gaps, to understand the arena they're going in. It's your expertise which can help them grow and learn how to do the other stuff that they're looking for. Some bands have the look and not the music, others the music but not the look, some bands market themselves brilliantly but need help with the songs etc etc - nobody's perfect, there's always room for improvement.
And with a label's help, a band or artist can learn, grow and improve. Learn, grow, improve. Judging from your list it appears you don't want to put any work in, which is what we've all been moaning about the majors for for years. You would probably have to wait for a band to be signed to a small label who do all this nurturing over two years, and then lure them with money away from the people who helped them develop. Like the majors have been doing for ages - to cash in on a sure bet, somone somewhere is going to have put the work in first.
So personally I'd settle for great music, and just figure out if I could work with these people or not. I think you've answered your own question when you couldn't think of any artists who fitted your criteria - anyone who fitted all the criteria wouldn't sign to your label anyway - because they'd already be extraordinarily successful in their own terms. What could you possibly offer an artist who ticks all your boxes?
Things I would add...
1. Learning to play your main instrument to an ability that's beyond good.
2. Write what is striking to you personally. Then figure out how to make it something others will find striking.
3. Learn to write, then learn to re-write. Well written songs can withstand genres and stereotypes.
4. Don't be afraid to try different instruments in a song.
5. Can't play something correctly - Hire someone who can.
6. Are the songs your writing causing you to get goosebumps? They should.
7. Is your performing ability enough to give people goosebumps? It should.
8. Be so compelling that hit songwriters want to write with you.
9. Check the attitude at the door. Nothing prevents you from getting work faster than being a dick or blowing off a gig.
10. Don't let a relationship dictate your actions.
As a musician I would naturally take quite a few things out of this list because there is enough emirpical evidence out there that musicians have got signed to labels without fully satisfying this list. E.g live shows for one. Joe Satriani's is an extremely rated and talented guitarist but his live shows are boring, yet I would still be more than willing to go to his shows...Things like songwriting and vocals are also a bit abstract and what one like can also be what someone else hates. Probably a better way of putting that one is that artists should be willing to flexible enough to change and adapt their songs when it comes to working with producers and professionals of the industry.
On the other hand there are some things I would add to the list, one of them being that the musician has to have a clear understanding of the music business and have well defined PLANS and measurable targets that show the band's uncompromising desire for success. The record label is then an ally of the band in helping them achieve their goals.
I would add a willingness and proclivity towards creating all the time. Not just writing new music, although that is clearly a major part of it, but to be focussed upon evolving continually. This process not only keeps things fresh and interesting for the artist and those around them, but also importantly for the fans too.
And this list is exactly why I've let my label stagnate and am focusing on production and songwriting instead.
Investing your own time and money in someone else's dream is not a great business plan. I wish I'd read your post about 5 years ago!
All of the above are valid points, but susceptible to certain criticsms:
1. The creative issues are a matter of personal taste, aren't they? How can you tell when a vocal performance is "head-turning/striking" and when it's just over-the-top and annoying? Same goes for everything - there is no clear-cut formula, except "I love/hate/don't care about it." Being an artist myself, I've a long time ago decided that the stuff I write and do has to please me. If it does, there's always going to be a group of people who will like it as well. (Plus a group that will hate it, of course. ;) )
2. A surprising number of mega-huge, long-time artists have at least had spells of a bad working attitude, so here's something to consider: with the bad comes the good. The destructive habits of rock stars make working with them a pain, but go down real well with the music-buying public. For many people, a rock star provides a safe outlet for all the stuff they'd like to do, but would never dare. That's why artist biographies sell so well - especially those with a lot of naughty bits. Sunday-school choir boys don't sell at all well though, so it's really a case of controlling the chaos the best you can, non?
What I think the most important though are the points about having done it for years and still working at it, plus the ability to work to a budget and less-than-perfect conditions. Too many musicians today are thrown in the big time too early and never really learn to go it on their own. As a result, without large amounts of money pumped in, they're helpless. There are others, who - having had big investments made in them - decide that this isn't really what they want in life (Joss Stone comes to mind here).
Reading the list, I know I would not be signed to your company, for at least one reason (it comes in paper and has a filter attached ;) ), possibly more. On the other hand, I'm not sure if I'd want to, given as part of my band's appeal comes from breaking the rules (though in a controlled way).
It's a good post, all the same. Quite a few young bands I know could take good heed of this advice. It's academic, since you aren't starting a label, but definitely something to ponder on.
Ah, but Derek, I think you're getting caught up in the nitty gritty details of what successful acts make themselves to be eventually. I say this with absolutely no disrespect, but you're sounding a bit like a major label A&R person.
Basically, your criteria indicates that you are only willing to make very conservative choices -- pick a proven and already-successful talent. One you can for sure bet on profitability. An act that does all the maturing before they get to you.
Because a label is a business, I fundamentally don't disagree with you on many of your criteria. But I think you may be able to whittle down that list to its essence, in return allowing yourself to be open to find talents that may not be as realized as your list, but give you every reason to believe that they will be soon.
I think it boils down to two qualities: passion and aptitude.
"artist has done this for a few years and still believes that this is their real calling in life, regardless of external rewards (or total lack of)"
This is a good indication of their passion/dedication to their art. You do have to see them over some time to ensure that this is a life-long pursuit without exterior motives for worldly rewards. Creating art should be a reward in itself, and the person/people pursuing it should see that and still love it enough to spend their lives doing it.
I once heard a story that of a film director. In order to make his film, he maxed out all credit cards, mortgaged his own house AND his grandmother's house. The point is that he believed so much in his story that he was willing to risk not just everything he owned but his family, too. (and he did become successful) It's not something that can be recommended, but it's an example of what an artist will do when he/she passionately believe in his/her/their art.
The second piece is about their ability to learn and grow:
"every song has been absolutely improved repeatedly - every note/syllable crafted to be the best it can be"
And the same should apply to their performance.
Writing and performing are both skills. Skills can be learned. (especially where there is passion) Sure, you can't manufacture Freddie Mercury out of every man, but if a singer is both die-hard passionate and has a fertile mind that can absorb and grow rapidly, then he/she is bound find his/her own style, the way to make their singing work with the songs they write and make something compelling.
An act that has both passion and aptitude can and will develop every other qualities needed for success: great material, striking performance, good work ethic, and effective image/presentation.
I suppose I may be talking more about incubation than making an immediately profitable business venture -- but just as raising kids can be deeply rewarding experience (but you can't control them) I think there can be a great partnership between label/management and artists.
All that said, Derek, I think if you see an act that you MUST sign, I think your heart will know first, before your head. They may not have everything on your list. But you'll be so super excited about them, that the thought of working with them will probably keep you awake at night and make you not taste what you're eating.
There's no need to over-analyze.
Not even Garth Brooks or Dave Grohl could meet that list.. And Christ was a carpenter so he's out. Oh and that (in-store appearances) thing.
I agree with Daniel, "Investing your own time and money in someone else’s dream is not a great business plan."
As a musician I would hope to aspire to this list. If I were a label I don't think I could sign myself just yet.
I believe that there is no verified formula as to why people end up working together or not. At the end of the day, both parties (labels and artists) need to click and be on the same wave length. Music is such a personal and abstract notion that it is mostly left to gut feeling, emotional response and risk taking abilities.
If bands tick all the points you are listing Derek, then it means they are running a successful business and therefore why would they need to be signed to a label ? And yes, there are artists out there who fit your list !
Howdy from Times Square NYC Derek,
Greetings from the big apple on one of the first beautiful summery days..starting a Record Label up? These days, sure I'd sign with you!
I started my own label Ham-Berger-Friz Records and it's doing well but it's a lot of work to do everything including being the artist/bandleader/composer on the label so I'd be in to relinquishing some points if I had somebody I could trust like Derek Sivers to take care of the label biz. Please keep me in the loop about this, sounds highly-interesting to me!
All the best,
Jon
*Member AFM Local 802, Local 6 / ASCAP Publisher
**Host of daily morning radio show HammondCast on KYOURADIO
I agree with you Derek and also agree that it would be rare to find someone who meets all of your criteria.
I think that the artist being the right kind of person should be the very top thing on the list. That's not to say that the musical aspects you mentioned and arrangements are not very important, but if I had a label I would be very wary of signing anyone without getting to know them fairly well on a personal basis. Investing in drunken/ addict rockstar-types is definitely not smart business!
I sort of agree with Atul about the live performance, but I think it depends on the genre. If I am seeing an instrumental guitarist play I expect a little energy onstage, but maybe not at the level of say a vocal rock band.
On the other hand tough, a great live performance can definitely create record sales. Last summer I saw the band My Chemical Romance on a festival tour. I'm 42 years old and had kind of lumped them in with the numerous other bands in their genre. They put on an incredible live show and their singer was a charismatic frontman on the level of someone like Freddie Mercury. He had the crowd (including me) in the palm of his hand.
I went out the next week and bought two of their CD's. Feeling the power of that first hand made me realize that when I do another rock vocal band project myself I will not settle for anything less than this type of singer/ frontman.
I think this is a good list if I read it as an artist looking to attract investors/distribution/or a label.
From the label perspective, this might be a good checklist for a CEO or president to have. However, I would think it could be balanced by having an A&R who's a little more visionary and willing to shape and mold. Then if the A&R comes across an act they really believe in, their passion might sell the CEO in spite of the missing criteria.
I think in the beginning of Mr. Mojo Risin's career he probably matched most of the criteria on your list, but the more sucessful he became the more of a fuck up he became too. Kind of like "Eric Von Stroheim, the man you love to hate!" I admire how he challeged authority and "the man." He certainly always kept things interesting... a pure artist in every sense of the word.
In some ways, CD Baby is a label in it's own right. I love it and have released three cd's through CD Baby since 2002 and intend to release many more (BTW, I love your digital distribution set-up). Just like life you get out of it what you put into it. "In the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make!" It's a D.I.Y. world these days. Peace.
http://www.myspace.com/richsheldon
Great, so, then, I'll be the first artist you sign.
Sweet.
Just let me know when you finally decide to start a label.
You won't even have to fly me out to the west coast to sign me, FedEx the contract, that'll be fine.
Another thing to consider is that some bands are ready to go big time NOW, but don't know how to do all that business stuff. By the time they learn how to do all those things you mention, their time may well be over and you have both lost out.
Some of the greatest things happen when people with different skill sets come about and everyone can just concentrate on what they're good at.
Wow,
I don't think I could pull off that list... but I am excited that my new CD was just released yesterday on CD BABY (what I think of as the label I'm signed to).
http://www.cdbaby.com/gypsymusic2
xoxo
One love.
Gypsy
The reality is that A&R has changed. Big record labels are not willing to take a chance on artists like they used to. They used to sign someone and give them a record or two to hone their craft, etc, but it's not so now.
So, if someone doesn't meet most of the characteristics on Derek's their odds of getting signed to a major are pretty slim. So the alternative is to educate yourself on the business and release your record as an indie. By selling it through CD Baby and other distributors you will make more money off each record sale and won't have some advance which needs to be recouped.
@ Ronnie... yeah, and you added a nice one, as well :
"If I were a label I don’t think I could sign myself just yet."
More artists should think like that. It's too easy to proclaim you're the Next Big Thing when it's someone else's money on the line.
Record Labels as Venture Capital, that's where my head is at with this issue lately... and these days, as Derek has discussed here previously, artists are able to do a ton on their own, without a traditional record label investing in their dream.
If you had a label, I would definitely want to be signed to it!
I guess you would have passed up Bob Dylan and Nirvana...
It seems you missed the number one point when it comes to mass media potential, the one that trumps all of your requirements - the story. I'll take an artist with a good story and less than perfect, but passionate performances (Janis Joplin, Hendrix, etc) over an anally revisionist craftsman any day.
Another couple of things to add...
Believe in your ability and music so much that you will sacrifice all your worldly goods for it.
Do you have a business plan? Remember this is a business. I've personally got 3. One simple (5 pages), one mid-level (17 pages) and one all encompassing (48 pages).
If you're not willing to do that, then why should someone else?
The music is and will ALWAYS be THE most important thing. If you don't connect with people through the music...it doesn't matter.
The great thing about, say, the 70's was the artists were more able to focus on their end of the bargain, the music. And that's why the music was better (generally WAY better) in the 60's and 70's than it is now.
Now, plenty of artists got screwed business-wise in those times, but plenty didn't.
I doubt there are very many GREAT artists who are great at all the other stuff. If we were, we wouldn't care at all about labels.
As it is, with all the DIY stuff that's been going on, artists still find it sexy (and usually helpful) to be on a label (or at least signed with a brilliant manager).
Managers are the new labels...
Working with artists IS a huge pain in the butt. That's why they are artists.
My criteria?
There is none. If I see the light shining from them, then I'll give them a shot.
That's my job - to assist them in all those areas in which they have not developed.
The only things you've left off the list is what personal satisfaction you would receive by investing (your own success criteria). You've stated your criteria for those who you would sign, but you mention nothing about what it means to you or your business. Is it money, philanthropy, vanity, innovation, radio airplay, building a brand, getting quoted...? What do your signing criteria supposedly add up to?
I personally think your signing criteria are open to interpretation, but once the success metrics are established, the signing criteria interpretation will be narrowed.
A quest for perfection is admirable, and shows in the quality of your business. Entrepreneurs and control of business are a common marriage.
Some of what I recommend is found under the website FAQs ... things looked for in people I work closely with. Talent, growth factor, ability to take action and marketability are part of it too.
While history shows that creative genius leans outside social norms, the quality of life factor comes to the negotiating table also. If you're good to work with folks you believe in, who are creatively remarkable, yet are a true destruction to themselves or others, rock on. Free will. All choices have consequences. Sometimes it's worth it, sometimes not. It apparently worked for Jac.
You realize, Derek, that if you aren't practicing these stringent standards in your own life, so to speak, that run the risk of being a hippocrite?
I cringe at your list: reminds me why i probably don't want to be in the music 'business' but can indulge in the 'art' of the art to my heart's desire...
Based on this list, a good number of my heroes would slip through the cracks.
That said, I don't see anything on the list that artists shouldn't be striving for anyway. I think Ari has it above: most of these are learned skills, or things that an artist can develop by working with peers, a mentor or a hired pro.
I think it's a fabulous list to strive for, but there probably aren't many artists that fit all of it.
You'd have to settle for sifting through and prioritizing these, and figuring out which ones are things you could work with the artist to achieve.
But then, I don't really think Derek is starting a new label.
Nor do I think he posted this to get responses.
I suspect he just wanted to make people think about what it really takes to run a successful label...
Honestly, though, most successful labels I've seen start with ONE successful artist, and that artist and/or the people willing to help them end up adding other not-so-successful artists out of the love for their music.
They then balance the expense of maintaining that artist with their revenue, and keep them or drop them.
Or, often as not, the artist just sort of drifts away, finding a new job or even just finding a label that's a better fit...
I think every indie label signs artists they personally love. So really, at the end of the day, it comes down to being passionate about any artist you sign but they also have to want to become successful and work harder than you, no matter what.
I've learned this lesson the hard way - signing acts I loved but ultimately ones that couldn't go the distance because I wanted them to be successful more than they wanted to be successful. Ah, live and learn.
I think anyone that starts a label these days has to just sign music they love and artists that are working non-stop to promote their music.
That's the formula for success - everything else is subjective.
Jennifer Yeko
True Talent Management
http://www.truetalentmgmt.com
Heh, seems like the lo-fi garage rock I enjoy wouldn't stand a change.
My points would just be:
- Write/perform catchy songs
- Give live shows people talk about
- rock hard
What is wrong with wanting an artist who has their act together, is not self centered and spoiled, Has a realistic grasp of where the music industry is right now, and is in it for the music?
The fact that some people are pooh poohing this is what I find disconcerting about some of the responses in this thread.
I don't understand comments like "Derek, you sound like the major labels now".
Maybe it’s how I interpret Derek’s list, but I see the priorities of his (make believe) label to be about originality, and artistic discipline. I don’t see that as the priorities of the major labels.
What I see coming out of the major labels is cookie cutter generic music/artists that look good, sound good, but whose music is mostly unmemorable.
At the very least, this list makes a very good guideline that I think any artist or band should aspire to.
I would like to think that I am working hard to meet the criteria that that Derek has set in this post.
I am having a major problem with the conversations going on around the internet about these kinds of topics. I don't give a flying x about what anyone should be aspiring to, I don't think that 'everyone' should start a blog, I don't think 'all bands' should start labels and I don't think all 'artists' should spend their time becoming marketing gurus.
Unless they want another career in promoting other bands, running labels, or getting into PR.
Yes, we all have more skills than we did, but the last thing I want to tell a great songwriter is to read a book by Seth Godin.Otherwise I'd sign Seth Godin as an artist to my label.
Go out and live. Write some songs about it. Report back. I'll take care of business, and try and keep it real. If you can't do that, goodbye. I have enough problems trying to do that myself. It's really xxx hard.
I'm sick of semantics and I've only been blogging 4 months. Perhaps it's not for me.
One other thing I would like to add:
On the opposite side of my last post.
A while back I went to see a friends "new" band play their first gig. Prior to this gig I had only heard their demos. I was not terribly impressed with the demos.
But when I saw them live, I was blown away. There was a chemistry to them and they had that undefinable "it" factor that people always talk about.
I went to a few more of their gigs just to be sure, and each one only re-enforced my opinion about them. I remember telling my friend that if I wasn't so busy handling my own business as a musician and artist, I would offer to manage them (I was that knocked out by them). I was definitely a fan though.
What finally happened to them?
Nothing.
The Lead guitarist and Lead singer who where the centerpiece of the groups onstage chemistry where always at odds with each other and fought a lot.
The lead singer's unwillingness to want to protect her voice and unwillingness to greet fans that came to see them also hurt them.
The band's Rhythm guitarist (my friend) was the level headed one and the peace maker for everyone in the band. He said that it became harder and harder to settle their differences. Add to the fact that the lead guitarist had a history of never finishing anything he started and sure enough he quit first over creative differences.
They tried to go on with a different lead guitarist, but it wasn't the same. The chemistry, or "it" factor was gone. Eventually they just faded out.
Who knows, had they existed in the 70's things might have worked out differently for them. Maybe a label would have discovered them, the lead guitarist (not wanting to mess with the meal ticket) would have stayed. Someone at the label would have baby-sat them through what would have probably been some very destructive trials, and through it all maybe they would have created astounding music.
But this is not the 70's anymore and I don't think this works anymore.
Can't say I agree with your list either Derek. I actually agree with Julian Moore's assessment. I think all of the artists and bands that fulfill all your criteria are boring as hell. Yeah, they're an industry man's dream, but I can tell you that band most likely won't make interesting or lasting music. Sounds like Daughtry might do well on your label.
And I guess, if you're making money off them, alright. If that's your goal, great. But then, I have to hear their sorry songs all over the place thanks to you and that isn't cool.
I've recently discovered Guided By Voices' stuff, and THAT is a band that bucks conventions and makes lasting music. Same with Zappa, Captain Beefheart, They Might Be Giants, Ween, and a little band called The Beatles (although, they admittedly had major label support behind them from the beginning). I could name many many others.
I think the most important thing is to just love the music you make, love making it, don't rely on managers, labels and producers to do everything/anything for you, and NEVER give up. If you're any good, you'll find some success eventually. And this is coming from someone with no real success at all to speak of yet. But I wouldn't change a thing because I love what I do.
Write music for the people. Ever think how big some songs are to you on a personal level and why? Think about those mega huge bands like Led Zepplin etc. Their music is bigger then they are. Look at Hendrix, his music has been around longer then he lived. My goal this year is to write nothing but simple catchy tunes for the people, not me. I'm going to do things different this time around. I'm going to try and write songs that are bigger then me. Perhaps record labels just might want to take them on.
I've written songs about me and my life for too long and I don't think people relate to it. I sat down a few weeks ago and wrote something I would never have written. Emailed the MP3 to several friends that know my normal stuff and all of them told me it was the best I'd ever done to date, I even got a Wow! So it makes me think that I should do some things as expected by the industry (not all of it, just some) for the fact that more people will relate to it. Everybody wants to belong.
I've driven around going to and from work actually thinking of all these great bands that I know of that are still unknown and if I had the money to back them up and advertise them, then I started thinking that maybe these bands connect with me but not everybody else, soooo
I think, it's great to be able to be true to your music and to keep the level of integrity that you had the first time you picked up a scrap paper and wrote those lyrics.
As you evolve as an artist/band you need to keep focussed on those elements that first got you all together jamming and rehearsing those rough inspirations that later on developed into your own material.
I also believe that there should be more respect out there for multi-talented individuals (I have been told I am one of those), who not only can be ok at singing, but can write, arrange and produce their own music, play one or two or three instruments to a good degree and have the lateral vision of music as an organic mix. Of course others would always criticize your work, but doesn't that happen to the most notorious bands in the world? Of course it does. And it happens to painters, soccer players, businessmen etc. JUST KEEP FOCUSSED!
My 2 cents,
Andy
Hi Derek good to here from you and the comments being made.I'm just an independent artist with my own label in New Zealand and have come to the conclusion that unless your good lookin and under 35 big labels are not interested in you anyway even if you are very good so i carry on doing the best that i can.We have a big problem with getting air play from radio and im the top country artist in this country it seems like unless i change my gendre and i have nothing against any other that it just wont be played.So keep up the good work selling my cds and maybe one day someone big will listen to them and maybe take me on a tour.
I find that the greatest atribute a Band can have is, apart from musical ability of course, is the ability to be a democracy, including the withdrawal of idea's the individual realy believes in, on a democratic basis, if you have a Band that cant do this without serious row's, storming off, or even violence, then it has some chance of surviving.
The previuos comment should say can, instead of can't !!
C'mon Derek! I absolutely applad what you've done with CD Baby but a record company based upon these principles would the elitist, dull, conservative and about as rock 'n' roll as James Blunt...
Like they say, it's like punk never happened.
Whoops - typo alert! Would you mind making it read "applaud"?
Thanks!
When the Beatles went to play in the US for the first time, an interviewer asked John Lennon if they were going to do the same act as they had been doing in England. Lennon answered: "We don't have an act, we just do what we do."
What about adding this to the 'show' and 'perfect band'...
As usual, the list you create leaves out the music that I have been creating and performing since 1982. My original jazz group Cat's A Bear has been in existence for 26 years, so I guess we pass the longevity test. We have kept the group together during times when we have no gigs, and times when we are all busy with everything else. You will NOT find a more dedicated group of musicians.
However, the "vocal performance" is not a part of our sound (which immediately puts us off of any real serious label interest in these days and times), and the "arrangements" are often the result of true jazz musicians playing spontaneously.
We have created a strong following over many years despite being at the edge of everyone's expectations of music by promoting ourselves, creating kick-ass live shows, and producing our own music since no-one else will.
Derek offered the first real help with CD Baby, so that we could get our product over to the world.
However, jazz is now less than 2 percent of the world market share - which means that labels don't give a crap about it.
Thus - once again we would be out of the picture if we did not do it ourselves, and because of the music that we play, we can never make your list.
Of course, we choose it ourselves, so we get what we get. However, the world is deprived of a lot of alternative music because the profit margin is not "Jamiacan vacation ready". If you want dedicated, non-greedy, professional musicians who create something truly unique, Cat's A Bear is your band. If you want lots of profits from record sales in a superfical market, then you will obviously look elsewhere.
Peace out to all musicians, and a special nod to those performing instrumental jazz, the poor child in the room.
peace - f
What if I say that all the criteria you stated apply to me? However, this would not solve the problem if you couldn't sell my music.
WHAT I WOULd ADD IS ME A GOSpel RAPER, INDustry HERO MINistry MATerial . MUSic IS CHANGIng BACK TO ITS CORE WHIch IS GOD WHO IS LOVE , HELp , A GUIde , AND PATIents GO TO MYSPace. COM/ COGTHATHRILLR. WHEn YOU SUPport GOOd YOU SHAll HAVE GOOD SUPport YOU.
Being visually arresting with a defined, unique recgnisable style - music is primarily promoted through visual mediums these days
Nice one Derek, for all of it - the spiritual and the musical, the ideas and the empowerment. Please don't fall out of the sky, unless you feel you must..
I agree with most of what people have written here, even some of the opposing views, and especially Julian Moore at the top of this thread re. your 'label' - which I also agree you already have in CD Baby... and it's criteria for acceptance are the total opposite of what you have proposed ! Which means I, who fulfill very few of the 'requirements' you mooted, though aspiring to many of them, can be a part of it. For which, thank you.
At the risk of being impertinent, do you yourself have no addictions ? if so I am envious, and perhaps sorry for you, in equal measure ..
For my own part, I think Muse is all that matters.
I meant this to be a really short post, sorry..
Good luck y'all.
Mike
If an artist possessed all the qualities mentioned by Derek and all the other folks on this list, why would they NEED a record label? What would a record label truly offer them? I think it would be more profitable for an artist to ask themselves what qualities a record label needs to possess before they would even talk to them, and what they really expect to get out of that partnership. If an artist can't answer that, they should stay away.
I'm not convinced that signing to a record label is the holy grail that most people ought to be seeking after. People who are record-label material (who meet many of the requirements mentioned above) tend to get approached by labels, not the other way around. And again, when that happens, the artist should ask themselves "what are YOU going to do for me?"
Thanks, all!
And here I thought CD Baby WAS MY Label....
cdbaby.com/calanbyrd\
If you start a Record Label I think that I will join your artist catalogue becaue on all this time knowing CD Baby, I know you all are honest and great people on this bussiness.
Hi Derek,
Many years ago my grandfather had a trucking business collecting those old milk cans. He had about 4 trucks and employed all his sons. One day he saw a new stainless steel milk truck go by him on the highway. He immediately knew he was seeing the future of milk collecting and that his future was going to face great upheaval. That's what has happened to the music business as you well know. Great upheaval and confusion. The majors are looking at that new milk truck equivalent and nervously pondering their future in the music business. Many musicians are basically lost. With the entire music industry in some sort of dark matter transition there is little direction for most. It's kind of like the Titanic disaster when it was every man for himself.
It's basically a mess Derek! However...on the bright side, I see you as a glimmer of hope. You have vision. You have stamina and a genuine love for music! The music industry needs new leadership. People who have honesty and integrity like you, a proven track record of success. Someone who has the guts to make a difference. A word of caution though...it wouldn't be easy and it would be an ocean fraught with dangers. The timid need not apply!
Well, a "label" presupposes one entity owning the interests of another. In the digital age more and more artists are becoming free agents. They control their own fate. They are free to fail or succeed by their own wits and talents. So while there are more mediocre bands and artists out there than ever before, each has a historically unprecedented opportunity to be heard. Labels are anachronistic, and there no longer is any reason to subjugate oneself to them. All it takes is courage, perseverance, luck and a bit of talent.
Ok, go find those guys, but leave room for the non-all-inclusive act as well, e.g. In my own mind and with luck a few others I write very good lyrics, pretty good music and play barely adequate guitar. I'm 55 and I ain't gonna sound like Keb' Mo', Carlos Santana or Eric Clapton in the forseeable future. I'm also not getting prettier. There are reasons I can't tour and even live gigs present obstacles. So do I land in the dumpster with all the dopers, drama queens, slackers and whatnot? The industry is changing as we're all reminded by the minute by the press and "insiders." Moreover no one seems to truly have a handle on where it's going to end up. Given that, shouldn't we make sure that all the bases are covered? Have the lead acts signed up, but have the support acts there too--the guy that just writes the songs, the band that just performs, the lone vocalist, etc, etc. What do you think? Is there room for specialists in your company?
JPW
When you use a formula to pick "the next big thing" don't be surprised if all you get is "paint by numbers artist"!
Labels make safe picks, which means safe music, we've lost the soul and passion of real artist...Being a "Baby Boomer", I'm part of the largest music buying consumer group,and the most over looked consumer... the "Teen Music" catagory was created by my generation! Because of "Idol" mentality we are told ALL artist must be under 25, be attractive, sing tenor...ect..., So long Bob Dylan, so long Joe Crocker, so Long Mama Cass, so long Johnny Cash,Willie Nelson,Brian Wilson,The Clash,Tom Waits...and just about every real artist you can name!
I don't think the state of the music industry is based on "poor economy"...I think it's based on poor selection of non formula artist! The "Baby Boomer" has 3 primary choices in buying music in a store these days...#1. Country music that's been given a pop make over (Which is where a lot of us have resisted but turned), #2.Teen/dance/hip-hop/club (Want to feel creepy, be 40 and buy the latest Britney or Lil' Wayne CD!) or #3. Oldies (including reunions of Older artist) which we are starved for, just look at the sales of the latest Eagles CD, Any Beatles collection,Elvis' #1's, the Beach Boys "Sounds of Summer" collection(-triple paltnium) or the last Fleetwood Mac reunion...the problem is the labels never looked or promoted any one to "fill the shoes" of these artist in the late 70's....and after disco and the joke that is metal (Spinal Tap killed every serious thought of metal music since it's release).....The biggest feed back I get from people at our shows is "Why don't the Record Companies put out this kind of music?...Music that I can listen too!" (People between 30 and 50).
I have to disagree with two things Jody Whiteside listed...(#1)about being "beyond good on their main instrument" , it has been my experience that really great instrument players are weaker in other areas, such as songwriting....they spend so much time learning new riffs or they fall short on other parts of making an overall sound...Bob Dylan could hardly play 3 chords when he recorded his first songs...heart should always come first!
and (#8) "be so compelling that other songwriters will want to work with you"....Let's face it, if your at that point, Labels are knocking at your door! I've had the chance to work with and perform with a few "name" players, and picked up some advice from a few...which I'll add on here...
(1). "You play well enough and sing well enough, don't wait for someone else to record your songs, do it youself...because until you do it, no one else will!"...John Thomas Griffin of "Cowboy Mouth" told me this after jammin' with me on one of my songs, which lead to me recording my first demo.
(2). "Don't play music because you want a hit or a record deal...play music because you love music and want to make a living at it! If you can make a living playing music, than isn't that the real dream?...You can have a hit and a year later be back looking for a job....if you work at making music your job,than you get the dream, with or with out the hit or the label!".....Told to me by my good friend Jim Ford (manager/agent) who has worked with "The dB's,REM,Peter Holsapple, Richard Hell and a ton of other groups".
Following that advice has gotten me this far....if I never get a hit or a record deal, I'm making "My Music"....and living out my musicial dreams, recording a tribute I wrote for Beach Boys drummer Dennis Wilson, I was invited to the 2005 "historic landmark dedication" of the band, and a VIP guest of the family...my latest CD (self produced and distributed) includes a guest performance with original Beach Boy David Marks, and two members of the 60's group "The Rip Chords"....as well as getting to play my songs live with a great group of friends (my Band)!
I hope you all find the song that brings you home!
Jim Morrison. Precisely. One icon substantially undermines your template, Derek. Alas genius and self-destruction are often two sides of the same platinum record. The mere act of fishing with a template guarantees that you'll capture all the folks trying diligently to fit the prevailing template, which is to say the consummately un-original which is to say, the Last Big Thing. Tomorrow's genius lives outside the template of corporate 'imagination' although he will no doubt serve as the Poster Boy for the Next Big Template. We will suffer all his wannabes soon enough.
The only template to apply is the broken template. Nothing worth having is reducible to its constituent parts or ingredients.
norm ball
Dear Derek:
You would not sign me to your record label, and I wouldn's blame you one bit. A record label would be looking for artists who wand fame so bad that they will go anywhere and everywhere, do anything, and stick to that specific goal no matter what. There are some musicians, however, who would become very despondent if they became famous and rich doing something they truly hate, or something that is more related to Show Business than it is to Music. I'm speaking of music in strictly its aesthetic sense -- the drama that its notes, melodies, harmonies and rhythms create when people listen to it ; people who care absolutely nothing about "show," dress, looks, stage antics, lighting, image, etc.
There are musicians who are satisfied to make a decent living that enables them to marry, have children, buy a house, send their children to college, and store some funds away for their old age. This can be done, and such musicians can and do lead a very charmed and happy life -- putting family first, and using music and career as a way to enhance their family.
"Success" is not about money or fame. One is successful when one has succeeded in accomplishing one's intended goal. To become famous at something that one does not like, is not success, no matter how much fame or fortune one acquires from it. As a matter of fact, such empty success may even be what was behind some "artists" attempts at suicide, or drug abuse.
RCA used to lose money on its Classical music albums. They would use a portion of the revenues they derived from Pop music to fund their Classical music. They did this because it made them feel good, I was told. Not all record label owners have the same goals; some want to make a much money as possible, and others want to simply do very well -- and do something edifying, beautiful, beneficial.
There are so many jokes about Jazz musicians, all of which center around their lack of money. Jazz musicians are not failed Rock musicians. They love Jazz, and are happy to appeal to its relatively smaller (and more discriminating )audience. Why? Because the Jazz audience is largely made up of people who understand its aesthetic, and could care less about the players' "stage act."
The only thing that I might add is that those who choose to appeal to a relatively smaller market, such as Jazz players do, ought not to complain about the meagre funds that they derive. Actually, I have never heard them complain about money. Mostly, they are disappointed in the fact that more people do not understand, or care to learn, about the beauty of Jazz. But God sometimes gives only one gift to some individuals. Playing real music, such as Jazz and Classical music, is already an enormous gift.
Always write music for your biggest fan and critic - yourself. If you can listen to your own stuff literally hundreds of times without getting sick of it, you're a success, others with an affinity for what you're interested in will follow, especially with the growth of the Internet. If you're in it for the money, and hoping to be chased down by the big labels, you should probably rethink things. Besides, with digital distribution taking the torch from traditional channels, who really needs a big label with all of the associated baggage?
In a way, it's like if you have your own label you want the people on it to live up to your own standards , which is hard because very rarely to you find someone that does. This is where you must decide if you want to do it for yourself or for other people.
I'm so happy you've finally decided to sign me, Derek!
I'm everything you've described AND more!
You're really make'em think, buddy. As a former Nashville pavement-pounder of the early 1980s [Thank God I was a quick Learner] turned Independent label owner, I understand exactly where you're coming from.
I think the list is great.
The one issue I could see is this one:
"vocal performance is not just perfect but head-turning, striking"
That is perfect if the band/artists uses vocals.
However, many artists create music without any vocals, or at least without "lead vocals".
Naturally, I think I meet all of the requirements...I like to think I sound great, look great, perform great when given the opportunity,and I have worked very hard for many years with no plans of giving up, etc...All which you list above, except that a lot of my music has no vocals or only "background" choral-type vocals.
Take the entire Ambient genre for example, perhaps only a handful of the artists use any vocals at all, and even less have anything which could be called a "lead vocal".
Neoclassical is another genre where vocals are very rare.
Some acts even have full bands which rarely use vocals such as the psychedelic jazz/rock band Tortoise.
just kind of scanning through some of the response (S) and looking at the guidelines for determining who to sign, I cant think of any people that I consider great artists even have one of those qualities hahaha, eccentric unstable, self destructive, unpredictable, overly emotional, prone to drama, sometimes refuse to practice their respective instruments, showing up for photos looking like something the dogs drug up to the house. maybe the eccentric flavor is what draws us to the great artists. The best music I have listened to was improvised, raw and gritty the kind of music that flows from the heart and soul and just is, you cant explain why. Rare have been the times I have heard music like that, and usually some smokey bar somewhere in the absolute middle of nowhere on open mike night. Go figure,,, maybe music just can not be tamed and canned and made perfect and somewhere in that inperfectness is where real music and talent lives wild, free and untameable.
Hi Derek,
While in the process of applying for a doctoral degree, I took a break and checked my email to discover "If I had a record label, would you be signed to it?" Immediately, Steven Covey's The 8th Habit came to mind . . . . Consequently, I also read through your other bits of information/knowledge - definitions of "control" and discovered that you cited Covey's 7 Highly Effective Habits - you're a smart man that is always moving forward despite fears, anxiety - The 8th Habit addresses the importance of value-value driven leadership. The 8th Habit is to "Find Your Voice and Inspire Others to Find Theirs." You are doing that!
Back to the "To confidently invest in an artist, I'd want to see ". . . . you only have to look in your back yard at the veteran jazz artists that have spent a lifetime honing their craft, living, breathing, telling their life stories through the jazz medium without the use of props, big sound systems - jazz in its purest form . . . . I know and have played with many of these artists that have gone unrecognized, as a matter of fact; I'm currently working with a video producer that wants to tell the story of the many jazz musicians that have had to carve out a living, establishing themselves in other careers in order to sustain their real passion - the love of playing jazz music. At 50 years old and after 40 years of playing drums, I decided that no one was going to recruit me and take me on the road to success, so, I produced a Christmas jazz album that speaks for itself. The process of producing this album taught me some of life's greatest lessons: the importance of modeling trusworthiness and integrity, first seeking to understand by really listening to people, then communicating in a way so as to be understood. The Greeks had 3 words for this: Ethos, Pathos, and Logos.
Didn't read all of these but I whole-heartedly agree w/ Julian Moore's post. Right on.
"band members don’t need unreasonable amounts of money to perform (can perform profitably) "
I am unclear as to what the point is. Value is determined by what people are willing to pay. The music industry is no longer just "feast or famine" but has evolved to also include everything in between. I think artists should seek what is equitable.
I would like signing to your label!!!! ;)
I'm from the "Old School" .....back in the 60's and 70's......my era.......there was an explosion of music , from heavy psycodelic(sp) , Frigid Pink, to soft rock, Seals and Croft. All the music had one thing in common.....IT WAS ALL ORIGINAL. Every group had it's own distinct sound and image, immediatally identified by the fans. One more thing they all had in common.......substances that altered their normal thinking patterns. In my opinion.......to be creative, you have to extend yourself beyond your normal , everyday thinking patterns. Be it meditation, alcohol, or a banned substance. The sacrafice for the art has been exampled throughout history. Motzart, Poe, Van Gough, ......Hendrix, Morrison, Bon Scott.....and on and on.....
To be great, means doing things the "normal" person would never do. Including going to that place where you are your most " creative "
I'm afraid that as a song-writer, performer I'd not get on any (label's) 'agency's list. This is why.
The musicians on stage with me are more important to me than the audience is.
It's more important to me that the musicians on stage with me are 'into' my tunes and progressions/grooves and lyrics, than the audience is.
If the Band is having a good experience through the material they're playing the audience will 'get-that' and enjoy the stuff and themselves too.
The guy's I hire to perform with are all fine musicians so if they like the stuff that's all the approval I need.
I record my material not because I ever expect (Or want) to become a star or famous. I record my material because I'd hate myself if I didn't. ...'cause I believe the tunes are good and until they're recorded they don't exist. Signed, Capital B
I sort of agree with most of this list -- *except* for the very first two items, which I rather strongly disagree with:
(1) every song has been absolutely improved repeatedly - every note/syllable crafted to be the best it can be
(2) vocal performance is not just perfect but head-turning, striking
arrangement is everything it can be to bring out song/vocal
The importance of that stuff is (I think) genre-based, and in the music I pursue, and that has changed my life, it's relatively unimportant. Far more important to me is the energy and fusion of the overall band's performance. Wasting time microscopically tweaking and individual part's notes/syllables distracts from that overall goal.
In the music I like and mix, I intentionally junk-up the vocals. I push the vocals down in the mix so all the other instruments can come through at least as prominently. My music has to avoid a "tyranny of the vocals", because all the instruments need to have a voice.
I know bands who follow item (1) to a "t", reworking/remixing their songs over and over, laboring over every note and syllable -- and because of that they never play live (item 6, right?), they never write new songs, they never grow their fan base. I've heard an anecdote about one Jimi Hendrix song (forget which one) where the initial demo was incredible, but the "real" recording with a whole band tried and tried and tried to recapture the energy & sound and never could -- so they just released the initial demo anyway. So you've got to know when you've caught something energetic and passionate and special, far more than reworking stuff over and over.
Also, if you need a "perfect" performance (item 2), you're going to be permanently frustrated and unhappy with all the funky, wierd, unique, not great sound systems you'll be playing at from week to week. I know so many bands who pursue that and are keenly unhappy ever time they get offstage anywhere, and as a fan it's an enormous drag to experience that.
So I actually think that items (1)-(2) are actually detrimental to growing an indie rock band, learning your stagecraft, playing out, sharing your positive energy, and connecting with fans. Maybe if you're purely a recording-only business then that's a different story. But as an artist my own primary goal is to connect with people through a live performance.
Hm... reading the above thoughts, Derek, mixed emotions and states of mind tried the texture of my already hurt self in this savage and oversaturated business, lol... My own experiences - through constant rejections and ignorance, has tought me that every musician/songwriter should learn as much about this trade just as much he or she would like to gain control over his/her talent and estate. GO INDEPENDENT!!! Learn the business and use all the new tools which are out there for us regarding production/promotion/marketing/sales...
Beside that I also have a constantly growing market in Romania. Playing about 70-80 gigs/year and selling around 4000 units of each title it gives us a pretty business figure around the year. If you ar interested and have the ludicious thrill to help me in developing a basically virgin market, you are welcome to join me. We have a lot of talented youngsters with no business mean whatsoever. They need directions and lucrative models 
Believe me, it works!
Derek, if you are serious about the list above I might have what you are looking for
Join me!
Best thoughts,
AG Weinberger - The Transylvanian Guitar Man
I tend to agree with Daniel in that the main question that Derek's article should bring to the forefront is "What IS a record label?" With more and more responsibility potentially in the hands of musicians, there are two major market actions that will/are happening: 1. traditional corporate labels will shrink, conglomerate, and eventualy fall by the wayside; making the way for indepenent beneficiaries to subsidize performers on a much smaller scale. Think of the d'Medici's of Florence (look it up). 2. As most musicians (keep in mind that I am speaking as one) are fairly irresponsible when it comes to balancing anything from checkbooks to their everyday diet, the glut of superfluously mediocre performers will plummet as the corporate focus on single-fed sales makes way for more album-based art, which again takes a more responsible performer to pull off. And yes, I realize that Guns N Roses's "Appetite for Destruction" is a great album made by a perpetually drunk/high/mentally unstable group of degenerates (at the time); there is always room for anomalies.
All of this makes it an exciting and scary time in the industry (depending on what side you are on). And although I realize that the downfall of the industry labels into a more grass-roots based art movement will mean much lower returns for musicians, I believe that the integrity of the artform will become vibrantly reenergized.
One more site I'd like to mention.......... cdbaby.com/cd/vinylrhino........our originals.
I have no band, I'm alone... therefore there is no place for me in your label...
But I have a couple of ideas - you should be looking for not just new arrangement but for completely new sounds, new instruments and new images.
Also if you completely rely on band/composer as a person (you mentioned a lot of behavioral things then you should have more acceptance of their musical experiments. I mean for example I love to work with partner and friend but I don't need anybody to tell me what must I do.
Amen and a little bit more: For some of us, making music is an avocation, not a calling. We may know we are too old and fat to ever become big stars, but we are delighted to have a good crowd at our local coffeehouse, and we love it when someone tells us, "Your song changed my life," or "My kids won't quit playing your CD." We may actually believe that it's all right to perform once a month and sing in the kitchen the rest of the time. We make music because music moves us and creating heals us, not because we expect to make money from it. For those of us in this category, CD Baby is a wonderful, wonderful service, one that allows us to make our songs available to anyone without demanding a huge investment, and allows us to travel without carrying a box of CDs in the trunk. Whatever you do, Derek, please don't abandon us part-timers.
I think its a good idea! Nothing should stop a man from going as far as he can go! Ofcourse, industry sounding music has completely run the business into the ground, but that makes the real music, or not so perfect sounding music stand out. Honestly, my music has been with cdbaby since it was created, and I will admit to my music not being as perfect as it could be, but as perfect as it could get for me at the time.
But as the months grow older, so does my talent, and people in positions like Derek Sivers, and etc. will open the door for someone in my position.
Maybe I wouldn't be considered for the label, because of quality, or lack of knowledge, but maybe I will be selected for style, or potential. Either way, Ill never stop trying to go as far as I could go!
If an artist had all of the qualities you desire, they would have nothing to write about.
Hi Derek, there's no mention of age in your list and I think that plays a huge part in whether a record company might consider you a good investment. Young unpolished carefree diamonds that can be unleashed, let off the lead with some industry dollars and connections tend to shine through. It's worth a punt even though many are self destructive. The music may be awful but a good write up in a music rag like NME ands a scandal or two will go along way to insuring a good return on some studio time, a plugger and some advertising.
I'm looking for some investors to get Tenderhooks really powering so feel free to tour our website and read some album reviews. I'm scandal free at the moment!
i guess i'd make it...
How about Jazz?
I think that many jazz musicians (including myself) fit Derek's bill, with the exception of vocals.
How can we apply this concept to jazz, when pretty much every record label drop their jazz artist and booking agents are reluctant to take even cutting edge emerging jazz bands?
If I was a younger person with a real future in music I would certainly choose Julian's label over Derek's. Julian's first comment is wise and informed, and ultimately his strategy would also result in finding the more creative and profitable acts. Derek's real brilliance is in the area of digital distribution, and I think we all appreciate his contribution there. That does not mean he would be equally good at artist management, development, or good at predicting which artists might do well in the ever-changing market. Team effort is the thing in music as in film, and putting together a good team is absolutely required. Not everyone involved even needs to have the same level of commitment, though it makes things easier. Sure, at least some folks on the team have to be absolutely detail oriented and anal compulsive, others great at social networking and so forth, but most of the time there is at least one brilliant, mercurial, and flawed person (aka Morrison) who makes the whole thing possible.
Great articles Derek and some great thoughts here!
If I had a record label, I would only search for authentic artists.
I understand some comments of other people here but in some way I
disagree with terms about playing skills, vocal performances, great photos.. all of that can be worked out..
Authentic energy and strenght is what real artists have, even if it's in traces, not completely developed - it could be and it should be developed..
And if I had a record label I would search for those kind of artists and try to keep them focused on developing their music and keep them diligent.
Everything else is business...
The Doors had a great chemistry live and they were authentic.. Jac Holzman surely did the right thing.
Take another examples : Bob Dylan, Neil Young.. etc..
Thanks for your articles, keep them coming!
Have a nice week!
I think that all creative success depends on what your idea of success is. I believe that success takes a lifetime. If it stops then we have not begun
to achieve the utmost of our lives. I personally have been studying the
ways of achievement of my gifts or talents and each day I am communicated new ideas or ways of advancing them. I know that if we keep trudging and receiving knowledge, and promote by sharing the knowledge with others, we'll land right at the point we're suppose to. I can't say that man's way of promoting always is fair, however we are filled with the abilities to choose fairness. I believe each musician or artist has a
individual way of choosing success and the way to achieve it. It's like a
metamorphosis, taking creativeness to different levels. On each level we
as artists share the experience, in our own individual way. Money is only a
temporary motivator, however it can transition us further, if we use it for that purpose. Is it cars, jewelry, clothing, or is it mansions etc... that propel us in peace to exhibit sucess or is it divine creation (God)? I am going to continue to acquire whatever it takes to share creativity, because I love what I do? No matter what position I'm in.
Great articles Derek and some great thoughts here!
If I had a record label, I would only search for authentic artists.
I understand some comments of other people here but in some way I
disagree with terms about playing skills, vocal performances, great photos.. all of that can be worked out..
Authentic energy and strength is what real artists have, even if it's in traces, not completely developed - it could be and it should be developed..
And if I had a record label I would search for those kind of artists and try to keep them focused on developing their music and keep them diligent.
Everything else is business...
The Doors had a great chemistry live and they were authentic.. Jac Holzman surely did the right thing.
Take another examples : Bob Dylan, Neil Young.. etc..
Thanks for your articles, keep them coming!
Have a nice week!
sounds exactly like me.
no, but really, i like what you say about it needing to be someone who works tirelessly, and loves it... like ANYTHING, its the recipe for success. I have to admit, I get down and I would rather be off with a backpack in India or learning flamenco dance... but the music is a bug, it bites you... if we can only maintain our faith that its all worthwhile, its just a satisfying, joyful thing to sink your teeth into. until your 50 and have no house or family, eh
Hello Derek,
You are a contradiction to your label requirements...in CD Baby you have offered up the venue for all of those that are independently minded and have chose to pursue music on a level that best fits their lifestyle, artistic and professional capabilities. That is the beauty of your format at CD Baby. In your vision of label, few will fulfill the requirements of your formula, which even if they were fulfilled, certainly will not guarantee the success of the art it self (successful art? A subjective reality...certainly in the artist’s mind as they continue to search, or the audience in seeking a connection) I would assume your label is also seeking primary market success, because most labels in the end only survive if they are selling large quantities of material, and that is done through market interpretation, saturation and at times manipulation (wow, what happened to the art?).
I viewed a decent Frank Zappa interview on you-tube not long ago. Zappa said that the industry really went down hill sometime in the 70’s, when many labels employed an academic version of cultural “hip” in their “scouting”… trying to pigeon hole what direction the youth movement would , or should go in, or in other words what the “long hair marketers” deemed as the hip art and culture of the day. Zappa simply stated that the industry was much better off when cigar chomping executives, that had little knowledge or understanding of the youth culture, would just pick up new talents and give them a shot (most exec’s of the day were not savvy as say, a Sam Phillips, or Ahmet Ertegun…to say the least) But this is all about history, which will re-invent it’s self another time, and place, and you are more then likely aware of much of this and other random thoughts on the subject. As a label I guess your formula would be boring in my view, but with CD Baby, you have been mixed into the on going linage of the industry, and I have to say from a very positive point of origin as far as I can see. I have discovered several excellent artists and many great tunes and CD’s with CD Baby, and suspect there are hundreds more for the choosing.
Art is not necessarily a profession, but it is always an expression, first & foremost, and it is not just borne of planning, hard work, diligence, and or suffrage...sometimes it just happens. I will say though, that if and when it does become too "comfortable" it's inner gestalt will morph on it's own, that is why progressive human nature continues to seek it out, it is constant change, anyone and everyone's story…but, if it ain’t organic, it ain't very real.
I dont think such list are necessary. There are so many people who have the image, potential, and skills to shine, but cant reach out the right people. They have to be given the opportunity, by outshining other artist with their stunning music. Take me for example, i record and perform hiphop/rap music. But i know for a fact my music has never been heard of... Where im from ( coatesville, PA , currently deployed to IRAQ ) people have a different stlye then what i usually rap about so by being creative, a lot more people clung to me verses them because i was different and sounded good while doing it. Based on that list, if you made a record deal, i would not sign to it.. With fame and fortune comes more responsibility and less desire to care about rules.. its sort of like a power complex thing. But yes this is interesting, check my music out and sign me though.. i love you.
fraze
Hi Derek,
all of your points are right and for sure helpfull . . . but all secondary!!
What really and only counts is : does the music reach the soul and feeling of the listener. If that's the case...then you might look at your list and check what else is there. Your list is basicly a collection of facts to make your, as a recordcompany, and the musicians life easier. And yes, in an ideal situation every point you came up with should be there , but in real life it isn't if you deal with really talented and gifted musicians. Somebody who can create masterpieces in music cannot think in rational ways in most cases. The most famous examples are Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Janis Joblin, (and yes) Curt Cobain aso aso.. It would be your job and the managers job to create the right environment for those people to lead them to success.
And I think THAT's the hardest job in the world ( see Jimi Hendrix who was pushed too much). This job can put you in many conflicts with yourself constantly and that's why you probably don't want to form a rec.-company.
If you follow only your points you might have bands with some success but never the real deal. That would be way too easy.
But in our fast times we're already happy if somebody matches your points and again they're not wrong.
You know anything I could say has been said already. LOL
I think your ideas have good points but aren't realistic. I know I sure won't be able to sign to you. I mean I do what I can with what I have, which is not a lot.
A label should help the artist become better not expect the ultimate best from them day one.
I completely agree with you. Alot of labels sign bands that have no history, no experience and no musical depth.
LoNero is a completely self-sustaining band. We've toured, recorded and promoted grass-roots style for the last four years. We have a strong fan base that helps us promote. Our relationship with our fans is very important to us.
We've created our own genre of music that is growing legs (Guitarcore) and the fans love it. People are starving for something new because they are sick and tired of the same crap on the radio day after day.
We've had Apple Computers/Quicktime promote our last cd and were a featured band on iTunes. We did all this without label support or a manager. One thing alot of bands don't realize is that a label is nothing more then a big bank account with very very high interest rates who just happen to have a promotions department.
All bands need to be self-sufficient because you can't count on a label picking you up. We do everything in house because we know it will get done that way. Everything from cd design, web design, promotions, recording...etc.
We don't give a shit about a label as much as we care about what the fans say. That to us is the most important thing. We've even got a fan petition that one of our fans started to try to get us signed. With almost 1,000 signatures in less then a few months it speaks volumes. That to us is more important then some suit and tie at a record company trying to make this month's quota!
i suppose my hearty addiction to coca-cola and dark chocolate leaves me out...too bad. sounds like you've thought about this more than most label theorists.
what a label that would be!!! you took the words right out of my mouth.. (cause i would definitely love to have more artist on my own label) except the whole pecfectionistic stuff because i think if we're too, too, too critical and too too much of a perfectionist, we'll never finish or get anything done. but i see the level of what you're talking about so yes, the music has to be stellar!
I'm not sure that the aforementioned criteria is necessarily the recipe for great music.
Personally, I feel an artist's output and evolution is much more relevant than technical perfection.
If your priority is writing and recording music for the sole purpose expression, chances are, a bid from a good design company doesn't fit squarely into your budget... .you may have to learn how to use Illustrator and Photoshop in your spare time ;)
Sounds boring. Maybe you could take an E out of your name and call it Drek Records.
Take the "OCD" out of overworked music and you may find innocent brilliance... Being able to edit or produce yourself or another musician is a gift like crafting a well-written song, even knowing when not to over wrtie it. But over-thinking and over-rearranging music for the sake of sculpting is arbitrary and self-indulgent.
Bob Marley, Jimi Hendrix, Jeff Tweedy and Bob Dylan all possess beautiful imperfections in their "un-singerly" singing, but their phrasing is beautiful, like a naturally written poem or sonata.
Creating a collective of musicians, bands and performers without having to whore yourself to the mainstream music industry would be wonderful. I think you can do this or at least come close to it without having a bunch of plastic crap in the way of real musical art, but it does take money and connections... ATO, MERGE, LOST HIGHWAY are getting there... And I'm sure there are others.
Oh, and yes Derek, I'd be on your label... I'd enjoy making it simple while others made it hard... Yin and Yang. We could do a few gigs together like the old days... Peace, Juano Lippi
wow, really great article! I completely agree with all the criteria you've listed except for the one about having the arrangement being all it can be and the one about addicts. like you said, I want there to be improvement in each gig our band plays. however, I also feel as if you can never get the arrangement EXACTLY how you want it, not because of skill, but because there's always room for improvement. no matter how well I play a solo, I look forward to the next show when I'll nail it even better, etc.
The addicts one is tough too. Obviously, you want the entire band to be clean. But what if half the band fits all the criteria and the other half doesn't? It would seem unreasonable to ask the clean members to break away and find new sober bandmates. It also seems harsh that if a musician manages to fit all the criteria EXCEPT he smokes weed to refuse to let the band join the label
All the other points are right on target though and I completely agree!
David
Don't limit yourself. Some of my favorite artists were and are drug addicts. Their stage shows suck. But thats the beauty of art. This article sounds very obsessive-compulsive to me. If you want a good stage show, go see the backstreet boys, if you want art, go watch a Doors video where Jim Morrisson walks off the stage leaving the Keyboardist to cover the vocals and finish the show, now thats art!!!!!
Unfortunately, The music buisness is set up to use addictions (whatever they are) as a tool to keep there artist in line. I have a label and I lay down the law. You got in trouble, you get out of trouble. I have a screening processes and it has failed me several times. All I can offer are my companies resources and time. That's why you need a really good legal department. LOL
If you look for new music you might want to look at this (or listen to it)
http://www.myspace.com/ginaesegreto
cheers from Italy
Daniele
There's a band out there right now called Oh, Hush! doing everything the exact OPPOSITE way that you'd think. They put up a few songs, a logo, no pictures, no image, no band members... just an awesome myspace personality, lots of fan interaction, lots of myspace content, contests and fun... and they've become one of the biggest buzz bands in the country!! Oh, and the songs are fantastic!!
Check it out... great songs... but even greater marketing!!!
www.myspace.com/ohhushmusic
Derek,
I like the list. I think artists in this business should strive to be the best at what they do. Some of us are better musicians than others. Some of us are better singers. Some of us, better writers. Some of us understand how to upload JPEG/MP3 files better than others. We all have different strengths, weaknesses, addictions, flaws. Thats what makes music so boundless. people would do well to focus on their own path, rather than the path of others. Daughtry has made millions. Good for Daughtry. Do I like his music? No. Does he care what I think. No. Is he fulfilling his dreams just like every other human being is entitled to. Yes.
Do I think Daughtry is a lucky S>o>B............................you bet your a@# i do..............................................have a wonderful day in the neighborhood............
jpm
Derek -- Regarding the live shows thing, according to one of your other posts ("Never have a limit on your income"), you don't even GO to live shows. So, if you, Derek Sivers, ran a label, why would you put live performance skills on your list? Then, you would probably have to go to shows some of the time.
Thanks for sending the blog links. Interesting to read.
Well..I run my own label..and certainly your arguments are valid..but I have found there is a bit more to it than even you have suggested. I would even invite you, and all of the posters to come have a look.
This is how a label should approach this new market. I honestly believe that. Have a good read..
Hey Derek! First of all, THANK YOU SO MUCH for the opportunity you provide to feed my daughter every day. You have enriched my life in so many ways.
I think you would really enjoy Dogwood Speaks. It's a band out of Berkeley, CA with an unreal lead vocalist.
yes i would sign to your label.
God as my witness, you could add my name to the list of names to fit the criteria.
everything you wrote you look for is embodied in my temple.
i would add that the person i would want to sign has to believe in God, and Jesus, and tell me why, he, she, or they believe in them.
It’s a bunch of horse crap at the end of the day… whatever gets on the radio and into main stream media sells. It could be a 2 fingered piano player at the end of the day - if there is something unique that can be sold.
- it’ matters not the quality of the music so much or the recordings but the feelings / emotions that the artist can deliver with their songs. So I say that image, vocal quality, pretty people and pretty songs can be bland and boring, if we are talking about rock music anyway, it’s always been about flaws and never about American idol.
just my two sense
I Totally agree...
"...And I’m sure there are others..." Juano L.
Don't forget the old school one and only "wall of sound" Los Lobos...
They did their own thing since forever.
Props to Derek for being so engaged in this dialogue... a real king of correspondence.
The real question attached to this is what is the primary function of the label.
If it is purely money many of the factors make sense but I would spend more time gaining control of radio play, media and the other things that matter most. Then the most important feature in the artist would be their dynamic personality which could make the most of an opportunity if it arose. Budget is the main factor that inhibits people and their are likely many artists that while going nowhere on a limited budget would be bigger than Dallas if given access to resources.
On the other hand, if I were rich and money was not the most important thing, I would make discovering people that were creators of a deep magnitude the priority. People that were doing things that were possibly above the conceptual ability of many. Music like this is not easy to detect right away as it takes a devotion from the listener to understand what the music is doing and how it is possibly creating new universes while being great music.
Before electric guitar many music business people probably passed on feedback guitar and aggressive solos as they did not have their head firmly planted in that space.
If I were rich and ran a label I would be looking for people that were ground breaking in conception, likely not doing what is in the mainstream at present. They would have a special magic while creating their own musical language much as the composers of the past did.
Very interesting article, Derek, but I get tired just reading your list. I think often the artist head and the "plays well with others" head (ie, good at in-store appearances) are often not on the same shoulders. I'm a great jazz and blues performer (I think), as well as a jazz and blues songwriter, but offstage I'm an introvert and find interacting with others a little exhausting. My partner Jay Elfenbein is a brilliant bassist and gamba player who's pioneered the gamba as a jazz instrument (GambaDream) as well as founded a medieval group (The Ivory Consort), and composed in every genre--but he's a little intense, and his love of what he does is all about the music and not himself.
I have seen many musicians, conversely, who are incredible extroverts and extremely good at promoting themselves, even with music that is B-flat. And I think I'D be bored out of my mind promoting them. I've also played and done two CDs with an amazing jazz guitarist named Dan Rothstein who is eminently presentable, has worked in business, approaches getting gigs in a methodical way, and still hasn't had anywhere near the success that someone with his unique gifts should have had.
So I think the point of the man above who talked about the guys in the '60s who just threw money at a lot of different groups to see who'd hit is about right--success is a crapshoot, at least "artistically deserved" success.
That said, your site has been invaluable to me, not just as a place to put my CDs and get digital distribution, but as an inspiration. What the site did is make music about MUSIC again. And since I'm in China now and can't distribute my own CDs too well from here, especially my new CD of originals, your site really IS invaluable.
Wow what a great read, as today is my 36th birthday, I think I'm a bit too old to be worried about record labels but I must say that it's fantastic to be able to make my music available through something like CD Baby, even though sales are a bit slow (haven't sold the first one yet). I manage to sell CD's at gigs and make a living from gigs and teaching. If you put effort in and have an open mind I think you can make a living doing what you love.
Best wishes from Australia
Stu
http://cdbaby.com/cd/stumorrison
Hey Derek,
I agree with you actually on what and who regarding the quailifications to being signed to your (if i had a label). I have had a few people ask me to start a indie label actually. Or even take over one. My thoughts were my associaties had lost their mines with such crazy thinking!What do I know?????
However, being at this for a few moons I look at this so different now.
First of all the business has changed. I've changed. and the economy has certainly changed. And I still do this every day. I work a day job every day. I raise a family every day. I think of my music; the next moves to take, the next song, what to add to the show, what to take away, how to practice better, what to practice better, which radio campaign to choose, what distribution deal is best. All these things even while I'm sleeping run through my mind. Because this is what I love. If you are meant to be a muscian, you will find a way to do this. Regardless.
I've had a couple surgeries this year and still find a way to write music.I know a drummer who needs a ACL repaired and some spine work from a car accident.He's never missed a show!
So my thoughts are, do what you love and constantly be thankful you are where you are. ( while you learn how to get to the next level )
Stay true to yourself and your integrity. The business is fickle and ever changing. However, a good song is a good song. A good show performance is simply a good performance.
Love him or hate him, David Lee Roth once said these wise words," if you can't do it with one swinging light and an acoustic guitar, you don't need
to be up there". I agree.
Lastly, use your ability to help somebody. Live a good legacy behind.
Give something to somebody in need. It will be far more rewarding in the end...
Peace and well being to all,
Ricky Byrum- Burning Bush Production
www.rickybyrum.com
www.myspace.com/rickybyrum
www.shoutlife.com/rickybyrum
my friends in Maktub did something rather smart this past year.. they made their fans executive producers and kept full control of the music they produced, releasing the record without any debt to a label.. see this article in west coast performer:
http://www.performermag.com/wcp.cover.0711.php
well if i'd had a record label i would not try to have musicians ,with the focus of getting rich,nor famous(thats why i havent one..).i think the running behind the money is killing your love and your message.the audience don't wanna hear the best played and most perfect song,they wanna hear the most truthful voice and love for the music.look at the real genious(jimi hendrix,charlieparker etc)all of them where a desaster in business.if they got rich and famous after it was just a side effect.look at the world now!junkies of money!i know my band is small,we don't have copyrights,we don't sign anything,our website is bad.but after a year and a half all my pages in my passport are full,played in bad neighbourhoods and for the rich(who sometimes started to cry by feleling so poor after knowing us).many friends i feel a lot of love and most important i have the feeling that i'd never change my live with somebody and coud die luckily today.
be aware that money is a drug that makes you not sleep ,running around like a junky lieing to your friends.
if you want to make music just make music if you want to make money go to the printing industry,if you want power buy yourself a gun...
just be responsible for your acting.
for me the record label criteria are like the ones for an art gallery.taking the ones to get the most profit,eliminating the lazy.....but what for?to work with workaholics?whow much can you eat?whow you enjoy life?
listen to the world we have today...and forget the business!
I would want to be signed to your label. In doing so it makes a statement that I am a serious singer in the music industry. Plus, I'm no kid and have no time to waist. I need this NOW! Michael Kaye
Hey Derek. Love the blogs. You should start that record label, because I fit all the criteria of your artist requirements. We'd be huge lol! And I am definitely not boring lol it's funny to watch all the people whine about the things you say...
All the best, Chris
www.myspace.com/huffrock
I run a label and I do uphold most of those qualities to an extent. I've told many artists to redo the work they've submitted to me because the quality and soul wasn't there. Your idea of music is different from mine, but we both agree on work ethic and keeping a healthy image. I might think that doing black magic, mutilation, noise blasts and being a general ass is a good way to act toward fans/performances. Those are just a few qualities I look for in the music that my label is promoting, you might want some other image for the label your building but its basically the same thing.
As long as the artists believe in what they are doing and doing it well, then being a label boss is super easy when supporting what they do. When they start giving me material that seems so so, they we have a creative conference and talk about how to make it better or whats blocking their vision.
Most of the cats I work with are DIY, dirty, and completely insane. With my label, I wouldn't want them to be any other way.
two artists you would not sign:
The Beatles
Bob Dylan
not saying you are wrong in your qualifiers, honestly in the early sixties before either artist had been signed, i dont think i would have signed either myself, if i were in such a position to do so.
I'VE BEEN IN THIS BUSINESS FOR OVER 15 YEARS AND I'VE HAD GREAT SUCCESS THROUGH MY CAREER BEING A RECORD LABEL OWNER, THE ONLY THING YOU HAVE TO DO IS GET GREAT CONNECTION AND YOU ARE OWN YOUR WAY TO SUCCESS, IT MITE TAKE ALOT OF MONEY TO DO SO BUT IF YOU HAVE A HIT RECORD THINGS CAN CHANGE OVER NITE SPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE DONE THESE THINGS BY YOURSELF, YOU CAN MAKE MONEY ALL KINDS OF WAYS, LET ME EXPLAIN, SOUND TRACK DEALS, COMMERCIAL DEALS, PRODUCTIONS DEAL, AND EVEN PUBLISHING DEALS WHY BECAUSE YOU OWN YOUR OWN MASTERS THATS THE KEY IN THIS BUSINESS, YOU CAN REPACKAGE YOUR PRODUCT EVERY YEAR AND MAKE MONEY FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.. KNOWLEDGE
a commitment to art, rhythm , melody, emotion.The music has to come from the heart and soul first everything else falls in place.
i recon derek should decide on artists for his lable after pannel disscutions with a variety of people and hear all there views before making any deicion with signing an artist, different people like different music and have different taists and different reasons why they favor percific material, its very hard to make a decition based on what the popularity wants e.g if you are after a successfull band to take on or a popular group u need to make a group decition lol... i dunno but that is my 2 cents sure i would sign your lable
Zelus
the high knights
Actually, I think it's the flaws in the music that make it most exciting. The music I'm most excited about is on wax cylinders and 78s - where the sound was "crappy" and all the wrong notes had to stay.
It's wabi-sabi and that's what makes it exciting to me.
Wow! This is quite the E-mail!! Sounds like you are reaching out to others to find the direction you want to go? How would they know? It's like tasting food at the Buffet. All the food is out there from all the sources available from others, but you have to find the ones that excite your taste buds and want you clammering back for more! I couldn't find a "General" comment site, so why would I (my Band) deserve to be on YOUR Record label? When I was younger, 1970's, we played the songs we wanted to play the way we wanted to play them. We had thee best Blues/Rock Band in San Diego for a while and played mostly cover songs -our style. The Clubs were packed - the People Rocked - and came back for more where ever we played. But most Bands are like cars! The mileage piles up, the parts wear out and the get Junked!! 30 years later, me and my buddy Hugh got back together and made an all original, FUN CD. Everybody LOVES it! It gets great reviews!! But, nobody buys it? So I guess the BOTTOM LINE is, it doesnt't make $$$, so you probably - no, assuredly - would not sign us to your Record Label!! None the less, I'm working on a 2nd CD that's gonna be better than the first one, so look out masses! I'll have another one you can get for free - pirate - burn - or what ever they do these days. I'd rather play to a live crowd - who still appreciates us anyway!! We're 60ish now, and can still "lay it down" All I can say is "Rock on" and buy our CD! Who knows, it might get us a record deal someday, before we turn 70!!!! gunner....
in reality though...and art is ever evolving and transitioning ..ithe main thing is elusive...and it's....Do you got "the juice?".....everyone knows when they are around the juice...but no one really knows what it is...because it is really unexplainable in words....i met Stevie Wonder once..that's "the Juice"....that's what makes this all so randome and exciting//you never know who is gonna squeeze the juice!
As a promoter I would agree that your list would be terrific to have, but the bottom line is that really only two things really matter, having the dedication to treat this like a calling, and having material that is continually compelling -- whatever that means, live performance, recorded performance, it just has to catch people's attention and retain it.
I've been toying with the idea of a real label (with artists other than current project Chainsaw Dupont), and the main problem is that 90% of the performers that are eager to send songs are just not any good, and the ones that are good often aren't dedicated enough to show up for meetings (or gigs) on time, and really just want a steady job that lets them not show up on time.
The very small number of performers that can just manage to treat their music career as seriously as, say, accountants or factory workers or policemen treat their jobs would make a good roster for any label, because it is possible to work as a team with them.
Who was it that said "half of becoming famous is showing up?" A lot of the old bluesmen I've known have said that just making the gig is half the gig.
I do know that there's a lot of talent out there, but not a lot of discipline, and as a songwriter I know that I'd never settle for the first draft, but a lot of people in all walks of life settle for "good enough" instead of "good" when judging their own work. I try to be my own worst critic, and when I see that sort of dedication and discipline toward continual improvement, I see someone who is going to be successful -- and by that I don't necessarily mean rich.
This is why most labels are run as a labor of love, and occasionally some of them get lucky and can actually sustain one or two people in a living.
The number one person encouraging me to just do it is Bob Koester, who runs Jazz Record Mart here in Chicago as well as Delmark Records. He started 55 years ago and still complains every time I see him about how much money he's losing. But he always finds a way to make it work, and in his very large catalog there are some of the all-time classic jazz and blues recordings -- along with some stuff that I would call sub-par or average. Nonetheless, it's the occasional masterpiece that makes it worth making the mistakes.
I would agree strongly, however, about avoiding addicts, and I would probably also add avoiding artists with untreated mental or emotional illness, which sort of falls in the same category of things that will keep even a genius from succeeding.
I feel my style is unique. But the record industry seems to tie down its bands to only one genre so I don't seem to fit their criteria as well as age. I can't help myself when I make my tunes. One day I want to make a Rock tune. The next and R&B tune. Country...Punk Rock...Jazz. Hell, I may wanna compose a Japanes Kabuki tune. Freedom baby. I am happy that CDbaby allows for me to do all of the above. I noticed the other day that my music is now on Amazon.com. : )
Thanks
Derek
Oh yeah. Heh heh. My website.
My humble two cents worth on this after reading the article and most of the replies that have been posted.
After reading all of the posts, the only person who got close to getting it right is Jim Voxx ... but even he only got it part right. It's really this simple: The most & really only important thing is the ability of the artist to connect their soul & spirit to that of the listener. Think about it ... who are the artists you like? & why do you like them? ... in 99.95% of the cases, it is probably because you connect with them/they connect with you at some level, and the deeper that connection, the more likely you would name them as your favorite, own more of their CDs/records, listen to their songs more often, and be willing to spend your time and hard earned money to support them.
Yes, you have to hone your craft, ... work extremely hard to become the best player of your instrument that YOU can be (which may never be as good as Jimi Hendrix or JImmy Page, etc.) ... constantly re-work your songs (arrangements, structure, instrumentation, vocal presentation, production) to make them the best that they can be NOW (and if you do so consistently, the songs & your performance of them will only continue to get better in the future) ...
But all of this is toward one goal ... to allow you to "transcend" ... to conquer your fears sufficiently to allow you to freely deliver your soul through your music and performance to your audience. I don't read Derek as saying that your vocals have to be better than Robert Plant or Aretha Franklin, but that it is on pitch, interesting "striking & head turning" ... Joe Cocker is a great example of someone who has this ability to connect even though his voice is not "perfect" ... it is his performance, delivery, ability to let go completely that is perfect, striking, head-turning and makes him stand heads and tails over the billions of unsuccessful musicians in the world who may actually, technically, have better sounding vocals.
As to Derek's list ... I can't see anything on the list that isn't worth striving for as a personal goal to improve your music career. The level of "resistance" to these "goals" in the replies is truly interesting -- if you don't think any of the things on the list aren't important goals in this business, you're just wrong, afraid you can't live up to it, upset about the rejection you've experienced, totally unrealistic, ... etc., etc.
There are obviously countless examples of artists who make it despite not being the best example of one or several goals on the list, and it may be that even if you fulfill each goal on the list beyond what it should take to succeed, that you won't have that "breakthrough" success ... but it is 100% certain that the more of these goals you can accomplish, the better you chance of "success" in having a career or fulfilling your personal goals & dreams (however you define them) will be. But the bottom line is & will always be can you deliver your heart and soul to your audience every song, every note, every vocal phrase, every performance, every time - that is what you should be striving for and working towards, ... not necessarily to deliver "perfection," but making that person to person soul connection (even when you make a mistake) that will make each of your listeners love you/your music. A lot of that comes back to your acceptance of your self & your commitment to practicing & working hard to always give them your best performance.
That's my promise to each of you & the world ... to deliver you my soul.
I'm willing to work towards every goal on Derek's list & had really already
figured those goals out ... I wish each of you success as you define it.
Peace, love & light,
Beth Isbell
I do in fact have a label for my own work. It's called Wrong Way Works. Contrary to what you might think it is a reference to my method of guitar playing which is identical most notably to Elizabeth Cotten & Albert King. I would have two standards to signing artists - a vision and ideas. That would be my criteria and that has been my template to recording my whole career, have something to say and say it in an interesting way. Have something that is worth putting the time and energy into marketing and licensing. For myself as well as any other artist I would sign I would want to find ample financial opportunities for my work with as little interference to the creative process as possible. Great work can be found at all age levels and so can the vision thing. The biggest obstacle for labels today is marketing dollars.
If you have artists that have a vision and have ideas for their work then all that needs to be done is to market that artist to the appropriate target group.
Hopefully those artists would find acceptance outside the core target group as interest grows and word spreads out from inside the core group. I love the idea of having my own label (actually two- my first one is called Seeing i Records) and having the opportunity to see my work all the way through from
inception to market.
Bob Beland
I am fully impressed with Mr Derek Sivers he is man that was giving good
oppurtunity to all youth artiste I am also very happy that my pakhawaj
solo cd was soonly released by CD Baby.Thanks Mr Derek Sivers
As an owner of two independent record labels, one of those being for the Welsh language artists, i have realized, over the four years that the labels have been active, that very few are prepared to put as much effort into their work as the label or publisher is.
I try to run my businesses as professionaly as i can, making sure that everything is in place well before the release date, with the media promo's sent out at least three weeks before the release, so as to give it the best possible chance of airplay and reviews.
Unfortunately, some artists and bands can pretty much hijack all of this if you let them.
We are in a people business and as such, everyone has their own opinion about how a business should be run.
When i first started up my record labels and publishing company, i took the help and advice from people who were already successful in this area, something i have always done from an early age, these people have been around the block a few times, learned from their mistakes and are quite willing usually, to pass this knowledge on, i see it as an apprenticeship, learning the ropes if you like.
One of the most important lessons that i was given, was that their are NO short-cuts, period!
As one old guy told me many years ago, "you can't be a company director until you have done a bit of sweeping up first", you have to work your way up to the top, learn the tricks of the trade and then when you get to that top job/position, you are well versed in the most successful way to conduct that business.
I have been in situations where the artist thinks that they know what is best for their music, including the album artwork etc.
As an independent label, i try to be as flexible as possible with my clients needs, from producing their work to sending out the promo's but occasionaly, i get the odd one (and i really mean odd!) who will push the envelope just a little bit too far and start to try to take over.
The world is full of armchair producers, artists, even legal advisors, not one qualification but a shed load of opinions, the worst one being the father of one of the band members, who decides that he will steer them to success and untold wealth and that i should do everything he asks, otherwise legal action will be taken out towards me if i don't.
In situations like this, i have found that rather than go off on one and get into a slanging match with said parent, i mentaly call up the advice i have learned from the previously mentioned old boys over the years, what would they do?, how would they handle such a deicate situation?.
The answer is "call their bluff".
This situation arose within the first year of the labels being launched, the second release on the Welsh language label.
It wasn't the parent but the artist who threatened legal action against me if i didn't do exactly as he asked, futhermore he also threatened to ruin my business, although i put that one down to artistic temprement.
The artist had already signed a publishing agreement with me, so i knew that i had control over his work, the work i had spent nearly eighteen months producing for him.
I did everything that he asked, to the letter and much more.
The media promo's were sent out and he was happy, although what he didn't realize was that i had also added instrumental versions of the tracks to the promo's, something i knew he would object to if i mentioned it, so i didn't.
Come the December 2005 royalty distribution, i handed him a very sizeable cheque, which he took to mean that his songs were so great, that they had earned this large amount.
What he didn't relaize, was that 70% of the income was from usage of the instrumental tracks on TV and radio, i didn't ever tell him about this.
The income from his album continues to this day, although the contract i have with him for the album finishes this August but i don't mind, my share has just about covered my investment and the stress he caused.
It was a learning curve, for me more than him.
He went on to set up his own label and released two, self produced singles, they both bombed and earned very little, why?, probably because he tried to be a company director, instead of doing a bit of sweeping up first!
As a solo artist or band, you need a team behind you who knows how things work, the labels and publishers have their contacts in the industry, such as the the radio DJ's who get my promo's a few days before the others, they make sure that the album gets lots of airplay, same with some of the TV production company contacts, you have to develop a relationship with the best person within that company who can help you, it makes sense.
George Kempson
Even crummy rock is better then no rock at all.
If you want to learn how to rock boys and girls you gotta learn how to roll.
Rock it tight and you'll be rockin all night.
If less is more then you take less and I'll take more
have fun. tony
We do most of the 'list' but we're not perfect - there are ups and downs. And of course we'd like label support - so 'turning it all around' - what would we want from a record label? Well a viable plan might help - right now apart from CDbaby - music sales are going south for most labels hence revenue is down and investment is down. Why sign with a traditional label? The business model is going bust. So what kind of plan? - Well how about one that maximises potential income from new sources such as film, advertising, radio, TV, games, sponsorship, product bundling through publishing deals, and one that is unique - i.e. creative and matched to our capabilities, genre and expectations. Otherwise why should we sign anything with you. For Example exposure is really important - the key that no-one can guarantee: has the label got the ideas that would gain traction in the market that don't involve doing the same thing as everyone else? So Derek what has your label got to offer?.
Ah, now, if a label could survive on one artist, you could take me!
Alternatively, you could tell any label folks you talk to that you have the perfect artist for them: ME! ;-)
Derek,Probably not.I'm 67 yrs. old and only started writing songs 7 years ago. But i had a lifetime of experiences to draw from. I'm old enough to KNOW who and what I am, and for better or worse, I can live with it.Most well known top performers are created today. They are given a personna, dressed up to fit it and encouraged to act that way. The public is told how great they are and act accordingly. I write traditional country because that's what comes out of me when I start to create a song. That's MY vibration.I have very little luck getting on the radio in My country, but I have over 30 stations happy to play my stuff throughout Europe,Great Britain, Australia, New Zeland, etc. and I'm happy about that. I don't have to dress funny, or pretend I use drugs, or smash my guitar (which I 've had since 1969)or get arrested, etc. I can wear a flannel shirt and dungarees and just be me and the people who know WHO I really am, and relate to the songs I play are my greatest asset.
I don't think we live up to yuor criterias, but if you make a record label we might be interesting anyway: don't you think that lots of people will buy 14 songs of Joni Mitchell that she never released herself? 3 on the latest CD www.cdbaby.com/cd/bigyellowtaxi4 and 11 on the coming "Treasures Of Joni Mitchell" ( www.cdbaby.com/cd/bigyellowtaxi5 ) Thank you for a great cdbaby.
Henning
Jimi Hendrix didn't want to sing on his records because he felt he just wasn't good enough until someone told him if Bob Dylan was bold enough to sing he should too. Polished singer he wasn't but.... it was Jimi.
Bob Dylan's songs have become one of the most recorded artists on the market.
Derek, as a manager/investor who is starting a label I would add the following:
1. The artist must understand that we are marketing a product. Money is made by selling the product not by just having a product. You must be able to see past your own creativity and make and maintain an emotional connection to your audience and fans.
2. You can not take money and support from an investor and expect to maintain total control of your project. Artists must have business sense or be able to work with someone who does. I have worked with too many gifted artists who think they deserve my money and time simply because they are great musicians. They fail to respect my expertise in my artform, business. Those artists do not get my money or time.
3. ' Be faithful in small things first. You need to be able to play a tight show at a graduation party or a book signing before trying to fill an arena.
Thanks for all you do
Stephen D. Regier
Country Metal Music (BMI)
Well Derek,
I'm there! Let's talk! I think I fit everything on the list pretty well save a tobacco habit, but pobody's nerfect, you know that! I'll even be in Portland with my bus on my NW tour this fall with my new album "Patience Pays". Are you really thinking of moving in this direction?
I feel like I have been successful, even though I struggle with money and after working for 8 years professionally I KNOW I can not do it all as I have been for much longer. I am starting to get better gigs, more credibility and a wider circle to my network these days.
Since we first met years ago, I have always respected your kick-ass attitude and am amazed by you. Can't wait to see what you're cookin up now. Please keep me in the loop huh?
;) Rachel
http://www.rachelsedacca.com
One more criteria... use your unique voice, create YOUR art don't try and sound like someone else. If the Doors set out to try and sound like everyone else and to write a "hit" I doubt they would have gotten out of the starting blocks. Just imagine the music videos if Jim Morrison was alive today... I'm sure they would not be at all what the standard MTV fare is...
After all of these years in this business I would say at least you know what you are talking about and what you want in an artist. Too Many lables are only about the money and control not the music.Thats why so many artist turned to their own labels,Hey the money we make is not all that but at lease we can release a CD when we want,Play the kind of music we want and be reconized by fans around the world with all the control of our music futher on us.We can't blame anyone but our self if we don't get out there and make it happen.With cdbaby doing their thing for us and some get up and go how can you lose.
Sema'j
Three words Derek: We The Living.
They fit all those criteria point by point and I guarantee you will take the music world by storm soon.
John Paul Roney is the real deal and continues to blow my mind both vocally and inspirationally in terms of his song writing. Look for the second album to change music.
Thank you for creating an incredible business that hopefully will inspire bands enough to help improve the industry.
~Stefan
I'm too much of a control freak to ever sign on with a label.
And I buy others music solely because I like it. I don't care if they ever do a concert.
I don't really care about the artists personal life, how they look or any of that other stuff.
The artist/band should be a story. Not a news flash or a horror novel or a gag reel, but an honest-to-God story. Something worth following because it's interesting and engaging.
Pax,
Matthew
http://matthewebel.com
I'd probably lean towards bands comprised of single band members. You don't need them screaming at their cell phones in the back alley behind the venue when they're supposed to be sound checking!
Record lables are not our friends.They are business people trying to make money,and thats it.We all strive to make music.We would all love to hear our music played on a public forum for everyone to hear.Unfortunatly we have no control of that. We don't need another record company, and what you do is far more important than that. I love cdbaby and what it has done for me and others like me. Rock on ! frank.
Well, I guess I'll never be signed. Can't really say that that's why I've been doing this. The fact that any of my stuff has sold remains amazing to me. I don't want to be a rock star (too old for that). I just want to create and play with musicians who can share my enthusiasm for writing and playing. Now that my 4th album is currently being completed, I can't wait to begin the 5th.
Dear Mr. Sivers,
.
After reading through your list about what you would require from your label artists, as well as the posts, there seems to be much criticism and praise. As a side note, the fact of the matter is the sheer dilution of today’s music scene means the mega bands of the past (Cream, The Who, The Doors, etc) are no longer an entity that can possibly exist. We live in the world of the niche markets, where the majors fight hard, and pay top dollar to maintain control over what is left of their slowly disappearing industry, and small indie bands do just fine if they can reach their own unique fan-base where they are king. Thus, because of said dilution it is ok to demand whatever you want out of a band…because their will always be another to take its place (why do you want the band that can play music, but is flat on stage?…Steve Vai says half the people in the audience are likely tone deaf…that’s a sure money loser)…you just have to find those special few (or maybe in Derek-Sivers-land they have to find you) who have what you are demanding. As for the list itself, how can one reasonably complain about a list that was most likely hastily written, and one that you would likely adjust should your artistic temperament demand such (rules are made to be broken!!).
What I find most intriguing, however, is your aversion to starting said label. Having read your always amusing, definitely thought provoking blogs, one might think you would be more inclined to starting a label. Not only would it help certain musicians, but it would be a challenge, something you seem to seek. An enormous challenge to say the least, something to really get you up in the morning, and stimulate you throughout the day. No doubt there would be some tasks you might consider dull in the process, but I could hardly imagine a more talented individual when it comes to outsourcing. Above all, however, it would be YOUR label (LabelBaby?...Baby Records?), and YOU would decide what would go on it, and what anyone else said would not matter. You could look at it as if you were judging people based on your own criteria, but the people involved might see it as slightly more useful than that. So, what do you say, DerekBaby? Anyway, as you well know, the most important thing is that you are enjoying life every step of the way, whatever activity you may be perusing.
I hope if you happen to read this, my musings haven’t been a waste of your time. Have a nice day
P.S. Van Morrison and the Doors? The Beatles? Maybe super-groups, but who are they compared to Bach, who really wasn’t truly appreciated until the time of Mendelssohn and Schumann.
so, of the artists you love, really love, to listen to - how many fit that list, Derek?
The list could be fine as a kind of checklist to figure out how big a risk someone is, and maybe how to manage that risk.
But the criteria I *wish* labels were using are more along these lines :
Would the world be missing anything much if these guys never got heard outside their home town?
Is anyone, outside of a few anoraks, going to give a shit about this artist 10 years from now?
To some, those reasons are way too idealist to be "commercially viable". But, who are the artists whose back catalogues you wish you owned a chunk of today?
You know, Derek, all this promoting and marketing sounds like a lot of work. I think most artists do what they know, which is writing and performing music, and it's the rare musician who also has the business acumen to make lots of money at it. I appreciate your efforts to try educating us. But when, for example, I need a killer sax riff in one of my recordings, I get the best sax player I can find to bring that expertise to the project rather than laying down a half-assed sax line on my own. Same with business, which is why I don't do my own taxes either. I understand that this opinion may condemn me to eternal obscurity in the greater musical universe. I take solace in the fact that Emily Dickinson's poetry didn't find its way out of a box until she was in one.
Most of these criteria sound good but "every note/syllable crafted" is a level that can wring the creativity out of the music. There is such a thing as soulless perfection.
Some of my musician friends and I are beginning to find that our excess perfectionism has delayed us from taking the inevitable and necessary risk of exposing our work, or doing other necessary but more mundane things.
What I look for in music is not so much an "airbrushed" quality of formal perfection, but more like an ability to do it will, with abandon. Perhaps you've sat there and practiced scales and forms to the extent that when it comes time to do it for real, the mechanics of it are automatic. You no longer need perfectionism.
You forgot college education, masters degree and the ability to drive 20+ hours nonstop
you'll definetely sign my band :-P
As a label owner I constantly struggle with what am I looking for in an artist. I was asked to do a class on A&R at a university in Canada a couple months back, so I had to consider all the things I look at. You've made comment on a lot of the things that I look at, but I realize (as do you) that no one meets the standard that you outlined. I look for artists that are "heads above" the rest, with a lot of the qualities you ask for but perhaps I'm more willing to settle just slightly lower....just slightly...because a label does need artists...even if they aren't letter perfect. Other things I consider in my musings are 1.Are they willing to listen? 2. Do our personalities do well together? 3. Can I expect that I'll like the music and working with them after 3 years or 6? 4. Is their an audience for their music? And more. Of course just like a marriage, the courtship is never exactly like the reality after the deal is done. Sometimes I think I'd just do as well with "darts." Cordially, Charles "max" E. Million President - American Eagle Recordings.
Sign me up! I match all of your criteria, IMHO. Well, some are subjective. Although I am addicted... to endorphins!
I think the professionalism of the artist is extremely important. The longevity of an artist has to do with their drive and work ethic. A lot of times as artists, we get so caught up in our art and how great our music is that we neglect things like being on time, being personable, professionalism, and not forgetting that this does have to pay our bills. I know so many talented artists who SUCK at the business side of things so they never reach their full potential. While no one is perfect, it's hard to invest in someone that doesn't think outside their CD because you can have a hit song, but if you lack that drive to take you to the top, no one else can help you.
Sincerely,
Shanelle Gabriel
Singer/HBO Def Poetry Jam Artist
Derek,
I'm not sure you need a label to promote good music. BUT, as I have suggested to you before, why not start or sponsor a radio program that plays the music of those musicians who have trusted their music to you to do your job (and you've done it well!). This would open up the listening world to the vast library of music at CD Baby.
The biggest impediment to selling songs contiues to be airplay. The big 3 have a lock on what gets heard and a vested interest in keeping independents out. Satellite radio would be perfect as launching pad or maybe even NPR ala "American Roots". "THE CD BABY INDEPENDENT RADIO SHOW".
Keep up the great work!
Most of the big names don't even meet a few of these requirements, but the big labels carry them anyway. They really do carry them. Obviously Britney Spears would never have gotten anywhere without a lot of help, and that applies to most big name "artists". They have music engineers behind them building their songs according to formulas that are designed to appeal to the "mass market", and they have very capable promoters with unlimited resources, who would have no problem selling jalapenos in Hell. They are packaged and marketed with precision to create an image based on what has worked in the past, and there's always a lot of sex, sex, and sex. It works, and it makes fantastic amounts of money, but it takes a lot of money to start with, and it has no artistic value at all.
Most of the music that I have collected in my CD rack comes from independent musicians because they have real talent, and I like their music. I don't care if I never head them on the radio or saw them on TV. I don't care how good they are at promotion or business management. I care what comes out of the speaker when I play the CD, that's all. If I go to see them play, I hope they have had a bath recently and they don't have BO.
I have been seriously impressed by musicians who are really beautiful to look at, as well as others who look like homeless bums. There were a couple of guys at a coffee house in Davis who looked like total slackers who lived under a bridge somewhere, and their equipment looked like it came out of a dumpster, but they did an incredible hour long fusion improv session which was one of the most awesome things I have ever seen. They were brilliant!
I saw a harpist who I fell in love with instantly at a Pagan fair. I watched totally entranced for a half hour before I bought a CD. If her music sucked, I might still have watched, but I would not have bought the CD. She played some beautiful traditional Celtic songs, as well as some of her own. I was in love, but she was married. Rats. People who hear the CD don't ask me what she looks like. They just say something like "Wow!". That's good enough.
For me, it's the music that really matters. If the music does not make it with me, then no amount of flash and polish can fill the void.
If I was running a record label, I would sign anyone who I think might bring in a lot of money first, regardless of anything else, but when I became well off enough to do it, I would sign artists who I really like, and help them with all the promotion and paperwork so they can concentrate on what they do best. Of course, that is an ideal scenario. In reality, I am awful at promotion and paperwork, I spend grueling hours at it and accomplish almost nothing. I try to keep it to a minimum because it takes a HUGE amount of energy away from the actual music. It really is the music that matters.
Yet, we have American Idol...and those idiots get signed all the time. Can't write, can't play, can't get it together on their own and pay dues. It's true and it sucks.
Make music for yourself... That's what people really want to hear.
e
Derek, i just want to say that i love the way your mind works!! You make me laugh and at the same time impress me with how busy you have yourself...all the accomplishments you have achieved. I could also be quite impressed with someone who has reached a complete satisfaction with life and therefor has mastered the art of doing nothing! lol.
Anyhow, i'd be honoured to have you, Derek Sivers, as my promoter because i believe you are driven. And driven is a good ingredient in achievement.
I thank you for creating CdBaby, Hostbaby, and for the cool anecdotes you share! You rock!
I also wish you the best with your life and had quite a good chuckle upon learning that you took some time off, made it so that CdBaby could run without you, went backpacking and all 'on an inward journey', and then set up a new company in another country. Hahaha. Work-a-holic comes to mind! Focused, driven.....
In peace & unity bro!
Fara Palmer
PS: i know....i suck....i was supposed to write something about this post. And hey, while i'm on the subject...i thought your list was interesting, but that i also fit many(definately not all) of your "have to be before you sign an artist to your label" items. Cheers!
My 2 cents worth- I am CEO of a mid-size label, Epilogue Records/EPI Masterworks, which has been in operation since 1964. We’re a starter label carefully choosing new young talent. I imagine under Derek’s rule list we should have failed by 1965. Many of our starter artists, like Donald Osmond and Gene Rockwell would not have been noticed had they not appeared on Epilogue first.
Our criteria for picking who we will start is very selective, limited and intense. First, the only genres of music we accept are Classical, Folk & Celtic, Inspirational, Broadway & Film, and Country-Folk. If the music is vocal it must be of high moral caliber and the singer must have a firm grip on diction and grammar. The singer also needs a 1-1/2 to 2 octave range. The music must be melodic and tell a story- That goes for both instrumental and vocal.
The performance must be as close to flawless as possible and a singer must be able to identify with both seen and unseen audiences, or in other words, the singer must sing as if concert seats cost $300 each. He or she must exude personality and be excited to perform.
As of today, we still promote these high expectations in musicians. And we still represent young people who have had little stage or concert experience. That part is easily trained for by us.
Where’s cross-collateralization?
Where’s a clause for those that fit when you sign ‘em but flake out after ‘making it’?
But seriously, I love to entertain the thought of being what you want just to see you surprised when you discover that none of those points would guarantee any capitalistic viablity.
I won’t ask you to suffer my ‘whys’ on a point-by-point basis, but you realize as counterpoints there are rebuttals for each of your bullets that can be drawn from music history archives. Understanding that most of those examples were only capitalistically fruitful as ‘anomolies’. The only real gamble a label starting in this current business climate should ever take is on the ‘anomoly’ – with the follow up of pretending that making money off of the ‘noble art mission’ is just accidental…
☹ Labels are shams and sterilizers – an ultimate pyramid scheme preying on dreams and the muse-driven…don’t go there please Derek…
☺ Distributors and publishers are enablers – and all any commmercial artist should need (if they already fit your list) - like CDBaby is to us...
But the non-commercial artist who can’t stop making music because it would rot their soul not to play and write - they are indifferent to your list - even if they never see a dime – that’s the true anomoly in today’s Guitar-Hero/American Idol world.
My motto is “Measured against the success of others in my crafts, I am grossly insignificant. But measured against my own personal obstacles and the odds against me, my successes are mind boggling.”
Still, I create because I MUST release creative output, in spite of the fact that the first part of the motto rings louder in my ego-ears than the second part.
Genres, rules, criteria, major labels, business, money, fans, fame, people, news, press, promo, buzz, blog, website, shopping cart, paypal, entertain, cater??? – none of those have any place inside the part of me that is an artist.
The other part of me is ALL about those things. So if I HAD to start a label, my criteria for artists would be nearly identical to yours, with the inclusion of the points from Jody Whitesides (2nd response to your original post).
Wow, am I really glad I don’t have to start a label for anyone else’s muse or mission – 'I already got one of those' - thanks for reminding me Derek!
Dont wait on others to help you get where you want to go. Just go.
I believe in quality, people want quality,people know quality...when they see or hear it. I myself am a helpless finatic of striving for quality. I never really have a "writers block" because i think with depth, so i like to expose the different grains of perspective. My porject the Mason Dixon Line Project is my first project ever put out to the extent everyone can get a copy,thanks to CDBABY!!!!BIG UP!!!However, i refused to be stuffed into a barrel of unappreciated music, so i take care of my apporches. My Genre is hip hop but Iam more like a Kanye/Roots combo of an artist producer. I have observed the power of the internet so therefore prefer reaching out through this medium as a means of creating a "buzz". DJs I have found to be so controlled by station managers and people that do not relate or even care about the music or artist. I been told by sereval they with check out my music but i have not heard or had anymore conversation with any of them...mmmmm..pretty strange i think. I know my music is quality, so i present it as such. In this country however there is alot of denial going around. I seem to get nothing but praise from Eruopean crowds but in the US who has really even heard of me??? I have seen a niche for my stlye of music because iam in the family of artist like The Roots, Talib, J Dilla, Tribe, however i did not grow up in a city like NEW YORK or DETROIT,
L.A. ect Iam from a small country in MD SALISBURY, where there is as much evey day life drama as it is in the city. This town has som many combo confused attitudes its really not even funny, like i said Iam from where the North and South meet. As you know the civil war may have ended in 1863 but not the menality as far whites and blacks are concerned.
Believe or not though its a lot of diversity here but there really is no catering to that. I just hope that one day poeple will hear or read something about my story...The Mason Dixon Line...check it out!!!!
Also BIG UP!!to DAVID HARPE'S Comments!!!I agree wholeheartedly!!!!
Derek:
Having been signed in several different projects over the years, Jana and I have found the most success in deciding that being "signed" isn't the goal anymore. Success for us has been knowing when we are able to do something ourselves, and when we are not. Back when radio broke a new artist (before MP3's) there was so much more diversity for the listener, HOWEVER, you still had to be on a label to get airplay. What meaningful radio breaks new music to mainstream audiences anymore? How many "artists" spend $500 on home recording gear, and then flood clubs and management offices with their crappy demos?
We have made a living on our original music now for three years, touring the US twice, having our own TV show on FOX in Upstate NY, and that all sounds great on paper, but you still need that break through event to reach a national audience.
There will never be an answer that fits both the artist side and his/her business side.
It's really just about balance in your life, and perfecting your craft by LISTENING and learning. Like 4th grade.
Derek, we fit the majority of your criteria, but we'd never sign a deal with a label that was looking for all those things to make a decision.
Glad to know you aren't starting a label. ha ha !
Melanie Peters
PoseyTunes, Inc.
www.janalosey.com
Love the list
Music gets to the point
I do too
When I hear "that was f' ing amazing" I know I did my job as a singer.
I strive to be beyond "f'ing amazing"
Derek rocks!
Mykel
You're a good guy, Derek. Thanks: I really enjoy the spirit of CDBaby.
My comment has to do globally with music. For me, overworked, "perfected" music can be just the sort that doesn't penetrate to the heart. My album "One" is ragged as all get out, but it's got a great vibe and a lot of soul. Mine is perhaps a tad too imperfect, but the key to good music, in my (getting humbler all the time) view, is the spirit within. The uber-produced pieces these days are often much ado about nothing, though of course this is a gross generality. I think back to the productions of the Eagles, Yes, Pink Floyd, Beatles, and Stevie Wonder with reverence. But then there's also the jaunty cool of NRBQ, a haphazard outfit that occasionally produces a stunning gem. I think it's possible to create a great album with imperfections-- these can almost humanize the performance in certain genres (I don't like classical music performed with anything less than virtuosity). I suppose the best example that comes to mind of what I refer to here as real ragged glory, is any album by the Band. The singing is not spot on, but always from the heart. The playing is strong but loose. The effect is masterful.
Cheers! Keep striving--
Van Austin
メールありがとうございます。
Thank you for the mail.
翻訳ソフトで読んだのですが、私は今ひとつ解釈できませんでした。
I couldn't interpret it somehow though it was read by translation software.
私は 音楽業界について何一つわかりません。特にアメリカのそれについては、よりわかりません。
I know nothing about the music business world.
As for American that, it is specially understood less much.
私には音楽業界に通じた協力者が必要です。私の楽曲を気に入ってくれる協力者が現れることを私は待ち望んでいます。
The cooperator acquainted with the music business world is necessary for me.
I look forward to the cooperator's who likes my tune appearing.
私は曲を作る以外能がありません。
.私はできれば作曲家としてこれから進んでいこうと思っております。
I am of no use except that a tune is made
I think that it will proceed as a composer from now if I can do it.
しかし、作曲だけでは楽曲は完成されません。詞・アレンジ・ボーカル・演奏するバンド・エンジニアなどが必要です。
.また、完成した楽曲をヒットさせるための諸々のメディアなどが必要です。
But, music is only written, and a tune isn't completed.
The band, engineer and so on who plays the words ・ arrangement, vocal ・ is necessary.
And, the various media and so on to make a completed tune be a big hit is necessary.
最近、私はつくづく思います。私の力は小さいなと・・・。
Recently, I think deeply. My power is small. ・・・.
もし、Derekさんが私の協力者になっていただけたら、私は幸いです。
いや、私がDerekさんの協力者になれたらもっと幸いです。
I am lucky if Mr.Derek can have it become my cooperator.
No, it is luckier if I can become Mr.Derek's cooperator.
と言っても私のできることはよりよい曲を作ることだけですけど・・・。
As for what I can do, even if it says, though it is only to make a better tune, ・・・.
以上の理由で、もし、Mr.Derekがレコードレーベルをもったなら、私はお互いの条件さえあえばサインしようと思います。
I think that I will sign for the above reason if only each other's condition is correct if Mr.Derek had a record label.
Having managed a band for the last 5 years who have had releases on many small independent labels and Sony, Roadrunner... but never made a penny out of releasing records, I went into setting up their own label with my eyes open... But do I regret investing in someone elses dream? Not at all - yes I am poor as a church mouse but I have toured in over 40 countries with the band and had the most marvellous time and experience... I suppose it was my dream too...
Maybe however i was very lucky because the band in question tick those boxes
I am just frustrated that they have not achieved more - i think they deserved a better manager!
Electric Eel Shock can rescue the World
I would add to that list - not only that a band should be incredible live and be able to tour profitably but they should live for being on stage - I have been on tour with EES when after a nasty hot 12 hour drive to Kansas we got there to find the gig had been cancelled due to the bar losing it's live license or something and had not told us. the support band drove up, heaved a sigh of relief and went to check themselves into a motel and get an early night - I thought that was a good idea, but EES got back in the van and drove to other venues they had played in the past and asked for a gig - they ended up playing infront of 50 people in a bar and we stopped at the owners house where a cat pissed on the drummers head (I feel i may be getting off the point here!)
The point is that EES have the same drive to get on stage every night and have never once complained about the conditions or events they have to wade through to get there...
Fortunately this was 4 years ago and things have improved greatly for the band now - but their single minded desire to play music remains a central driving force...
if you are interested
www.electriceelshock.com
(I directed many of their videos - smashing aren't they?)
I think this is a better ideal from Derek Sivers. Having a record lebel as a marketer and start signing his own artist it make easier and is way of buisness expansion.
Brother i advice you to go into this biz and i am here to be.
Collins Ogbe.
Your list is a great list. It's also very personal to you just as making your own label should be. So while these are qualities you want artists on your roster to have, it's not the case for everyone who has started a label. I'd imagine that a label would be successful no matter what if someone has even taken the time to think about and craft a criteria they feel is important to success. I wonder if you did make a label based on your standards, what would change over time and with experience.
If you ever start the label check out "Swamp Baby" (from upstate NY.. if they're still around at such time.. I'm not in this band but they are dear friends of mine from back east with an awesome attitude towards their art)
I have a style of music that while, basically in the genre of "rock," it doesn't sound like a lot of other things out there. Now, I know everyone is supposed to sound like someone else, but I have yet to hear anyone who I can say "Hey! That souns like me!." This is not something a lot of record producers/promoters/labels would want to take a chance on. In fact, it is the very thing most want to avoid simply because by investing in an unusual sound, there's a chance that no one else will 'get' it. I know for a fact that no one here in Harrisburg, PA got what we were doing when we were playing live, even though there were lots of positive comments on our website. A record label is in business, therefore, taking a chance on a new sound in this day and age when bands need to sell over a million copies of a debut just to be considered successful is unheard of, if not outright stupid. I would like to see a label that works with artists to get them the desired publicity and grow their audience--therein selling more units. Well, I can dream, can't I?...
Just one more passing comment on this very interesting thread. I notice that even the hypothetical mention of a record company elicits waves of excitement from many, as even the hint of an opportunity to have their music heard is like a breath from heaven. The craving for a fair chance to make a noticeable footprint with the artists creative product might make people crawl over broken glass for such a deal. And yet, the power of CD baby, I-tunes and the like has done much of the work for creator/performer.
The heart of the problem is that the outlets for listening by a larger audience remains cemented down with financial impediments so large that virtually no one outside of the loop can ever hope to manage it. A large national radio/satellite radio/television complex (with physical distribution connected to it worldwide) that would have as its priorities airing unknown musicians/writers would have a much stronger impact than another record company, though the record company would be quite good.
Many astounding surprises would come from such a super-complex for unknown artists and the venture would likely be extremely profitable. The numbers of people sending their energies into such novel idea would be great as evidenced by the mention of a mythological record company and its attendant excitement.
The big unknown and positive of this is the large number of artists that will have very engaging personalities of the vigor and size to drive excitement and public attention to the venture and the music.
Just one slender chance might be enough for the next great music, musician/writer and entertainer.
I myself would work for free on such a project if anyone would seriously begin it.
There are truly great unsigned musicians among us. There are truly talented unpublished songwriters among us. I meet them everywhere I go in this country. There was a time four decades or so ago when record companies had enough revenue to explore artists in hope of finding a diamond in the rough. The route to stardom at that time was also Top 40 radio. Those days are gone.
It is up to the artist to launch their musical career. At what point in your musical endeavor do you need a manager? Unless you have deep pockets, it is that point at which you no longer have time to manage the endeavor on your own. Managers cost revenue.
At what point do you, the artist, need a record label? For most of us, the answer is that point where a record label becomes interested, AND can do more for you than you can do on your own. It is not some point where the quality of your recording hits someone else's idea of superb. Ever wonder how mediocre songs get on the radio to begin with?
As far as demons go, I am by no means an exception. If any artist can rise above their shortcomings, then they'll have a better chance of rising above mediocrity. The mainstream media seems to focus on the actions of the well know and use that as the fodder to sell rags. "even bad publicity is still publicity". Sad fact, but maybe someday enough fans will tire of the mug-shots and shortcomings and start looking for the unknown talent that makes up such a large portion of what's out there. Until then, we in the wings will always be ready, willing, and able to burst thru!
Given that these digital days, cherry picking single downloads is the name of the game. I think Derek Sivers, the manager, could best bear fruit and grow as a label, busy helping artists blossom by taking the nectar of the most promising singles, and transforming them into honey. Perhaps a cdbaby singles chart, podcast, could serve as a taster for the audiences eagerness, prior to wider release.
Derek- I was reading a lot of the replies to your article and I have to say that you do seem to put your bar very high but I agree with most of what you said. Musicians have to be an entire package now and so they should be. I would be a WICKED part of your label!
If you had a label, I'd be the quiet one in the bunch. I agree with your list but I would still need artist development
Some days I feel it some days....well you know!
Well...Derek
A very interesting list you've got there.I've been doing all those things in your list for many years now. I spend thousands of hours on my music, before recording in expensive recording studios. Plane tickets, Hotels, etc
All my Cd's everything I have paid for myself,including music videos and marketing and I'm proud of my success and...even deaf people have enjoyed my live shows!
However, It's very annoying when many music industry idiots, think that everyone female should sleep with them to get ahead, suck lollipops,and many do that.
So, I am an independant, strong-minded Singer-Songwriter, and won't use madonnas, kinky, sex-recipes to get ahead.
Don't you think its' boring to get a YES-PERSON on a record deal?
Yes. I would sign. And I think that you would sign me, based on your criteria.
So where can I find a label like yours? Is there a not-just-hypothetical label that's as non-evil as CDBaby and has standards like the ones you outlined?
Derek,
I've read your "list" and many of the replies as well. It seems that many of the people replying missed your tongue in cheek criteria. Your point at the end about "The Doors" is well taken. It seems to me that you are encouraging artists/musicians to think outside the box and to NOT conform to such stringent rules. I have come across soooo many industry types that are in fact looking for musicians to fit these criteria and in doing so they overlook so many talented yet flawed individuals. Artists are a fragile lot. They need to be given a chance to succeed by the powers that be. i wouldn't sign to a label like the one you described. Why would I do ALL the work so that some one else could profit from it after having done nothing?
Tom/Joe Rockhead
I hope this does not sound too presumptuous, considering I thoroughly respect the CD baby organization. I would imagine, Mr Sivers, that you would ultimately favor an artist that was completely self sufficient. If I was an A&R I would essentially want to consider my relationship with my artists as a " partnership" in contrast to a one sided effort into a epic and vital Journey for you and the artist.
- So the only thing I would need to add to the list would be " SELF SUFFICIENCY " I am sure, Mr Sivers, if all the artists you sign have this quality, it would help you out a whole-heck of a lot.
From my experience as an Independent composer, I have noticed that most A&Rs or N&Rs are fixed, thinking in a two-dimensional spectrum. From their point of view and essentially from the crowds point of view. From your above goals, I believe that your description of expectations from the artist(s) declare a 3rd-dimension approach. The 3rd dimension meaning vision, pioneering, and uniqueness. In fact as the founder of CD baby I am positive you have been exposed to a plethora of brilliant unexposed music and can definitely tell from a mediocre musician to a brilliant performer.
I have had management in the past, but regardless of the management and artist must be ready to represent himself at all times. Must be willing to be self sufficient. I am not trying to be monotonous by saying self sufficiency a lot, but really that is the key. Being an Independent composer, in 10 months I have managed to sale over 2,000 of my own albums right out of my own hand in less than 10 months. I have also managed to track down the CEO of big distribution company called North American Entertainment and land a non exclusive physical distribution contracts. Also I have wooed 3 major license companies that represent multiple Grammy award winning composers: Triple Scoop Music, Rumble Fish, and Nova music. Classical Music can go down any avenue you can name. Film, TV, (especially Video Games, which I am really excited to chase after.)
Being self sufficient , I know eventually, regardless of help from any Distribution company, Record Label, or License company I will always succeed improving my music and experience working with Obsessed people such as myself. I really am rooting for you , Mr Sivers. If you can find artists that are passionate enough about their music to be self sufficient and self motivated you should be Just fine.
One question, Mr Sivers. Would you deal with just bands? Or composers too?
I am 24 years and i have had 10 years of professional music business experience. In fact when i was 14 I fell in Love with the music business by landing a seasonal job playing piano compositions at the mall and State Fairs. I have been in 3 national act Bands i have learned many principals of a professional musician. Again the most important is " Self Sufficiency" and yes this does include Quality of music.
Derek: I've brought the mixes on my tracks to a point of satisfaction. Now, because of your letter I have this great curiosity for your opinion. Can I send one to you? If so,where to. It will be highly appreciated. My next phocus will be promotion and distribution. Thank you very much
Best Regards
James Whitney
"Most" of the things listed are true, but I personally am not the most talented artist on my own label, but I am the BIGGEST SELLER and the most POPULAR.
What most artists are missing these days is something called HARD WORK. I know alot of artists say they work hard but are they working as hard as they can?
I get up at 4am everyday except Sundays. I make my East Coast calls, then I move on the my Midwest calls then when it is around 8am my time out West I make my West Coast and North West business calls. Then I go out into the "streets" and sell cds and hand out samplers and flyers. After that I go to every local Record Store and promote within the store. When I come home at night I make e-mails linking people to my cdbaby site. On Saturday and some Sundays I travel over 300 Miles hitting every major city handing out samplers and flyers and also hanging posters.
When I am not doing that I am doing shows and recording music. I get about 4 Hours of sleep only every night. My artists that don't work as hard as me, don't sale 1/3 of what I do. They can't seem to understand how they don't sell more units then me when they have more "TALENT"?
http://www.cdbaby.com/llove
I'd add that artists that go back into your blog and comment on posts that are weeks old are particularly worthy of signing, because it shows they are truly interested in what you say.
..Right now I'm a not good example of one who is out there working hard on my music, though I am teaching myself recording electronic music after a life of electric guitar performances - I'm soul searching right now because to me...as Jim Morrison pointed out - Break on through to the other side" well...the other side of what?
Sometimes I just want to go to another country where the energy feels more safe, happier and fun these days. I personally don't even know what action to take at all.
non-physical reality which is as real as the physical side...and it is that reality alone that transforms all the rest and it is the least of all regarded or understood or talked about, ( especially by the business side) in terms of Inspired creativity or how to align personal energy toward the Attraction of what is desired. I think all the list Derek states is good, but I also agree with most that everyone else is saying...though I think that if a musician really wants something and really aligns their enthusiasm no matter how nieve they still focus their vision energy their emotional passionate focus too it and they are not influenced by criticism or opinions of others to get off track by everyone else's energy or resistance...he/she will be guided by their own inner guidance right to the circumstances and events that vibrationally match his/her dreams and desires and needs. And it won't really matter if someone else doesn't like the music they will still succeed..but real success is in the joy of the music...there is no high like a magic performance when you're in the zone and the walls disappear and the room levitates.... Though the really inspiring acts are those who "broke on through to the other side and literally became the vortex or channel for their own connection to Source energy and that's the power that transfixes the audience because they feel it and respond in vibration. Right now, I'm teaching myself how to record using the new computer technology..as thirty years of tech as well as styles are now the happening thing... I have to say I've been inspired by the music and dance I saw in clubs in Eastern Europe. I suppose if I was really ready and I'm not yet...I would like to begin something over there. I think i feel safer also in a country that is not currently heading in such a direction of repression as ours. I remember the time when there was no FM radio and all rock was then underground. I remember Jim Morrison coming into NYC to play for the first time. Even my own bands two vinyl recordings that ended up with only 3000 copies in closets, eventually got onto the internet and thirty years later became cult icons thanks to bootlegging and piracy and several generations of bands coming along and doing cover versions. Now, one of my band mates is performing at the Austin texas Folk Festival and in clubs in NYC and Chicago after being obscured for thirty years. As for me, according toi the newspaper I disappeared in Russia
yes l will sign a label that gives the accurate artist needs
i would be signed to my record company and matter of fact i would if any!any!record company might of fact i would sign with epic , atlantic ,YB ,and any other good record company
Why not try to make some kind of distribution deal with distributers, instead of a record company?, With allready quite succesful cd baby parents? If someone is selling constantly that is an indicator that it
would sell even more if given chance? ( realizing of course, that classical
and jazz and other not so mass appealing music forms may also be included, but with more limited editions? ( maybe big record companies
are holding distribution labels by the balls...so you couldn´t negotiate
a decent deal? ) Go figure...
Vyasa : CD Baby has done that already, but it is invitation-only. Meaning: if you have sold thousands through cdbaby.com they will contact you to invite you into a deal with Warner Music.
Derek : The only reason they want to get involved is the smell of money. Right? Not to support the Artist?? Like we.
But in that case Why would I sign? Cause I would have to give all
My hard earned money to them ( there´s one for you nineteen for me!!)That is their Agenda.
They have not done anything, so why should I give my control away?
Why one would want to support those people? ( is beyond me! )
Is it possible to create somekind of
New distribution company?
On basis like cd baby? Stores: Separate
cd baby sections? Might work in some places.
How about cd baby
radiostation supporting our artist? We´ll see...
An Enlightening story.
I saw an interview of Chris Squire. He said ; ´ After we finished 90125 which sold over 8 million copies, record company came to us saying
`Lads, We Just found a check for you... (1000 000 $ Lying in office somewhere accidentally misplaced for 10 years...They just found out this! )
Yeah! Right!...it was so hilarious that the guys just fell down laughing...!
Derek:
If you had a label of course I would love to be signed by it. You are totally trustworthy and give the artist creative freedom. Yes, let me know when you decide to do a label. I you don't sign me we could also work as partners.
I think your thing about having to be gigging, recording, and around for at least two years is ridiculous and the rest of it seems a little impossible to fit.
Is this like "If I had a hammer?" hahaha!
SO GLAD I just found this!!