Put buskers online
2009-12-09
Here's a business idea, inspired by an email from Stephen Brown today.
Put the street musician / busking process online. (“Busker” = “a person who entertains people for money in public places, while asking for money.”)
A website where videos of street musicians are collected all in one place, each with a PayPal link so anyone watching can give some money directly to that musician.
See a great musician playing on the street in Cuba, Argentina, Egypt, India, or anywhere else? Make the best recording you can with a video camera.
When they take a break, find out if they have a website and a PayPal address. If so, write it down. If not, set them up with one. (If they don't have email, set them up an email account first, then a PayPal account pointing to that email account, etc. Write down the info for them. Even if they can't access it yet, they will some day.)
Then, with their permission, upload the video to YouTube with their name, exact location, and email in the metadata.
Then go to this website and make a page for them. It only needs to ask a few things:
- Performer's name
- Email address (linked to PayPal)
- Exact location and date of performance
- URLs where videos and photos can be found
- Optional: text box for any other info you want to add
The site will automatically display the videos, and make a PayPal donate button that goes to the musician's account.
Anything to add or change to this idea? Brainstorm in the comments, here. Click any commenter's name to go to their website to contact them directly, if you want to get involved and make this happen.
why just street musicians?
Love this idea!
YES! Yes!! A thousand times yes!!! As a busker, I think this is brilliant!
Mac
An idea whose time has come..and at long last support for the independent musicians who are desperately in need of recognition for their talents without the music biz staring down their noses at freedom of expression.. KUDOS
for people that don't have the resources, then yes I think it's a nice idea. But I think that musicians, whether busking or not, should be responsible for doing this themselves.
... and most do, yes. So this could just be an easy system to help those that aren't set up to do this themselves yet - AND - making a cool site for people who prefer to sit and watch intimate streeet performances by a variety of musicians, worldwide. -- Derek
i saw a busker yesterday singing old harry chapin songs, his voice was sweeter than harry himself - i had to stop and listen a while. great idea to put buskers online!
That's actually a really lovely idea. If I had five seconds to rub together I would set it up!
I'm also skeptical as to whether anybody would really care about going to the website to watch the vids if they already have youtube and there are SO many home recordings already on there.
What a great Idea. There needs to be a mobile phone app associated with this idea.
i think that's a great idea. maybe you could rub heads with this photographer Rod Goodman. He's been photographing buskers in NYC for a while. Dig this: http://www.buskerproject.com/
"Then go to this website and make a page for them." ??
What is the website? Was there supposed to be a link in there somewhere, or am I missing something?
Doesn't exist yet. Just an idea, only 20 minutes old. -- Derek
why not expand the idea to bands that stream a song from a gig?!
The sad thing is, this might work.
Ha, nice one!
I agree with Fran, though - why just street musicians?
You can do this with people's live shows, or living room shows, or sitting-in-front-of-their-webcam shows...
Come to think of it, musicians could put out a "tip jar" of their own, on their own websites, under their own videos, too.
I love it!
As long it was their own material, no prob - but you'll run into infringement issues if millions of vids crop up using covers.
-- Derek
Good reason to let YouTube host the videos.
I'd like to see what happens in the part in which more connected people helps this kind of less connected people. It's certainly an opportunity to see emerging positive social experiences.
I like that spirit.
best
Brilliant Idea!!!!
This is a great idea to give some artists well needed exposure that they may not normally have due to their location in the world. always creating cool ideas Derek, nice work again!
With all of this new technology,life gets easier everyday. L.O.L.
Fran: I think, for one thing, keeping it just for street musicians makes it unique. To me, if it's all musicians, then it's really just another myspace.
That's a very interesting idea. In Thailand I have been recording short clips of the many buskers I encounter (I always make sure to give them 10 or 20 Baht) and I've been putting them up on Youtube and indicating where they are. Your idea takes that a few more steps and really brings the "Global Village" into play.
I've been a busker. Now I've started "online marketing". But if anyone starts that buskering business idea I'll go back to buskering. I have a PayPal account.
An excellent idea. Wow! I have a personal video collection of street performers all over the world as I've travelled. I wish this had been there for them!
Hi
I would really interested to develop this idea and would be happy to help make it happen and to the mix I would add a audio stream which could be all All Buskers All The Time - think this could be an awesome way to support street music and street musicians.
If anyone would like to talk contact me direct at my company website.
Not to be a fuddy-dud, but wouldn't P.R.O.s step in? If the busker is playing original music, then there isn't a problem. But wouldn't the guy playing Harry Chapin's music be required to pay a license? I know it seems petty, especially since they're street musicians. But I'm sure the laws that protect songwriters still apply in this case.
What about the mechanicals on those "old Harry Chapin" songs?
A good idea otherwise, but so are little coffeehouses giving musicians a chance to play until the licensing organizations make it cost prohibitive.
It may be too much to ask for common sense from a struggling industry
You laugh but that is exactly how I got started on my feature documentary I just released. I was so impressed with a street musician that I started filming him which then turned into a five year epic journey. For more information about the film please visit fullmoonlightnin dot com.
Very good idea. Similar to what Public radio would like, a donate button integrated into the internet radio stream.
Derek,
I did this about a year ago. I uploaded about 50 different remixes of video game music with a link to my albums priced at a dollar.
The idea was that if people wanted me to tip me a dollar for my efforts they could just get my album. I found the response to it was quite polar. Either people loved the idea or hated it. That told me it was a good idea.
youtube should ad the paypal button for donate to this musician. so it would be done!
Great idea Derek. Good on you.
I think its the previously mentioned copyright infringment that kills this idea. Artists like Sting etc. are most likely only too happy to turn a blind eye to buskers and people making tribute versions of their material. However performing an artists work for profit (fixed fee or charitable donation) is not going to get much approval from them.
That's a great idea! It could work for charity workers as well OR imagine the local BIG ISSUE guy with a video on YouTube saying "Would you buy my last Big Issue, please..." http://www.flickr.com/photos/claudioshots/119055638/
Wow, that is a cool concept, sinc buskers count on the generosity of passers by for income...and those passers by could be worldwide.
A website could limit them to original and public domain music, and that takes care of royalties due.
I blame all professional musicians because they are not helping buskers.
Splendid idea Derek that needs to be used. Funnily enough I'd just posted a blog on my site with the title "Being heard and cyber busking" http://www.algoodwin.com/news/article-1014
I'm still in the process of really getting this going i.e thinking of "cyber busk" as a theme and having my music FREE or make a donation, something like an open guitar case/hat with a chip in button so as to let people donate pennies or pounds.
All the same principal as when I was a busker in York and Holland (the best money I've ever made from music).
Your video idea is taking it to the next stage but basically it's share your music and the listener decides whether to chip in. I still always give to buskers on the tube.
Ok that's my two peneth and I'd better get my site sorted for this.
Love and music, Al.
There's actually a group called 'Southern Souls' that meets visiting performers, and shoots them playing their songs out in public.
It's pretty neat.
http://www.southernsouls.ca/
Wow, such a simple and great idea.
I'd be interested in getting involved -- I have expert level css/xhtml skills.
I love working with, and for, indie musicans.
I am a usability-driven web developer currently specializing in custom Wordpress sites.
Also co-founded a little online (color-tv!) music sales service for indie musicians: www.indiekazoo.com
Questo è il nuovo.Da questa idea ci possono essere tanti e nuovi sviluppi.
Derek- I always enjoy what you have to say. I can't do this for free but if someone has a modest budget they'd like to contribute, my web PR company can start building this site at cost this afternoon...
wil@richter10point2.com
Have a licensed site host the vids and copyright issues are covered under their agreements with the PROs. As Derek said, it's a good reason to let YouTube host the vids!
It sounds a great idea, cheap to implement and to maintain, and might benefit:
1) the buskers lovers, because they can find a collection of the best performances from all around the world
2) the buskers, because they can gain some extra money from their performance
3) the website owner, if he partecipates to some share of the revenues (at least to cover the maintainance and managing costs).
Now, a couple of questions to light up the brainstorming!
1) how large is the need for viewing this kind of art online, an art that is typically performed only live? Can the website revenues cover its developing, maintaining and managing costs?
2) the buskers often play cover songs. Which are the legal issues involved? Are they easy to solve and manage?
3) how many buskers all around the world are internet users with a paypal account? How many of them can really and easily get the money collected?
Derek, I adore all your posts, thanks.
Gabriele
Awesome idea!
Need any help with some coding, lemme know.
Starving musicians always have time! :-p
Great idea and easy to do. I'm glad to see these new ideas coming to fruition.
reminds me of the Joni Mitchell tune "For Free" which graphically depicted this...."he was playin real good for free"....
And you know at that moment Joni was transported on a street corner by this street musician-- and wrote a song about him- that reached the masses. Thats cool too and in a way better than money.
Sorry not for me...
I was just telling a buddy to try this a few days ago. I love it, I think it could be a fabulous way for anyone.
One of the best things about it that it could be a verifiable income stream based on plays.
and if the video also has metatags that send info the user, originator and//or a PRO...
a new model takes hold.
please let this come true
"how large is the need for viewing this kind of art online, an art that is typically performed only live?"
On this front I have to say if the intention was to limit the medium to original and public domain material as mentioned earlier and given that most clips are not going to be professionally shot . . . then not much demand (personally). To me it would be like watching a neighbours home video of a firework display they went to . . . just like being there . . . not!
I think the fan funding model is developing and becoming more credible.
Some sections of the industry - inevitably - hate it
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/sebastianscotney/100003775/fan-funding-comes-of-age-time-to-stop-sneering/
I'd love to do that for this musician, if she's okay with it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcJa08iWxbU
and several other great street musicians in SF.
This is a great idea. Working with a lot indie hip hop artists I've always told them that your best way to connect with the public is to bring the culture back to the street level where it enjoyed it's most success. I think that a lot of artists won't do it because of pride and mostly a lack of business sense. The only question is who's gonna domain the idea first?
yeh, why just street musicians?
I like the idea. One thing for anyone thinking of making this happen...
Is there a way to prevent people from making a video of a busker and uploading it to the site, but pointing the PayPal to themselves and exploiting the busker?
http://blackcabsessions.com/
Scout Niblett in a Black Cab: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QjgfVN_pp0
No tip jar. All famous-ish acts. But I love the constraints. I discovered some new musicians through this site.
Busker Baby!!! Indeed!!!
To be honest, this idea would have more legs if it were aimed at Myspace and backed by a Label promise. Eg: A band has a cash pot for fans to donate into, the label says it will sign and record any artist that gets X amount in donations, The label gets a fan driven proven demographic of whats popular in addition to skilled original material artists and the fans that donated get sent a copy of the first album either at discount or free for their patronage . . . . something along those lines anyway . .
"Is there a way to prevent people from making a video of a busker and uploading it to the site, but pointing the PayPal to themselves and exploiting the busker?"
Good point. . and no their probably isn't . . who would keep tabs
That'd be a lot of work for someone to go through, just to make a few dollars. But you're right, there should be a way for a musician to say “this is me performing in this video and I'm not receiving any money from this” - so we could remove it or whatever. -- Derek
Once again, great idea! Also, I think it's great that some of your repliers have had similar thoughts and or actions in that direction. That means, it's time has come.
Awesome idea.
Check out my recent blogpost on some Dublin buskers.
www.rootedgrass.com/search?q=empire
So, why haven't I done this for *me ? I probably have 40 videos of my performances online. How come I didn't think of this?
(Re: 'covers kill it'—um, perhaps, if you don't *know* whether it's an original or not, you could *ask* ? and then, y'know, don't post covers?)
What about copyright issues if the busker is doing a cover? Are you saying that by streaming from YouTube copyright laws don't apply?
This doesn't need to be an idea only for buskers. This is a way to get any artist out there and MAKING MONEY.
Makes me want to start busking.
If you did this, I think I'd become a street musician! Hhhmmmm, I'd need an accompanist, though.
"Why just street musicians?" Well...probably because they need the money to EAT, like most of the 6 billion people on earth they probably do not have computer access or an e-mail address. This is a form of non profit charity to help those in need who are trying to entertain, not promote the already privileged.
Before I made it frickin' big,;) we used to busk the streets, but what made it unique for us was having physical contact with passers by. Sitting on people's laps, bumping into them. There was a fine line and we were lucky not to get beat up a few times, but we were *very* successful making money. I really like your idea, but how can you substitute for that?
Can't. Wouldn't replace the in-person moment. Just add additional income to it, for those that can't be there. -- Derek
I think it's a great idea.
However with the IRS now looking at Paypal records due to all the unreported online sales I can see this getting sticky.
I often see a PP donate button on myspace musician profiles. I am curious if they actually get any donations
"However with the IRS now looking at Paypal records due to all the unreported online sales I can see this getting sticky."
Not to mention anyone busking for a few quid on the side and claiming social security
No need to reinvent the wheel.
sounds like a mashup of youtube paypal and ning.com
Exactly! The site itself would require very little. Doesn't even need Ning's extra features. Just a simple 2-table database (artists + urls) and a couple simple queries to browse and display. -- Derek
In essence, live musicians are buskers. Outside of talent, some are more organized and better market (sell) themselves. Some remain on the street corner, others sell CD's, gather a fan base, leverage it, and eventually rent a venue and pack it with that cultivated fan base. Online may just be another "street corner" to do it from. Talent alone is not enough. Self starter entrepreneurial mentality, appeal, and undying tenacity help even the odds a bit.
I think theres plenty of mileage in having a site (linked from artist sites, CDBaby etc), where artists can schedule live gigs, or simply go on with an impromptu performance via their webcam, 'in the rock room'(or whatever genre) for viewers to sample and linger, especially if there was immediate feedback - a clappometer, best rated tracks, selections, no. of viewers and most popular performers/performances.
It would be just the ticket for musicians with families and jobs, who could play from their 'living rooms' and build a following with the bonus of income.
I love this idea and have another that's quite similar. To add to this discussion, however, I'll ask the question:
Why just musicians? How about a site that takes street performers of any stripe, posts a representation of their performance, and presents a way for people to send money to the performer (PayPal probably being the easiest)?
Jugglers, magicians, sidewalk artists, even (shudder) mimes!
Re: legal issues: If the site is presenting a recording of a public performance would it not be the performer's obligation to pay the requisite fees? I am, as they say, not a lawyer, so that may not be the case. Something to look into, though.
As for a business model, the site could take a small cut to pay to keep the lights on and 1% to go to something like Derek's charity for musical education.
Kick ass idea derek bro....we got to get this
Started for all the independet musicians soon.
I wish we had this wen we started out in India.
Adi
Good example of helping get a busker online: http://www.changeyourreality.com/blog/2007/04/22/techies-unite-give-bucketman-a-site/
Aren't buskers somewhat like indie publishers & authors on social media? So, YES.
"legal issues: If the site is presenting a recording of a public performance would it not be the performer's obligation to pay the requisite fees? I am, as they say, not a lawyer, so that may not be the case. Something to look into, though."
The problem is 'who wants to police it' under this proposal youtube would be the host and first in the firing line from the PRS and MCPS. You could have no end of disclaimers saying original material only but someone will always break those terms . . also then consider as a busker with a mix of original and cover material, who wants to sign up on the offchance some well meaning do-gooder drops you in it to the tune of 250,000 or prison because they uploaded the wrong part of your set ?
My husband told me about one MySpace site he saw in which the artist had a button for "Buy me a beer?" which I presume was some kind of link to paypal so if you liked his music, you could contribute a small sum without being embarrassed for not buying the whole album.
Made sense to me; why not have contribution buttons on all MySpace sites?
As a busker myself all over Europe, I often fantasized about variations on this idea but rarely had an address or home never mind a computer.
I wondered if I couldn't make live videos and put them on line and ask for tips. Or announce live web cam concerts by buskers once they have a following. Or set a destination and let donators watch your progress.
Neat idea. Bring on the euros.
Never going to work. Some of them does not have a home, will you set up one for them? Computer and PayPal usage requires some basic IT skills. They have to have a credit/debit card, if they have such, how are they paying the monthly/yearly fee for that? Do you think there will be a bank which issues a credit card for them?
There is something good in the idea, but I would not invest in it in that "shape". Perhaps You can elaborate on it a little bit more.
Yeah, all the legal hassles put a damper on it.
So far, all the parodies I've put up have not run into problems, so I'm a little curious how youtube can get a blanket license for that?
Like, if I found someone covering one of my songs, should I get ASCAP on the case?
As if they care about lil' indies like me?
helping people up! cool!
I like the idea a lot.. One more way to put it out there
A QR code that takes you to the web site where people can contribute would be handy too for those using smartphones.
i think with all the shameless self promotion going on these days on the internet, there is something cool about a street performer that we shouldnt even mess with.if they want to be online and make a few bucks thats fine and dandy but untill then you'll just have to go out into the streets and see them the old school way.
"So far, all the parodies I've put up have not run into problems, so I'm a little curious how youtube can get a blanket license for that?"
They don't . . essentially if the artists you parody wanted to be sh*ty about it then they could have you stuff taken down and/or pursue it further if they wanted . . however no artist that wants to remain popular with the fans is going to go after a fan/tribute. They only concern themselves with people who distribute their official music videos denying them royalties paid out of advertising revenues from the music channels like MTV
Not sure I LOVE the idea, but I like it much. The fact that it is SO "out of the Box" is why Sivers is so F!KN dangerous!!!!
"i think with all the shameless self promotion going on these days on the internet, there is something cool about a street performer that we shouldnt even mess with.if they want to be online and make a few bucks thats fine and dandy but untill then you'll just have to go out into the streets and see them the old school way."
Too true and well said . . . if only we could get all the people who just want to be famous via X-factor American Idol etc and sent them out into the street . . . . period
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuzE7lo51uo
I think that's a wonderful idea!
(For one having performed in the streets and subways of NYC..it's rough out there...nothing like playing for a few hours and watching some dollar bills accumulate....and the to turn around again to look at your guitar case and see that it's empty!)
However, I also must say...that many times...people performing in the streets don't have credit cards or "PayPal accounts"....you need one to get the other I'm sure. Many times they won't even have even a place to live much less a computer to log into any accounts!. Many times some musicians can only log on occasionally thru their libraries,etc. I know one guy who lived in a cabin in Alaska...not a musician...but he only occasionally made it into town to log on to check emails. So maybe just if they have a website with an email address you can contribute to this musicians quest for musicianship by sending him an email and saying hello! Perhaps you can send him monies another way, such as regular snail mail even?
I think the fastest way to make this happen would be to make handbills with the idea and all the details. Give that to the buskers you see. I think a good percentage of them would be motivated enough to set this up on their own. That inertia would inspire other musicians to do the same ( think CD Baby!).
Then it would just involve making the site be like a membership site and have a public section to search the videos and pay.
That would also remove the blame somewhat if users are posting copyrighted material, etc.
Now you can busk from the comfort of your own living room if you have webcam!! Like it!!
love the idea, and if it were as simple as something like (the beautifully simple, plagued with lawsuits site) Muxtape, it would definitely set itself against generalist sites like YouTube.
will stay tuned.
Most buskers do covers. How do the writers get paid? What limitations does this put on the idea? Must it be limited to writing musicians only? If not, it is clearly a money-making idea using someone elses music...
I've done a lot of busking and been recorded, so I naturally think this is brilliant.
I would, however, be a bit concerned that there would be no accountability for whether or not the paypal account went to the musician or just to someone who recorded them on the street or ganked the recording off the internet - especially give most buskers I know aren't my most tech savvy friends.
On the other hand, this sort of piratry goes often unnotice on these here interwebs.
And the occasional busker does do something about infringements on their rights. I know an amazing busker who rolls his old upright out into Pike Place Market every day to make his living, and he's currently suing Starbucks for using his image in their "Pike Place Market" Roast without asking his permission.
Great, great idea. May be later can grow to other forms of street art: theatre, painting, mime, etc, etc.
(groan) Just give the busker 20 bucks instead. That's more $ than he's
made all day and he'll be able to eat that day.
http://www.southernsouls.ca/
interesting website, first video
i tried was a turn-off, like a so-so performer on the old gong show.
but very nice appealing eye hooking site.
the majority of buskers that i have witness, except for a great bunch of black musicians in philly, belong on the street or more likely, the alley.
just because someone stums an instrument and talks-sings some words --- does not make them a musician, makes them an earache.
allentown, pa use to give permits to street performers of all kinds, that lasted for one summer, no one really cared.
i wonder why?
bright musical ways
ian
Isn't the busker part of the culture or community of an area? Wouldn't this possibly make people more inclined to sit on their ass and not go out to see them. Shouldn't these people do this on their own if they care to? I disagree with the idea as everyone else's responsibility.
I love this idea
Nahhhhhhhh. Street performance is inherently an in-the-moment cash-based operation. Too many steps. And most people who make a living on the street don't have computers, let alone the bank account and credit card you need to get a PayPal account. Been there, lived that.
A couple of issues to be solved:
1. You can't get a paypal account to receive money everywhere. (I know, last I checked I could only get one that allowed me to pay people but not to let people pay me. I passed up on this wonderful opportunity.)
2. Copyright issues unless they are doing original music. (Or music with Free licenses and you handle the rest properly. This is a commercial game right?
all the best,
drew
--
http://freemusicpush.blogspot.com/
Brilliant idea!
Here's a sample implementation:
pleasehelpmepayoffmyhouse.com
great idea!
What about starting an internet busking movement? This way people could stay off the street and put more time into recording better music. Also, nobody will get beat up
I'm also thinking about musicians that are not necessarily willing to go out on the street or even recording artists like myself. I know I'd be willing to let people listen to my music and donate to a virtual hat.
You mean something like this? http://www.buskercentral.com/
Having been a busker myself for years I have a pretty good idea of the mindset that you will sometimes run into. Buskers often have a individuality that gets in the way, and an unshakable mistrust of anything organized. It can be like herding cats.
Furthermore, I think regional web sites are a better idea – regional connected by a national and then international site. There are millions of players out there.
I'm curious to see whether a significant number of listeners will actually tip performers in an online environment. When you're standing right in front of a musician for 10 minutes, and you see the guitar case sitting there full of bills and coins, I think there's a certain social pressure to chip in that encourages (some) folks to leave money. Thus far, for whatever reasons, online tipping/micropayments haven't really caught on (RIP tipjoy)...
Not a bad idea, but how easy would it be to have someone record a street musician that doesn't have regular access to a computer, set up an account for a him/her, and totally rip that person off by having their paypal account linked instead?
I think there still needs to be some kinks worked out...
Check out my "Buskers Corner Newsletter" It's sorta like your idea.
http://www.johnnybonneville.com/bio.html
I'm not convinced this idea needs "a site of its own".
Rather, this should be the "new standard" consideration for posting music vids in general.
1. YouTube already allows users to place "pop-up" text messages with links... include a PayPal link. (of course you'll still need the PayPal email addie... merely details)
2. YouTube *could* automate this thru user settings and share the revenue like CDBaby used to.
3. Embeds vids are viral and live everywhere.
peace-
seanrox
How is that a business idea?
Where does the revenue of the guy who runs the site come from?
Good question. Forgot to address that. If costs are kept low - this is just a weekend project - then any trickle of income through donations or whatever would keep it profitable. -- Derek
"See a great musician playing on the street in Cuba, Argentina, Egypt, India, or anywhere else? Make the best recording you can with a video camera."
This is the only real challenge I see in this idea. Making a truly quality vid is not necessarily hard by today's home-video standards. The difficult part will be in advertising for videographers.
I suppose the site could have 2 purposes, one for viewing, and one for submission/entrants. Entrants would register, because they've seen advertisements for the site, and are interested in the concept. Once registered, they can enter the submission process, an automated page, with fields to upload the video, cover pics of the artist, name, loc, etc, etc. This info is then parsed to photobucket, youtube, and the site database (for the text info).
The viewers side would be am interface similar to a youtube channel, which pulls right from the various parsed links/database. Add a donate button.
Voila, you have a site devoted to the promotion of independent street artists, and those who wish to promote them through their own video talents. Win win for both parties, and both are technically amateur productions, so cost is really low.
Just have to find a decent site designer :P But yeah, it could work, this is one of those business ideas where being careful how you define the starting point comes in. This can be boiled down quickly into chicken and the egg, if you're not careful. In other words, w/o proper planning, you'd end up w/a great concept but no real material or involvement. I've seen quite a few sites that started up in this vein, only to go quietly into obscurity, because they started with a handful of product (in this case, artist videos) but no one afterward got involved enough to keep it going.
a few thoughts after reading through a bunch of these comments:
not sure the site would really work as proposed due to all the aforementioned legal issues, and the fact that most folks don't support street performers in the 'real' world much less once removed. people will hardly take the steps to buy an actual product on line much less take the time to make a small donation.
however, as an artistic idea, it might have some merit--and yes, as someone mentioned above, i think keeping it 'unique' to street musicians would be best, otherwise it's just another cluster-f**k of musicians trying to promote their music. i think the limited perspective is more interesting, and it would indeed need to be global--a sort of meeting of the world's street musicians.
now that said, i would also think it would be best to be moderated or 'juried'---that is, make it the very best stuff---keep the quality up so that people would have a reason to go to the site. i know this goes against the 'indie' thing to a degree, but as someone mentioned above, and i agree with, a good deal of street musicians i hear are not very good, and i'm not sure a site full of mediocre or bad performances will be interesting. but the few street performers i've heard who are really good would be great to capture. so i think as a social documentation it could work, but then somebody is putting in of their own time for no returns--except to make a site dedicated to showing off really cool street performers world wide.
a lot has been said about street performers not having paypal/credit cards, so no more on that.
in terms of getting people to visit such a site, it seems that somebody sort of known(like derek) would need to be involved..just as there are many people commenting here, it doesn't necessarily just happen for everyone. example-if a new band comes out and puts up a website, probably not many people will visit at first--it would require a commitment from the band and fans to grow it---however, if that band had dave grohl as a member......
an interesting idea, but maybe with a different outcome or premise.
advancing mark johnson's successful 'playing for change' concept into a commercial online format to include the multitudes.
also make it possible for out-of-work or disenchanted recording/film savvy folks to go out into the real world, engage in quality, fulfilling projects, and help make the world a kinder, gentler, more peace-loving place.
@Kenneth M. Schick I agree that there will need to be moderation, or perhaps a rating system, viewer-based. This would quickly resolve the mediocre aspects. People can rate presentation, sound quality, performance, whatever they may like.
Also, Derek I just realized ONE way to actually generate revenue without having to plaster banner ads everywhere would be to create 2 types of viewer accounts. Casual viewers could be free members. Pro viewers (talent scouts) would be expected to pay a minimal fee, defined by you, since you're more expert on that than say... me, lol
Being from Boston, originally I'm no stranger to the street artist scene (Harvard Square, anyone?) In particular there was a S. American group who got their start playing those streets, they even started producing CDs and selling for 5 bucks a pop, before they finally got picked up by a label. Now they were phenomenal musicians, and had an excellent stage presentation, with costumes, dance, etc. So they're not the norm, but... they are not so unique that such street performances would not be unatainable elsewhere.
Hell NOW I live outside New Orleans, 'bout an hour's drive. And there you will oft' find grade a talent, beat boxers, break core dancers, lots of good stuff.
Oh and another point derek, you should think about turning these blogs into a Forum (using PHP), it'd make discussion much easier, and allow for things like post editing, etc. ^^
Peace,
G
Very good idea, Derek! I'm in Florida, and there aren't any street musicians, as far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong). However, musicians here, in general, myself included, are not much different than a street musician - trying to work in today's economy. Prices for a performance range anywhere from "What does your budget allow?" to "Tirame algo." (That's a Spanish term meaning "Just throw me something!") The only difference is we don't ask for a "donation" perse. (On second thought, a tip jar serves somewhat the same purpose.) You best LOVE what you do when you work in the music industry, be it on the street or in a theatre. It's wonderful of you to want to help, Derek!
all technicalities of the website aside...
the busker/musician side of me says yes, anything to promote street music and support musicians. great line of thinking.
The other side of me says that it lacks one of the most important aspects of busking...live music interacting spontaneously with the public in a promising display of culture and realness. Busking has something that does not translate online or even at indoor shows.
Absolutely yes. Indeed worth the shot.
The copyright issues discussed here are moronic. If someone is performing a so-called 'copy protected' song on a street corner, are we seriously claiming that the performer needs to pay royalties? To whom? And how much?
Folks, this is bogus. Copy protection was invented for mass media, not for one-to-one, or one-to-few situations. If you're a DJ having your radio show, then chances are you'll be reaching thousands, if not millions of people. And if you amass popularity by playing back copy protected material, then the artists' lawyers will track you down.
But applying that to street corner performers is the pinnacle of insanity. Anyone who claims that is off their rocker.
Besides, pretty much all that the performer would have to do to avoid any repercussions is simply rename the posted song. So, instead of saying "here is me performing 'Yesterday'", the guy can say "here is me performing 'Oh I believe'", or something like that. No one will catch that there is any potential violation.
Just as long as the person creating the website actually gives the money to the street musician, this is a very cool idea I think...
The website would never touch the money. It would PayPal directly from donor to musician, never touching the site owner's hands. -- Derek
I have Street busked often over the years and my open Sax case has often been graced with quite a few dollars..However, the Idea is fine Derek but I can see problems with transmitting Cover songs owing to a license required to do this. Perhaps a blanket license something like the Radio Stations use could be the way to go...Just my 2 cents worth.
Billy the Busker.
Well, one option would be for an entrepreneur to offer a service we might call The Buskers Network. The busker would agree to pay a modest percentage of his/her take to the Network, in exchange for webpage creation, backend services (read hardware), etc.
so many different ideas. I really like the consortium idea here. There could be great networking between locations/musicians. For me street performing is more about the purity of the art without the industry putting it's heavy hand in. What the internet has done is push the big guys out of the way. This idea might work. I'd love to be involved.
Would the street musician not need to provide ID and a valid bank account and routing # in order to accept money via PayPal? It may be different now but I remember jumping through hoops a few years ago to get my PayPal working.
That's what you need to get cash out of PayPal and into your hand, yes. But if they can't do that, they can use the money in their PayPal account to either buy something online or send it to someone they know and trust who has a PayPal account that can pay them cash for the transfer, etc. -- Derek
The main reason buskers are able to get tips from people is the personal interaction. You walk by someone, enjoy what he/she is doing, and offer some money.
Watching and paying online isn't the same experience, so I don't think it will be as successful.
I don't know that it's perfectly universal, but I've had people PayPal me money to the wrong email address (I have many, not all connected to my PayPal account.)
I simply went to PayPal, proved I owned the address, and moved the money to my account.
While it's possible there could be issues, it'd sure be simple to just do this and try it out.
What a fantastic idea. In developing countries that may not have access to the internet, is there a way that Western Union could have some kind of alliance with PayPal. Many people use Western Union to send money back home to their relatives. This is just a thought. Avil Beckford
Worth a try! Music has a special life on the street, at the park, in the terminal, on the ferry.
Get out and go guerilla, like U2, The Beatles, Neil Young, just to mention some famous purveyors of hit and run performance.
I like the notion of decommodifying it by taking it out of the concert hall/club. It will work as a promotion tool, and some people will really be tools about the promotion aspect, but the heart and spirit behind the songs could really breathe in the open air, too!
I too can see the danger of busker exploitation here.
Are people thinking on making one video and asking money for showing it for the next year? I saw a street artist sit beside the same picture for 2 years. I saw other street artists who drew their pictures on cardboard then packed them up each night and set them out again in the next town. No one even knew if they'd actually drawn them. What's to prevent musicians making a single video and sitting back to wait for the profits? (An inviting idea, I must admit.)
Perhaps I could draw a picture every day and put it on the web.
For the concept to work, a busker would have to genuinely go busking and record his set. put it on the web for a week then repeat the process at the next town. Does that make any sense?
As someone mentioned, there is no substitution for actually being out there on the street, learning that craft. And anyway what about the stories. Busking tales are some of the most hysterical anecdotes I have ever heard.
All the same, busking on the web sometimes sounds very inviting. Especially in winter.
Then again with everyone busking the web, I'd have no competition for a pitch on the street.
Thumbs up but needs some good planning.
Just thinking out loud.
James
I'm thinking that comment #111 is actually the simplest and most straightforward way to implement this idea. Anyone at all can take a video and upload it and establish the PayPal account. Call it "The Busker Project" and everyone who uploads titles the video "The Busker Project: Whatshisname Whosis in PerformanceTown", write a description that includes a link to the PayPal account, and tags it with a list of keywords. The existing busker sites that have been mentioned could include a page about the project with a link to the complete list of tagged videos. Voila! The only cost is the time to upload and establish the PayPal account.
So what are all of you who have mentioned that you have videos of buskers waiting for??
How would I, if I implemented this idea, make money for myself?
You couldn't simply use PayPal, why route all the money to the musicians for all the work you are doing. You need to take some cut of the profit.
The payment system needs to be thought up more clearly on this idea.
A site like this could be built in a few hours of spare time, and could run for $20/month webhosting. There's no need for the site owner to take a cut. The occasional donation to the site itself (if over $20/month) could keep it profitable. -- Derek
...it's a wonderful idea!...finally, almost a level playing field...(assuming you can find someone to shoot the video).
I'm still trying to wrap my mind around it, it's so fresh to me, but it'd be a great marketing tool for me, as per most of the year, I'm geographically isolated anyway (Hawaii).
There's too many musicians, and most street performers I have ever seen are just plain awful, which is exactly why they are performing on the street and not in a club. If street performers can't get a proper professional booking then I wish most of them would make room on the sidewalk and leave the performances to those who have to support themselves and their families with it.
Actually it's a good idea as there are some very talented buskers out there.
I'm curious how people living in Cuba or other countries where everything is under government scrutiny would be able to make any money off of busking. It's an interesting subject because I know money is desperately needed but how much would the government take? How would they access pay pal or banks if they are not allowed to or if getting access to a computer is something that they can't afford? It's easy for me to say it would be great but I live in a free country. ...
i am glad this idea is out now as i remeber i asked you about a 2 years ago and again two weeks ago to have the hat thing(busking) for downloads at cd baby...
love marco
Derek ... they do already have a cyber-form of this, but it's actually cooler in that instead of just busking, you actually play cyber-clubs ... while an on-line audience watches you perform & hears the actual audio (mic'd on your end through your computer) of you playing live ... & as I understand it, the on-line audience can even give you actual tips (which go to your paypal account) while you're playing! It's called Second Life.
My friend Debbie Henning plays almost all of her gigs this way now, without ever leaving her living room, and has built up a good on-line following & makes quite a bit of money doing this ...
In fact, she has a show today (Dec 9) in Second Life at 6pm -- here's a link to her show today ... & it's free to sign up to see (or do your own shows) ...
http://slurl.com/secondlife/City%20of%20Venna/79/88/22
If you miss that one, she has another show tomorrow (Dec. 10) at 6pm ...
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Tiatopia%20Island/80/128/25
I do think it would be even better if you could just do live video/audio in real life instead of having to create a cyber-character, but the latter seems like fun too!
Anyway, check it out & I can send you her e-mail if you have direct questions for her about how it works & is working for her ...
Peace,
Beth
What is ning.com ?
Go to ning.com and you will see. -- Derek
I'm an idiot.
I was just about to write about Second Life when I saw the second to last (when I read it) comment beat me to it!
I have been playing "live" shows, complete with interaction with my acoustic a few mics and my computer in my basement. I have gotten fans from all over the world helping me out, attending shows, and, yes, tipping me!
it's a pretty sweet deal some nights, and not others, just like "real-life" busking.
basically everything plugs into the computer and you can either watch my avatar rock out for you or (if you aren't in SL) click on the stream and give it a listen through the wonders of the interwebs...
if you're on SL, check me out: I'm Dann Numbers on SL (Dann Russo in RL) an I'm playing an all-Beatles show this Sunday morning eastern standard time...
peace,
Dann
I saw a busker months ago who had a great and unique voice and I thought it'd be great if the world could hear and see him online. I forgot this idea until you bring it up here. See if I can meet him again.
This is fantastic! I have a friend who does this kind of tip jar thing on a crazy "avatar" type site and that's just too weird for me. But watching and listening to the real person would be fabulous. I have heard that Youtube pays folks for over a million views, but this would be way better, more grassroots.
Derek, you're a special dude.
blessings,
Laurie
The key would be to NOT include anybody already signed to a major label... online sites are already dominated by major label promotions and it buries independent unsigned artists amidst the big ad $ of the corps. I mean, what's to stop Taylor Swift from putting up a "street video" and getting donations from her loyal fans?
Would the busker pay a fee to cover licensing...like a blanket/subscription? Where does the public performance royalty fit in?
aha see #122.
Wow, what a great idea! I've seen so many wonderful street musicians through my travels and always wondered if there was a way of building a business around their performances...
I'd be more than glad to collaborate on this!
Great idea'would love to see this one happen,just make it for all buskers world wide not just Americian buskers.
Peace.
AWesome concept....Im a busker as well as performer in venues and love the idea....My mind is on tha case 2 help make this a reality....
..p.s what about the concept on performing rolayties 4 buskers as well....i put a apra return in every year 4 venues i play at but also do alot of busking of my orginal songs to....Z
Derek,
Thanx for all your great input. I am a singer songwriter from Paris France that now lives in Portland Oregon.
I do a lot of videos of my musical Journeys across the World. Arriving in Portland, I did one of a busker that plays blues.
I thought I would share it :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xejOzWQMKrE
I hope it helped him get some recognition.
The paypal idea is a good one.
All the best,
Eric John Kaiser
What is ning.com ?
Go to ning.com and you will see. -- Derek
I did, and I didn't get it. I guess my brain is just fried at the moment. Havn't had carbs in 3 days. Will check it out another time then, perhaps after having eaten carbs.
Lol.
Thanks
Love it Derek! You are really a sweetheart, always looking out for others. It's probably important to say that the money donated is a gift, not a tax deductible charitable donation. Also seems that the busker would need to understand their role in reporting income and paying any licensing. Red tape, I know. But you always manage to cut through that! Having survived an audit, we are acutely aware of the business end of this.
Don't have any advice, but I can tell Muckworks is going to be great since you have it in your heart and mind to be of service to other musicians!
Bad idea; it fosters more of the "support live music" mentality. That's destructive to what we do. A musician should earn their audience and always conduct themselves professionally. This too much like asking for a handout
Amanda Palmer's recent take on the topic, from a musician's perspective: http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/200582690/why-i-am-not-afraid-to-take-your-money-by-amanda
HINT: In case no one mentioned it yet, donating via PayPal as either a personal gift or for living expenses gives your busker / other creative type 100% of the donation. (PayPal takes no cut.)
I've been busking for the last 14 years, and I appreciate that there is an increasing awareness of this art. I would be interested in cyber busking and curious to see if it could work.
I define "busking" as turning a stranger into a paying customer in a few seconds and for me, this involves personal interaction. I have accepted that people rarely pay me for my music separate from my interaction with them that connects them to my music. Actually making decent money busking is so much more than just playing well. Ask Joshua Bell!
But that is my style of interactive busking. CNN did a nice 2 minute video on my show two months ago that you can see here: www.curtisblues.com/CNN.htm
Derek I owe you so much for CDbaby brother. This interactive dialogue you are inspiring is really fantastic!
Curtis Blues
Just create the website and let people create their own busking videos. Best way to do it, have it be live and let them be playing live, real busking online.
Real real busking would be to have
It's the best idea I've heard in a long time.
I'm on the fence on this one. Do we not spend a bit too much time playing with our computers and not enough time on face-time anyway? On the other hand I am happy for any way for musicians to earn a bit more, particularly buskers. It takes a special talent to be a good musician AND good on the street, which is what I think you are aiming at catching. I liked the above idea of regional groupings, then national, then international. Just base it from China. The copyright thing is probably not going to be too much of an issue... : - )
I'm a busker and have been doing so off and on for the past 5 years. It's hard... REALLY hard... especially when trying to make a living at it... it's already SO hard to get people to tip you that I don't think people are going to do it through the net... if the content is there already and is for free they won't do it unless they ABSOLUTELY love you and have been following you for years and even then... plus... asking someone to tape you while playing is a pain and to set up your own recording device may allow it to get stolen...
RE: #58 Preventing Would Be Scammers. Reverse the process. The paypal tied email address appears at the end of the video on a hand written piece of cardboard. Maybe for spam reasons, the email address rejects anything but paypal contact.
Good idea but; I kinda agree with one of your other commentators who mentioned copyright infringement policy's, in this sue happy society we live in today it might not work.
Reff:
http://biblebrowser.com/2_timothy/3-13.htm
Love it!! And more from the sense of really capturing the art of the live street musicians from around the world; some of the most incredible music is expressed this way and is unharmed by over production and comercial marketing and packaging, and giving them a virtual tip jar. I've busked and am shocked by those who look down on it, it's an experience I wish everyone could try. I would so dig seeing a collection of street musician performances, far more than a second life thing or people playing in their homes. That's all cool too but there's an artistic gritty angle to capturing these street moments. It's real, love it!
I wish someone could work out a micro-payment system. That way you could send a couple of cents to 100 musicians. Yes, it would be only 2¢ each, but it could add up. Or, if you think someone's song is worth a dime, throw a dime in.
Unfortunately, PayPay's off-the-top cut makes this impossible.
How about it, Derek? You could save the world again with the invention of a micro-payment system!
Great idea! I agree with setting up the youtube channel initially, with donations.
You must have contact with many of these buskers, have you considered streaming live performances to a single website as well as simply having videos? A link to your website would be made available on the videos, and I'm sure you have a mailing list to let people know. Underneath the live video you could also have a forum whilst you watch (like on youtube), integrating social media and enticing people back.
So when you get a mailing list, add me.
chazzlet@hotmail.co.uk
Also you might want to check out 'playing for change' (whack it into youtube).
The site should probably have a quick "Find Artist" button. Otherwise there's the risk of having multiple pages for the same person...
I was a busker for several years and thought up this same idea a while back. The problem with a website though is that it runs counter to what buskers do. They don't gather in a place of performance where people visit to hear them. Buskers go to where there are people, to where there is pedestrian traffic in order to be heard. If we had to wait for people to find us, we'd hardly be heard. The internet equivalent of busking would be to insert video performance alongside other websites with a link to the "busker site" in order to hear more and possibly donate--almost like solicitation. I know we all get annoyed at even seeing commercial advertisements pop up with Yahoo or other sites, but that's the way public performance works: it annoys some people and greatly pleases others. Passersby never ask to be entertained, but many people do appreciate it. But they never visit a place to hear buskers, so they're certainly not going to type in a web address to hear them on their own accord. That would be a private space when "all the world's a stage".
needed ..time n time again.....millions trillions quadrillions...n so on...blessed love n business.
They should put people having sex online.
We have been buskers for 10 years. While I like the idea and I support it, I am sceptical that tips would actually be made via paypal. In the real busking world, tips come from a very small percentage of those who pass by. Even without tips, the exposure could be good and might result in paying gigs. Go for it.
Great idea! If it gains a critical mass and becomes trendy, it could even come to be a source of usable income.
As a professional musician who also busks, I must strongly disagree with the comment about professional musicians somehow being at fault and owing buskers help. It seems that everyone has contempt for musicians, expecting us to donate our services for everything from benefits to private parties and such. We have huge investments in instruments and gear, and these require costly maintenance to keep them in proper working order. We also have to haul all this equipment, set it up, tear it down, etc. Everyone else at these functions gets paid. Why am I expected to WORK for free?
And if I play for free, everyone expects it, so my perceived value drops.
With my rant out of the way, I've helped thousands of buskers, not because I owe them, but because I'm usually a nice guy.
I had a PayPal "tip jar" on my site for years. I made around US$50, which didn't even cover the cost of the site ($4 per month), so I closed it. I won't tell you it's good - you'll have to hear it for yourselves and form your own opinion. I have videos on youtube (look up Ironman Curtis) of my one man band. I play stuff like Take 5/Blue Rondo A La Turk on harmonica, guitar, and organ bass pedals, which made it to #7 on the Minnesota jazz charts a few years back. My music has been very highly reviewed.
The buskers that make the most are the ones that put the money first, and do whatever rakes in the most tips. Another one man band (he's quite good, too) that plays Venice boardwalk will play maybe 10-15 seconds, and then shamelessly badger those who've gathered for tips. He's rude and insulting. And he usually makes several hundred dollars a day.
-Mike
I've worked a life time to play what I have in my heart. To hell with money! Don't let it corupt your music. They may get your soul, but don't let them get your music. Keep that pure to your heart.
I've worked a life time to play what I have in my heart. To hell with money! Don't let it corupt your music. They may get your soul, but don't let them get your music. Keep that pure to your heart.
I have busked in just about every country I have visited. In many cases it was just for the fun of it and to get beer and parking money. The main thing is that I am busking to share my music with whoever is listening at the time. Whether they pay or not, is irrelevant.
That being said, there are some very talented musicians playing on the streets. On the other hand, there are some very bad untalented musicians playing on the streets. The public votes with their change and bills. If there is a crowd around the busker, then it is a sign that the busker is talented and I generally listen for a while and pay for the experience. The key is that I pay at the moment of listening, not later on a pay pal enabled web site.
In our greater recession, there are a lot more musicians on the street playing to earn some money. I try to support as many of them as I can. It is cash and there is no record for irs.
Conventional wisdom-don't fix something if it isn't broken.
Like the organ grinder and the monkey, buskers have earned their rightful place in history.
further to this interesting idea: imagine a virtual street on the web where performers could busk via streaming live video. no recordings - only live. then the immediacy which is special to performance would be preserved.
how pay musicians?:
advertising revenues are divided amongst the buskers based on the amount of time users spend viewing their stream.
AND/OR
online payments are put into a communal tip pool and divided in a similar manner
"I've worked a life time to play what I have in my heart. To hell with money! Don't let it corupt your music. They may get your soul, but don't let them get your music. Keep that pure to your heart." - Brad Parker
I must laugh at this comment. How can a piece of paper be corrupt? I believe it is people that are corrupt, not an inanimate object.
Nevertheless, this idea could not work well unless there was profit motivation behind it. You cannot simply devote your time doing all this work and either just covering costs or making a tiny bit more per month.
Eventually you will get bored of it and the website will die.
Perhaps the only way to do such a thing is to make an automatic aggregation of sorts that scours the interwebs for these buskers and creates a small artist template off the bat automatically. Of course you couldn't hook up a PayPal account, but perhaps that can be done later down the road, at least you would be sharing these people's music with the world.
But like others have said I don't really think I'm going to go to a site that's about busker just to be linked back to youtube to watch their videos. I'd rather just go to youtube and type in buskers and go from there. Your probably overthinking the thing, simply having an account on youtube with playlists of various buskers, like "Best Buskers of 2009" would do just fine for what you are trying to do.
nice idea, but how can u get money? how can u earn? only advertisement??
I think this is a great idea, and I'm interested to see how it can pan out.
I've registered the domain name:
http://www.global-buskers.net
and it's now parked as an add-on domain to my current website. (I had a couple open spaces to fill and this seems like a worthwhile use.) It's just a plain index page at the moment, waiting to see what we can come up with.
I'm not a website developer or coder, so anyone interested in working on that stuff, I'd really appreciate a hat tossed into the ring.
Email at the site is simply to: admin@[name-of-website-already-mentioned].net or the email linked to this comment (which probably would be a more direct way to get in touch).
Let's see what happens!
--- Robert
How would you know the Paypal account is actually for the busker?... it could be setup by any old fraudster claiming they're the busker and taking all the money.
What a cool idea!
So, how do we work the logistics -- securing host, server space, getting start up funds, etc.? I could imagine this becoming pretty big. FWIW, "streetmusic.com" and "streetmusic.org" are both available and seem like pretty snappy, memorable names.
The problem in the process arrives when you're trying to explain to the musician how PayPal works. Paypal is not a widely used service in Argentina where I live.
I think it would not be too useful in the short run for someone that does not even understand the service.
However it's still a very nice idea and doesn't make any harm at all. One day the musician might have some extra money to use.
Excellent idea >A friend of mine in Canada who is a pro musician invited a street pan-piper from Chile to a studio session, whiped out a CD which the guy began sellign and paid the pro back in a month and now has 6 CDs to sell and is a radiant person, etc. Fernan, the piper, tells me he makes 10 times the $ now. I saw a kid playing accordion on the Aran Islands, and made a video-- he's about 12 and fantastic, and the scenery is lovely. Didn't get his contact and I am pretty sure they are offline -- offshore actually.
Good idea, but without a fanbase, getting found on the internet really is going to be a "luck of the draw" type of event. From a financial sustainability aspect it'll be worse than busking live.
On the other hand, if you've got a fan base, set up a webcam and announce you'll be playing "live" and interacting via webcam, etc.
It might at least drive some folks to the site where they can donate. I also agree with other posters in that donating online isn't as common as live. It's more a of a hassle to log in, etc., etc. than to grab change in your pocket and throw some change/bills in a case on the street.
I'd like to help do this.
If interested please write to me so we can
discuss a plan of action.
-egg
Cool idea, Derek. We've talked about this for years but as posted earlier, buskers are notoriously disorganized and wary of anything commercialized.
However, if anyone is interested in trying to launch something like this and could write the magic database to set it up (hint, hint, Derek!) I'd be happy to host it or tie it into performers.net... (a.k.a busking.net) We've been the online forum for busking since 1996.
Jim
This is a great one!
Jorge Heilpern's Tangoman project
I found a WordPress theme that is custom-designed for video and have an early version of what this would look like put together here:
http://www.global-buskers.net
At this point, I've simply grabbed a few busker videos to put up as samples, so they may not be long-term.
There is still a lot of coding to do before this is fully realized, but I thought I'd let others see what's possible.
This may have been said, but I'd like to see a company come and create a website, maybe similar to the last comment, "global buskers", where they can make partnerships with some sites, maybe along with the video an ad can be placed.
It pops up, but its different from your regular popup, it goes to creative and fun websites for people who do take the time to look new things, and because it is so unique they let the video play out.
Maybe the brand can sponsor the Global Buskers to carry out their work and the people of the world support the buskers.
The Global Buskers Team, keep in contact with the Buskers and handle the affairs with their money (so that nobody is having to deal with explaining paypal on the street).
This could definitely be carried out in a professional manner, that not only gives advertisers a chance to place their brand in a "pop-up" that is actually entertaining, but also gives the average online surfer the chance to visit new places, see new things and help sponsor the art world.
One thing I can say to this is that don't be afraid to ask for money.
So just have a paypal donation thing on your website as a musician, you perform, so you should expect at least a buskers pay!!
Incredible Idea Derek!
And for the income for the website owner, he can always put some little Google Ads here and there to have a bit of money if the traffic is high enough!
A GREAT idea for sure!!
I've been thinking about this for a while, time to get things rollin'..!!
BJ, a busker in the cold north..
This is kind of like the idea I mentioned when we met at the Taxi meeting 2001 if I remember correctly...except you could do it with all musician-entertainers...and potentially the sky's the limit with the web...GREAT way to build up a fan base if it's done correctly (which I'm sure you'd know how to do at least as good as anyone, if not better...
As far as street musicians and computer access...virtually every public library has computers these days...at least in this country...I'm not sure about foreign countries...
Very Best Regards,
George
I think people should pay to see the videos with sound, exept for a sample.
I did a search for BMI and ASCAP, even SESAC on this page and found one reference to ASCAP. In theory any performance for profit is remunerable. The administration of the theory is problematic. Prior to the excellent logging potential of the internet, and then more currently in the down job market, there was a certain amount of slack or logic in paying chart toppers an extra $50 for performances by the great unknown (after all, they were probably singing one of those songs anyway, no?), but the field is wide open for a new group of 'regulators' or 'Paladins' if you will to go out and collect . . . or bend the practice to the theory. For example, I can remember having a song on a juke box hit compilation CD - in the top ten of the juke CD charts for some five years or more. But despite all my evidence of sales and chart positions, I was still shot down by BMI.
A few years earlier I did get paid by BMI because I had a friend of a friend working there. Such is the human condition.
Paypal has had a 'donate' button for quite some time.
What a great idea! What's also cool about it is how it seems to stimulate other ideas to add to the mix. Thanx, Derek.
Would live streaming alleviate the copywrite issue? Performers could schedule blocks of time. The site would route payments to that performer. Click Here if you want to donate to that person performing from Noon - 1:00 on Tuesday.
Paul Jarvis Writes ... "i saw a busker yesterday singing old harry chapin songs, his voice was sweeter than harry himself - i had to stop and listen a while. great idea to put buskers online!"
This comment makes the very important point as to why this may not work. If you are singing songs you have not written - which is the case with most buskers - the songwriters must be paid. It would be up to the site to come to arrangements with Performing Rights Societies around the world who license and collect on behalf of songwriters and music publishers ...
Interesting statistic ... 70% of the music you hear is NOT written by the people who perform it ...
Only allow comments about any given busker if a donation is made...if they want to say the performance was no good, they must pay their "2cents".
This is a good idea that could lead to some poor street artists hitting the lottery. If they move some billionaire they could get a huge donation.
Hi Derek,
Please, remember that this will change the busker’s image, forever, and many of them will not like that. Let the buskers decide.
To insure web quality of a busker's performance (when nothing else is available) ask one or two colleges/universities to do the project.
In addition, if a video camera is not available, take several pictures of the musician and surrounding area, interview the musician, and send files.
Sincerely,
David A. Boyington
I don't think that it's a good idea, really.
))))
I can believe that people would pay for a disc and even for an mp3 file. Because in this case they paing for something they will OWN.
But pay for just a viewing yet another amateur music video with low quality...
Are YOU ready to pay, Derek?
Does someone who told here "It's a great idea" REALLY ready to pay?
How much?
It would be nice to add geo tagging of the videos so people could browse by location. I think that people would be more willing to donate to buskers that are from their hometown, people they have seen every day as they go to work.
Maybe a part of the site could have a google map which pinpoints where these musicians play. It would be a different way to browse for artists and a fun way to see the different styles of each city.
I do agree that some of the implementation of this idea would be hard. I remember meeting countless street musicians who had never used a computer in their lives, let alone have an address, phone number... I tried on a few occasions to help some get set up email and can tell you that it was many hours wasted... just teaching them what a mouse is was extremely complicated, let alone a browser, and email address, or a paypal account.
Thanks again Derek for spearheading such an interesting conversation, I hope that something comes of it.
I do my busking in Second Life. SL provides quite an interesting platform for musicians to spread their music to a global audience.
>>>I found a WordPress theme that is custom-designed for video and have an early version of what this would look like put together here:
http://www.global-buskers.net>>>
Robert! Went, checked it out, looks neat! Hey, if there were a Paypal link in the description of the "Egg Man of Cape Town" already in place, I'd have tipped him today myself! Roll with the momentum! Go for it! You're on it!
A free version of this already exists - thousands and thousands of Musicians post there music there (buskers, novice, professional, beginners, advanced, outstanding, young, old ...),some recorded by themselves and some recorded on the street by others, friends, complete strangers (some who ask permission, some who don't)...
... it is called YOUTUBE!!
Do you really think people would pay for a much more limited version of more or less the same thing??...
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see this happen and would be more than happy to donate to acts I like but we are too much in the minority for this to work.
I can't figure out how/if there's a way to license the composition copyright for a friend (or a busker) who performs a cover.
I think the challenge (and maybe opportunity) is to find a way to make it easy to legally upload covered songs (the challenge being that I don't think there's any established licensing regime for "streaming" or even "click to listen" covers, is there?) It seems like a lot of folks ignore the composition (C) on Youtube, including the rights owners.
Am I missing something?
I was referring to uploading video/audio performances to the likes of Youtube or other sites. People do it, seems like mass (C) infringement, nobody seems to care, or is it just a matter of time?
Seems like everyone is really concerned about (C) in the recordings, and there's been relatively little interest in figuring out the (C) licensing regime around making covers. Which is a shame since it leaves us in legal limbo-land if we want to share our (or our friends) cover performances.
elaborating on fran snyder's query, putting house concerts and any kind of free public appearance online and asking for tips is a good idea too.
something like cactus joe's couch concert perhaps: http://cjhouseconcert.blogspot.com
joe
buskerbaby.com?
@ Beltana -
Thanks! I'm glad you liked the prototype.
Just a general FYI - the website will be variously on or off-line over the next few days or maybe weeks as I continue working on it.
I'm going to try a WordPress-MU install, as I believe that might be the best way to provide PayPal functionality to each individual Busker. As it is, I can only find PayPal plugins that refer back to the site and not users on an individual basis. I'm hoping this switch will resolve that issue.
--- Robert
what a nice idea!!!
A Lot of talk about the licensing of covers being a deal breaker for this project. I would say if you used youtube to deliver the content it's a non issue.You tube already has in place mechanisms for dealing with copyrighted material. I think the bigger issue would be making sure it is the busker who is getting paid. all that said, it's been a few weeks since Eric posted this idea. 214 comments later .. has anyone built this yet? give us a link to the beta!
The idea has something there, but...what's to stop somebody from shooting a busker, uploading the video and having the donation go directly to them. Bypassing the busker altogether.
In doing my project I hear from buskers all the time about people shooting them while they perform, the shooter leaves, without dropping any $$ and then the busker finds the video on You Tube.
By the way, for you New York buskers out there, I'm always looking for participants for my project. Please contact me directly to discuss. Visit http://www.buskerproject.com
sorry to be negative, but i don't think it will work. haven't you received the spam email about joshua bell (the most highly paid classical violinist) busking on the NY subway as part of a social science experiment? he made a few dollars - why? i think it's because subways are spaces designated for trains and for people hurrying from one place to another. concert halls are the right places for joshua bell (and all other musicians laying all kinds of music). when i perform in a concert hall, people remember it years later - they even tell me what color shirt i was wearing on the night. that's what the world needs ... more concert halls, more performances branded and presented as performances (i know it's not a clever and innovative idea, but it's tried and tested - it works, it doesn't need tweaking, just doing).
... and btw, having someone shoot a performance of yours and put the video on youtube (without giving you any $$) is the best you could ever wish for. it's not like they (or youtube) is making any money from you - they're investing time and resources in promoting you (without charging you for their services)! if it's a bad video, no harm will be done, people just navigate away and forget it. if you're lucky and it's a good video, particularly if you perform your ass off ... you could get really famous (for free) and then get real gigs and charge real money because someone else "made you". so perform your ass off, it's a long shot... probably won't get you famous, but it's more fun than moaning.
A friend just sent me a link to this post and it nearly perfectly describes a project a couple of friends and I have been working on for street musicians in New York.
We've been working the site on and off for a couple months, and there are still a lot of things to be tinkered with and added, but it's getting very close to being in a launchable state:
http://buskernyc.com/
Feel free to drop me a line (ian@buskernyc.com) and let me know what you think!
It's a thought
Aleee
wonderful idea! Complicated to work out maybe, but worth a try...
This is a great idea.. I've been working on this for a while now... should be up and running by January 1st.
There are a few technical issues to work out but so far it is a go.... profiles, choice of editor, uploading etc... most have been solved.
The site will allow you to register, and create webpages in which you can embed your youtube video and a donation button linked to paypal as well as other information that you might put in a webpage...
It will be free at the moment... maybe I'll add a donation button for the site owner... sort of a tithing situation... or the owner will busk too!
The site will be onlinebuskers.com
Forgot to mention in my earlier post that obtaining synchronization licenses are also involved and should be undertaken by the site not the buskers.
Because this site would be an aggregator that could generate substantial advertising revenues, it must not do as Derek did at CDBaby and force the financial obligations off on the artists ... especially buskers.
One thing to remember about aggregators - it's always the aggregator that wins ... rarely the artists.
Hope the site I'm creating will be an exception...and be a winner for the artists. Videos will be hosted by Youtube not on the site. Users will be able to add a link to paypal with a donation button. All proceeds from the donation button will go to the artist. Onlinebuskers.com will not be collecting any commissions from artists, but voluntary donations by the artist i.e. tithing will be available but not required. I'm working on the premise that there will not be a membership fee for artists either.
Early testing has been completed, just working on a suitable template and should be live in a few days! Will keep everyone posted.
Hi Mark,
Waiting to see what you put together.. just developing a site for a friend of mine and wondering how much I can borrow on your programming expertise
-M
Great idea!
Almost ready to go.... just creating help files to show how to add videos and paypal buttons....
Update: will be meeting with a busker to help him set up pages... and I will record this to create training videos... Site will be live in a few days...
The site will allow people to register and create up to 5 webpages, imbed video and a paypal donation button. There will be a searchable directory of artists, a 'most popular' feature, 'recently added' feature, and a file uploading system for users to upload small images for their webpages.
As soon as I have the training videos completed I'll open the site!
BTW its free for artists and fans.
Site is now live! OnlineBuskers.com
Buskers are welcome to set up pages and start busking online!
Watch the video to see how to use it!
Mark
great idea!
Very cool idea... love it!
Wao it is something I have never heard before. It is a great idea to help those buskers who has only the street music source of income. It will help them in maintain their ego and self respecting as they are not begging from others. It will also help them in buying those consumer electronics equipment which they think necessary for street music.
So far, I've been unable to solve the issue of trust concerning the use of PayPal on the website, so until I do, http://www.global-buskers.net/ will just be a site for me to post busker videos I find.
I'm not comfortable with the possibility that someone could misrepresent the buskers in the videos and send any PayPal donations to someone *other* than the buskers in the videos.
When I do find a trustworthy solution to this problem, I'll stop by again and leave a note.
I still think this is a great idea to pursue and one that can be accomplished without a lot of bells and whistles to clutter the experience.
Started this company back in 2002 called Subway Records Inc www.subwayrecords.com - we have had some really good success that includes a online subway (voting) contest we did with Time Out NY, we performed halftime shows at MSG and Lincoln Center and have enough national and international sales to prove to anyone that this business has the potential to be BIG. So I agree with everyone that, in theory, this is a good idea. However, it is as much of a struggle as it has been for subway artists.
There are obstacles, some of which I'm still trying to overcome 8 years later. In addition to cultural bias, the subjective laws governing subway musicians and my good intentions subway artists have heard it all and are weary of everyone. In the begging I was called just another "white guy in a suite". It's gotten easier as years passed and now have some really good friendships stemming from Subway Records. I plan taking this idea and the artists all the way, no matter how long it may take. I too believe strongly in the idea, the music and subway artists.
More than happy and open to your ideas and help to take Subway Records to the next level! Legally, we are all good and have all trademarks etc. We can global and share one "online platform" for all subways GLOBALLY! This will be big!
Cant do it by myself!
Rallo
Thats a great idea. I own the domain name www.willplayforchange.com
Maybe I can do this idea with my site.
Very cool idea. I tried doing this once over ustream tv. I ran a live drumming workshop and had alot of fun doing it!) Nice idea)
What if the busker is homeless?
fresh idea dude
OMG brain meltdown after reading all this...
But I'll tell you something, you can't give it away :(
Anything that helps musicians make some earnings from their music has to be a good thing. Thanks for the idea; will try this out next time I meet a busker.
maybe you could move the buskers to an indoor mini-stage. Say a Starbucks Stage (nudge nudge) and then place a webcam on the stage, and then upload the webcam feeds from across the nation, continent, and the world onto a streaming montage of songs which could be played in-house (or sold to a network -best of the week) when no-one is on stage.
the buskers get cafe "tips" and a cut if the montage best of is sold.
So you could go for a night out to Starbucks and see live music from around the world, or live on stage that means 24hrs a day - cause somewhere it is always night. Live from Khrungthep, Paris, Berlin, LA, London, Montreal, Denver, Little Town USA, End of the line bus depot in the boonies...
Starbucks was started to create a neighborhood gathering space, a Starbucks Stage could extend that mandate, creating a gathering space without boundaries. Clients would be getting access to local musicians, access to international musicians, and the musicians would garner local and potentially international exposure. Live and streamed.
Win win win and enjoy music and cafe ...
I have a site on youtube that features & promotes Buskers"Guitarjed's street music the Buskers channel" check it out, i make a contribution to every Busker i film & ask their permission first.
I've been thinking about this for a while too.. check out my website!
www.busker.yolasite.com/