And if only 1% of those people...
2009-09-27
A friend of mine was asked by a musician to help him do a huge mail-out of CDs.
The musician had pressed up 10,000 copies of his CD in anticipation of 10,000 orders that were sure to come through that week.
He had bought a quarter-page advertisement in the back of a magazine with a circulation of one million people.
He kept saying, “If only one percent of the people reading this magazine buy my CD... that'll be 10,000 copies! And that's only one percent!”
He bought 10,000 padded mailers and mailing labels. He converted his garage into a big mailing center.
He kept saying, “Maybe we can get like 10 percent! That's 100,000! But worst case scenario, if only 1 percent... that's still awesome!”
The magazine issue came out, and... nothing. He bought an issue. There was his ad. But the orders were not coming in! Was something wrong? No. He tested it. Everything was working.
Over the next few weeks he received four orders. Total CDs sold: 4.
My friend telling the story ends it with the best line:
“He forgot there was a number lower than one percent.”
I think of this every time I hear business plans that say, “With over 30 million iPhones sold, our app is sure to...”
And let's not forget that zero is also a number
I guest it depends on the ad itself, but I don't really believe in that kind of promotion. Live shows are always the best !
so what about people who have higher than 1% conversion rates? what are they doing differently?
Sounds suspiciously familiar to my own endeavors. Using experiential data I've concluded there are several numbers lower than 1%.
Sometimes its simple arithmetic that gets us because there is always another 1% of 1% & so on! However if you don't take the risk of something you believe in, you can be risking so much more! As always Derek my best wishes to you in all you do, it is a pleasure to read what you share with us
Bonne soiree my friend
Alex
Maybe he should have mailed out 9,996 for free in hopes that he'd sell some concert tickets or T-Shirts.
There's nothing more valuable than experience.
I love being both mathematician and musician. A little real number analysis shows that there are an infinite number of possibilities in the bounded set between 0 and 0.01.
I often wonder what makes people buy a cd from a new artist on a whim.Music sales are mysterious in many ways for independent artists.All we can do is work hard and maintain positivity every day.Tenacity is also a crucial element in the music biz.The lesson I am taking from today's blog is not to rely on a buisness plan alone... make rain for your buisness in every way possible.
Going ahead of the game... instead of simply being in tune...
Start with 10 CDs and HAVE FUN! Then if you happen to have orders for 100, provide 100 to your happy customers and be grateful! Your gratefulness and joy WILL BE contagious to others and naturally, others will want a part of it... weather it's by coming to your show or buying your music or simply by wanting to become your friend... And then, the need to sell 10000 becomes less important and ironically, that's when the big sale usually happens.
Zero is a number, but a negligible fraction approaching zero is also a number--and they're not the same. That's one reason I have differences with Chris Anderson and some elements of his economic conclusions. It also depends greatly on which end of the telescope you're looking in. (More on these thoughts later, somewhere else, but in the minutes before I read your essay, Derek, I was already thinking about these very things. And lo and behold! Guess what's the very first thing I found in my unread e-mail when I sat down at my desk?)
This just goes to show that there is really no "one method" of advertising. At least he knows that the mag he advertised in will give him a 4 CD sale. Not good! But good to know!!!
Advertising is tough in music...people won't buy music just because they see an ad for it. Usually an average music fan doesn't even start to remember the name of a band until its mentioned three times or more. So the need for release hype with build up, word of mouth and repeat advertising is important...and a boat load of hard work.
Those old direct mail chestnuts keep coming back to bite marketers. Ads have to compelling and have a strong call to action, and even then, the results probably won't be high. Next time, he'll have to go with a circulation of 10 million!
It is HARD to sell CDs, even when the music's great. Audience first, sales 2nd?
That was such a shame for someone with such high hopes and 1% isn't alot to hope for. But the answer must lay in the ad itself. The content of the ad was just not having an emotional connection with the readers.
They always say that when reading something we all think to ourselves, "So What? Who Cares? What's In It For Me?" and I believe it's true. If there's nothing in it for us, and no emotion is stirred within us, then we're really not interested.
Must have been so dissappointing and depressing for your friend. I guess it was a lesson learned.
Good point to keep in mind...top-down analysis tends to be overused by consultants and analysts but rarely ends up coming true. Better to look at the situation from a bottom-up point of view and determine what YOU can realistically accomplish.
Love your music, and others will feel that love, we all need to live, but with a love of music ...and in my case a love of performing, the rest will just happen. forget percentages... unless you want to be an accountant!
Ouch.
I wonder how many products that musician has purchased because he saw them in a magazine ad.
I have did similar things like that. Experience is a tough teacher. But we have to remember the good things we have learned.
Derek, you've done it again!
Been there, done that.
I now forget the percentages, and concentrate on the number of CDs I want to sell. Visualise those numbers; do the promotion, sell them, and look forward to ordering the next batch!
Thanks again for the regular insights.
This story represents the inherent misunderstanding that many entrepreneurs, artists, and musicians fail to realize when it comes to advertising. I too am a producer/musician and it would of been best that this musician spent several months inserting the same ad, instead of just one advertisement. Many of the people that I mentioned above believe that advertising is some kind of instant miracle bringing them instant cash. Hopefully, this musician did not throw in the towel. And that (s)he is still at it.
Just my $0.07*.
*Adjusted for inflation.
First mistake, people don't buy CDs, especially from an artist they've never heard of. He's lucky to have sold 4.
Yes, I know this feeling! I had a booth in Toronto as a music consultant helping others find their way in the music industry from some many different angles.. I had 1000 flyers made for my consulting company and during the music industry conference which lasted 2 days I met a lot of people, handed out my flyer and many said(we all know the story) oh yes I could use your services. I did have a great time meeting people in the business and networking. I thought some business would come out of all of this. Many of my flyers were put into bags that were handed out to the hundreds of people attending the music convention. At the end of the 2 day event, a journalist contacted me and interviewed me and said that the article would be in the upcoming sunday edition. It never did get printed afterall and the 1000 flyers I paid for..well not one phone call came my way. Not that a few years have gone by and I look back at that situation, I'm not that surprised of the lack of response. In simpler terms my friends it's all about playing the game and aiming for the target. Missing ain't so bad.
I agree with one of the previous comments. Make ten sell them first. For me its music first sales second
We played to a full house last night with a totally jazzed audience and no one bought a CD. Downloads are 99% of our sales. They say people are still buying CDs, but I don't know anyone who does. He should have taken that money and used it to tour and buy t-shirts.
Word of mouth dominates -- give some free music out!
totally.
%2 is a number lower than 1%
right?
silly me.
I'm good at maph.
:O
happy Sunday everyone.
MOno
At this point I guess a marketing plan have to be in place and atleast three months of promotion and advertising before project date I guess.need ideas my self I guess know is a good time to say look out for kevwreck records complilation reggae cd title champaine tears coming next year the new dancehall fire...www.kevwreckrecords.com
#4 reply is funny!
Thank you for posting this, Derek. Good story. I have experienced something similar since releasing my debut album, Lone Wolf, in 2006 on CD Baby. Thus, my viewpoint is that our success is intimately tied in to not only the quality of the music communication and technical expertise in the studio, but also to intelligent marketing, promotion and PR of the product that is our music and our "persona mystique" as artists i.e. our face forward on the Internet and in the real world public eye. Surveys to an email blast list of the correct "public" prior to major actions taken can help immensely. My most successful action thus far has been staying present on my most active web presences and networking as much as possible with artists, music business folks and fans alike to get me and my music known; build a peer group and fan base; and sell records. Plus, working with Internet radio DJs and podcast hosts for airplay, interviews and cross promotion. And, I always offer to do show IDs, tags and bumpers for them as well. There is a way for us all with our music; with the right will and business acumen not unlike any other business. Ultimately, when done properly per whatever formula is most workable, we can all crack the glass ceiling into the profitable range all the while doing what we love without compromising our "music" integrity and sharing the music love with the world. Ron
hey Derek
it's never good to assume that something like a traditional ad will work. when we "assume", it will make an ass out of u and me.
People buy from people they know, and like, and trust.
Get to know your listeners. Be someone they'll like. Take the time and effort to build trust.
And *that's* how you convert more than 1%
I appreciate people who take out ads because they help keep publications afloat (you didn't mention if it was a music publication or some other type of publication).
But ads tend not to move CD sales. Reviews in magazines and blogs are better. Word-of-mouth is even better. And selling at shows is even better.
A big point in terms of predicting success might have been what kind of track record the artist already had. How many sales has he had in the past? Where did they come from?
I have never had enough music marketing money to spend on everything, so I have always had to start small and test to see what works. Radio promotion and advertising are expensive marketing tools, so I don't use them.
But sometimes you can't advise artists on what works best. They have to try for themselves.
yes ..love the idea of being live
at all the time as possible for my music...- 1 % of anything is some thing ....in reality experience ,
hard work will win at last
The problem is nobody knew his stupid band so why would they shell out ten bucks to buy something they were unfamiliar with? It's the same thing with MySpace. Everybody told us, oh you have to put your band on Myspace. Well, we have 10,000 "fans" and we brought out a CD last year and exactly none of these "fans" bought one. And they were only five bucks. I thought the same thing, if only 1% buys one. . .but the so-called "fans" on your MySpace page are not really your fans, they are just advertising their own shitty band on your page. So much for social networking!
Use it as a tax write off and hold on to the inventory until initializing plan B,C,D ect. until one pays off!
Your friend missed one important part of selling music. You have to hear the product before you buy it. He should have put his product online. Online sales run a little higher than 1% if the picture is interesting and the music is awesome.
It took me a long time to realize that the first number is "0"and than "1",oh well!
I always enjoyed seeing what the ad writers at the advertising agency that were hired by California state would come up with regarding how to win the lotto with odds against you at 14,000,000 to 1. One in particular, I remember: "You can't win if you don't play!"
Hmmmm.... maybe this is where Derek got the idea that CD Baby should start with a stock of four of an artist's CDs.
(For the record, it's been a while and I still have three of the first four in stock... But I guess even that's better than 0%.)
Every day is a fishing day but not every day is a catching day....patience!
We're fooled to believe that the act of advertising alone has some magical power that creates sales out of thin air. There are so many things that go into creating an *effective* ad, and even then, most marketing experts say that it takes at least 9 times or so of seeing that ad before a prospect will even take notice.
If there were a 'plug and play' proven method for all musicians to sell CDs, the majors wouldn't be having problems competing in the marketplace with phones, apps, and games.
So make the music you love. Find people who love it too (whether that happens overnight or slowly...you'll find them if you want to). Then the sales come. And that's exactly how you want it...so when the next release rolls around, you'll already know who your audience is, instead of having to "spray and pray" with your marketing each time.
have you noticed? ... the densest particles in the pond water always sink to the bottom of the jar!
Ads don't sell music. Music sells music.
I sold a whopping 6 CD's at my regular bar gig last night, which is a good night for me. Why? The band was tight, people were dancing, having a great time....people were in the moment of good music. AND.....I mentioned it more, AND...it was very prominently displayed. Bottom line: it's the live show.
This buying and selling music gets me a little angry,
we should live in a world where no one sells or buys anything, specially art,
Oh yeah! Lets not forget that ole crooked letter in "if", my dad use tell me growing up,that "if" a bull frog had wings, he wouldn't bust his A......against the ground so hard. So,I learned not to use that word in my,"Planning" it just don't work to well.
On my first CD long ago, I decided to go to a record collectors' fair, buy a table, and set up my mini-CD player with headphones and let people listen to my CD and decide whether to buy it. It was a marketing experiment. Could I make a living selling music that way? It was great fun to describe the music, set the CD to play, and hand them the CD player and watch their reactions to my music as they sampled the tracks, set the volume and so on. When your livelihood and artistry are on the line, you really focus on what the customer wants and likes. I learned that if they are liking the music, they will look you in the eye now and then. But if it is not connecting, they will look at the walls in various directions. Well, I sold two or three CD's that day--a lesson learned. Lesson: go where your market is.
derek
yeah. compassion to your friend. these are harder times. we have to cultivate the 1% in the world like a community garden...
for a long time as an artist i worked, trained, and re-educated with the hope i would be discovered.
i finally was. by myself. about a year ago.
now instead of setting up a lemonade stand for an afternoon and hoping walk by traffic will work, i am creating, designing, and testing google wave protocol for promoting my whole community of artists. and me. in that order.
hoping that the market will passively bring our dreams isn't enough anymore...
...and it is going to be the personalization of the internet, not the automation that will be the renaissance we have all been hoping for as artists.
thank you for your continued work!
~stefan
All the more reason to offer them to your audience as you mentioned in your previous post!
He also should have factored in all the other efforts by other advertisers being made on customers to get them to spend their money. His ad was most likely less than 1% of that total effort!
Very sad tale...I wonder where he got his business advice. Advertising doesn't work like that in the best of times, even with essential, gotta-have-it goods & services. As other posters have said, you have to align your music with an audience, or discover who gets off on it...the hard work is finding them, eliciting their interest, and ultimately earning their trust in your artistic vision and the music you make with it. In my experience, the narrower the audience base the better...otherwise you're competing for attention and jingle with Coldplay, Brad Paisley, Pink (fill in genre example here). What an adventure, though!!
I believe it. Best place to sell CD's is at a live performance -- otherwise it's simply another needle in a huge digital haystack. Have heard even some of the big names (like Elton John and the Rolling Stones) are suffering through down CD sales these days. The main reason..? They're getting too old to hit the road and do months of live shows.
This also shows the value of the eco-system. If I see a captivating ad from an unknown artist, the first thing I would do is Google them (and look them up on YouTube as well). If what I find online doesn't match up to my expectations then that's the end of the line.
I get the "if only 1%..." line a lot too. Glad I have something to point people to now.
Agreed... 0 to 1 can not be ignored.
Oh how many times do I recall the Groucho Marx line "I'd never want to be in a club that would have me as a member"?
People, be yourself. If you're good they'll friken come to you. If you're good, You'll have the Wm.Morris agency begging to publicize you. If you're good, all you need to concentrate on is getting better.
Ace
Everybody thinks they're own shit is good. Even if only for the moment or two they temporarily break out of their depressed mood.
I suppose we could go old school and say "the proof is in the pudding" and be right ...
Look, Ryan's right ... give it away for free ...
Let it build organically. Assume critical mass. Share only the best. Offer, don't push.
Eventually you learn to do it for the right reasons. And appreciate all that means.
It also depends on, I hate to say, the music. You can't sell a jobby no matter how much you advertise it
Why is it that musicians think that just because their music is important to them, that it should be important to anyone else? One percent? One percent of what? This guy let his ego and self importance make the assumption that 1% of a given group would give a crap about him.
ATTENTION ALL MUSICIANS: MUSIC IS NOT A PARITY PRODUCT!!! NO ONE NEEDS YOUR MUSIC TO LIVE!!!! Just cuz you NEED to make it, doesn't mean that anyone NEEDS to hear it. He made the assumption that 1% of the 1 million readership would see the ad and go "Awesome! Where's my checkbook?" That's an ego driven decision.
The biggest pain in the ass with being a musician is dealing with musicians. The average musician has a lack humility (and sometimes honor) and has an ego that is generally driven by insecurity. The greatest musicians I have played with and been around are generally decent, humble people who are dedicated to their craft, love to make musical art, and work their ass of so that they can continue to do so.
I can't tell you how many times I have heard "Stick with me buddy, I'll make you rich." or "My stuff is gonna blow up." Yucccchhh...Blechhh...*barf*....
Hmmmm...
Maybe a less discouraging approach would be to think about the 1% of people who HAVE HEARD your music and LOVE IT will buy it?
Cheers!
For most of us, money in the music industry is like a giant pickle jar being slowly filled with mostly pennies, plus some nickels, dimes, and a few quarters.
Just because it's mostly pennies isn't a good reason to throw away the pickle jar.
"Negligible" numbers have important roles to play in economics. Understanding their roles? Well... that's even more important!
Love this! New artists often tell me about how they're going to press 1000 cds and make $10,000 in the first three months. They also often tell me they'll NEVER give any out for free either. I usually just smile and tell them they should be prepared to give out 60%(or more) of the product as promo. They usually snort at me, make a face and/or a grunting sound and say something very snide like, "well, maybe *you* have to do that". I continue to smile. :D I have two releases, and I had to re-issue my first one when I pressed my second. I'm perfectly content in the knowledge that a cd is, for the most part, just an audio business card.
I have to agree that while words are ok, music will sell music. I have to wonder, if he'd taken the money he dropped on a 1/4 page ad in a major magazine, and spent it on either a publicity company, or just put the effort into meeting a local DJ and getting played on air, how many more discs he would've sold.
Music should never be a numbers game, but sales always are. Measure twice, spend once.
Sorry, I should have been more specific: The Chris Anderson of WIRED magazine. Apologies to the Chris Anderson who posted above for the unintended confusion. (Now off to confuse many named John Smith...)
It's about the product. Has the friend created something that people want instead of everything else? In a recession where someone might have to choose one album among tens or hundreds, is his album the one they would choose? Would HE choose his album above what else is available? It's about the product. If it's good enough, people will download it, share it, then buy it... but they're not buying until they hear it and, if they have to buy it to hear it.... well, zero sales.
Damn! hahaha! It is hard to argue with a confident man. It takes time and resiliance to build a "demand".
@Kim Jarrett: Yes, and that 60% IMHO can be just the amount to radio stations, music critics, and other people within the industry...not even considering any just plain fans in that mix!
If people don't want something, there's no price low enough, no ad campaign big enough or smart enough to make them buy it. Conversely, if the product is really good, only a small amount of promo is needed then word of mouth will do the rest.
There's a cautionary tale. If you don't know whether the world loves you, don't go and buy it the most expensive dinner and diamond ring you can afford.
I have one question, which was not addressed in your scenario. What was the quality of the music? It is still all about the song. What your friend should have done is put a link in his ad to a landing page where people could sample the music before they purchased a CD. If the music is good, people will purchase it. They will not buy a pig in a poke.
More importantly, there is a major paradigm shift in the music industry where people are just not purchasing CDs. Your friend should have sold his music as an MP3 directly from the landing page. The name of the game is instant gratification. If they like the music, the will purchase it.
Market musically
Life is the symphony
You are the conductor:-{)
,,
_^_
/\
Hmm and I always thought the magic # was 1% also...Learn something new everyday.
IF. That amazing word, IF. For a word with only two letters IF is a very powerful little trouble maker.
As my father used to say "If my Aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle.
...having my business foundation built in the retail industry...I am acutely/painfully aware of the highs and lows of advertising return on investment.
Test marketing is a good way to get an idea of how any product is going to sell...a full page of advertising in a regional newspaper is also not very expensive. Be sure you are doing this test, however, in a market that is diverse. Because the cost of advertising in small regions is relatively small...you should test market in several regions.
THEN....once you have tested the waters...go for it BIG time....or... not...lol.
Okay, this is what I've found about my music selling digitally. The one song that I have a video for is the song that sells the most.
This is not a video that I created. My uncle, who is a videographer and does weddings liked my song and asked if he could use it for one of his wedding video demos. This is free advertisement for me. I can only imagine that people are downloading and using the song for their wedding day.
Makes emotional connection, check.
Reaches people I otherwise wouldn't, check. Is an advertisement of my music, check. Best of all it's helping my Uncle sell his services too!
I hope you find this helpful. If you'd like to see the video go to
http://www.vimeo.com/4549739
or
http://vids.eu.org/view-id-4549739.html
I don't worry about sales. I just
record my songs I like best and if
people like it they buy... If they
don't like it they don't buy. I have 39 albums on C D Baby and I sell some of everything I've recorded. It's good I don't have to make a living selling music.
but then I'm not an artist. If I sang one of my songs for you .Well. for sure You wouldn't buy it.. I always get professional people for my recordings. I have a wide variety of music and lots of
people like my material.
I'm just happy to post my music on C D Baby and have a chance to sell my music
all over the world.
Yah,
I got rich off this music shit too!
~ Just like fishing . . .
They say 99% of the fish,
are in 1% of the lake . . .
~ But what percentage of the time do they actually bite?
L A M M Y aka Mr. True
How funny. Because WE'VE ALL thought that!
Thanks for pointing it out, Derek! Again, proving you are one of the smartest people I know.
He should have read 1,000 True Fans http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/03/1000_true_fans.php first
Last year we sent out over 7000 personal emails to potential clubs & festivals in Europe to prospect the possibility to perform.
Imagine how long that took! Research, writing, etc. We got 3 (three) responses. That's even better odds than your CD guy! Wooot!!
Logic is not always the answer. Now and then it's good to have luck riding on your shoulder.
one is the loneliest number that you'll ever know....
People aren't stupid and they don't need CD's to live like they need food, shelter and clothing. Most people have been had a few times as well. The old trick by the Music Stars was to seed CD's with one hit song and the rest junk. Another trick is to play some great tunes in person and claim those are on the CD. So most people have been burned and it's not easy to sell CD's unless they can be played to verify what's on them. So to think you can advertise unheard songs on unknown CD's is asking a bit much. While I'm sitting there playing, people who want my music will ask if they can hear me play specific songs on the CD or listen to the CD on a head set. And, of course I'm set up to do that. Now if your music is for Teeny Boppers and kids it's easier to sell to them,
but they can't easily send money.
Great reading Derek.
I can remember when I launched my First CD "California Blue" in 98 and thought of ways to promote it. I placed a few news paper adds and printed up a few posters and flyers and it produced approx 20 sales.
About that same time our yearly beach carnival was about a week away so I booked a site,set up my gazebo complete with CD player for backing tracks and played Sax & Clarinet live to songs off the CD and..Wowee, I sold $1200.00 worth in the 4 hours that I was at the carnival.
I returned and did the same the following year and this time I had a lady friend do the selling while I kept playing...only sold $800.00 worth so I figured you need to stop and talk to the folk who buy your music...Playing live pay's of though.
Cheers, Bill
We live and learn and maybe you should do something different if all you want is the money.
Like most people, you don't want much you just want more!
Get a job as an accountant.
I'm just pleased to write and record songs about things I feel strongly about such as politics, people and comedy. We all need to laugh if only at ourselves.
Good Luck and Keep smiling!
Dennis Derby
Try a thousand things,if one works...one works! Success comes to those who are too busy to look for it!
I've read some wonderful words of wisdom replies about this !% sales approach and I can't add anything more helpful. But I would like to share a musicians' joke.
I've got a million seller!
I've got a million in the cellar!
Too much investment, that's all. Easier to get more CDs pressed if they're selling than to have to deal with boxes of CDs that aren't selling.
I enjoyed reading all the comments.
Mine is:
I know jy product is good because it has lasted for decades. My joy is that CDbaby puts it out and now i am about to put out my 18th Cd.
good product first, and then know that you are giving your music, and the take is that I hope that it recoups the cost and so far so good.I think I am saying that one gives as an artist and the taking is that people receive the gift and respod in buying and then getting in touch with the artist....that is my great joy.
thank you for all that you do for all of us. Hugs, and just keep the good words coming.
Betty
I am lucky enough to work with teenage (kids) in a job I do on the side away from singing and songwriting, and one thing they love to talk about is music- I am always asking them how they hear new music, how they buy it, if they but it, and why they like what they are listening to. Also, think of why you buy or don't buy music. I have found most in the younger generations feel entitled to music, and the concept of buying is just not there- and who wants to buy when you can have it for free? It's a mindset I'm sure is going to be around for a while.
Sounds like a very familiar story for many of us here. I used to shoot for 1% of 1% but that number may be even too high to reach. So now I just let the numbers worry about themselves and remember that I make music for myself first and if anybody else likes it,....then great!
Solitoode
Sandy's comment reflects my experience. While talent, hard work, perseverence, and preparation are essential, I often think that the single most underrated factor in making a career in music is a combination of a willingness to take risks coupled with a goodly dose of luck.
Back story: I began playing classical guitar, and later lute, the year I turned 28 (1980). No chance of getting good enough to establish a career, however modest, right?
Not necessarily. After being almost exclusively self-taught on the lute for two years, I played for Toyohiko Satoh, who was teaching at the Royal Conservatory in The Hague, Netherlands, but touring the US, and holding a master class in Duluth, MN. He thought I had potential; I wanted to risk it, even though I was nearing 32 years of age when I was able to get my finances in order to move to Holland.
In 1988, a graduated with a soloist's diploma from that same Royal Conservatory. I then went back to the US to add a graduate music degree to my credentials, eventually obtaining a Ph.D from Duke University.
So that's the preparation and perseverence part, but when am I going to tell you about the luck?
a) Summer of 1990: I had kept up my lute playing while in grad school--harder than it sounds!--and figured it was time to self-finance a CD recording on baroque lute. The recording went well, but I had no money to press CDs. I sent out the casette tape copies, but heard nothing from any labels. (More on this later)
b) Fall of 1990: My Dutch wife and I were visiting her parents in Holland during a break, and her father organized a small house concert for me--literally one other couple. Just so happens that the visiting man (Jan) was a teacher the Royal Flemish Conservatory in Antwerp, Belgium--where his brother was head of plucked strings!
Punchline? I played well, Jan told his brother about me, the brother called me and invited me to Antwerp for an interview. I was hired, and started teaching there as soon as we moved back that December. I held that job until I moved back to the States six years later.
No house concert, no job. Or same house concert, different attendees, no job. Luck--with the rails greased by my years of preparation.
c) Once in Europe (winter of '90-91), I sent out more casette copies of that recording, and the owner of a relatively new label (Erasmus) based in Rotterdam liked what he heard. We struck a deal. I retained the copyright, he gave me a decent sum of money, paid ALL mastering and processing costs for the right to print and issue the CD in the Benelux (I retained sole distribution rights in the rest of the world).
Punchline? Had I not risked making the recording, no CD--I'd have had nothing with which to market myself.
d) When I returned to the US in early '97, I began looking for distribution of my solo CD (during my years in Holland, I'd since been asked to make two others with groups).
As it happens, I'd divorced and remarried in the mean time, and my new American wife had a friend whose father was then a major player in the radio market--as in a partner in Infinity Broadcasting. My wife's friend liked the CD, and played it for her father, who was about to strike a distribution deal with Sony. He took the CD to Sony and... no, I'm not THAT lucky! They already had a lutenist, so nothing happened on that front. BUT, this guy's partner's son (Gabe Wiener) was starting up a new classical label, so the CD was passed on to him.
Punchline? He loved my playing, and I went on to make three more CDs for his young label (PGM, for Pro Gloria Musicae).
What about bad luck!
Oh, yeah, there's been plenty of that.
Gabe Wiener, who had several other recordings in the can awaiting mastering and processing, died suddenly at age 26. The worst sufferers by far were Gabe and his family, of course. But it was a sad twist of fate for the several artists he had been kind enough to take onto his label, and who'd had every reason to believe they'd gotten their big break.
And, a couple of years before that, I was approached by the then head of recording for the Dutch Channel Classics label, who was about to go out on his own. A real fan of lute music, Ted had heard that solo CD of mine at Toyohiko's house, and called me--called ME!--to propose an entire series of lute recordings with yours truly.
We set a date for the first recording, and I flew to Holland. We were to start in three days. But my lute, though transported in the cabin of the plane, had developed a buzz--a loose bar. Unlike a classical guitar, a lute's soundhole is 'filled in' with intricate carving. No gluing of bars can occur without taking off the top. Our recording schedule was tight, and, long story short, the producer ate the cost of renting the venue, I ate my travel costs, and we scheduled another date.
But that new date was cancelled, and the series never got off the ground. His new label got busy with money-making projects, leaving no time for labors of love (hey, lute recordings don't sell by the millions!).
Moral? I bought another identical lute to the one that developed the buzz. Same size, configuration, same everything, so that if I ever had to travel that far again, I'd have a backup. Ironically, though I've done other recordings since, I've never needed that backup, though I use it for some projects, just to keep it 'singing'.
Boy, this turned out longer than I intended! Let me just conclude by saying that thinking of CDs or other promotional efforts strictly in terms of my odds of success never made sense to me. I've always felt, to bastardize the phrase from the movie: "If you DON'T build it, they CAN'T come." Or "If you don't record it (in some form that you can distribute), they can't hear it."
Love for the thing itself inspires hard work, preparation, perseverence. And it means that, if the right person is at YOUR house concert, you'll be ready. Or, as the great golfer Gary Player put it, "the more I practice, the luckier I get".
Cheers.
T
Its 1/10 of 1 %
in general business estimates.
if its direct mail to a target
audiance
Amazing how basic marketing skills still comes into play, huh? So many factors that came into play that our hapless musician didn't seem to account for.
Who is his target market? Do those same people read that magazine? Do those people buy music from magazine ads? Those answers could have saved our "hero" from certain doom.
Further questions, what other press coverage and other PR has the musician gone for? What is his history of selling CDs? (If he's a regularly 1 Millon seller, then this might actually have worked, or not.)
But, at least now he has the discs to give "give away" at every show (as per post http://sivers.org/livecd) and have a shot at making back that money he didn't make with the ad.
Music is a loss leader industry in many ways. How do you make a million bucks playing music? Start with five million!
How many of those who read this article have ever purchased a CD that you've never heard, from an artist you've never heard of?
How many of you read every ad in every magazine that you pick up?
How many of you even BUY magazines?
How many of you even buy CDs from artists that you HAVE heard and DO like?
You would probably sell more CDs through asking a friend to recommend your CD to 10 of his friends than you would if you did what the guy in this article did.
We play a lot of bars and, of course, plug the CD during the set: "This ones on our latest CD...". I find the best way to sell is to table hop during the break and turn on the old charm. (Having an English accent helps - especially with the ladies! ! !) I visit tables and ask: "Having a good time? Jolly good. We have more music to come. You from around here?" All the usual friendly stuff. Then I say, "Hey, here's our latest - look" and give hand a copy to the lady. If she smiles I tell the guy "She likes it. You wanna buy a copy?" I try not to make it sound as obnoxious as these words on paper (screen?) appear, more like a bit of fun. I might sell four or five this way, especially if the boys are nearby to sign it. Something about having the band sign it for them. Usually we all end up laughing and having a Good Time.
It is the personal touch, I think, that works, even though the numbers are small.
I know someone sitting on 50,000 CD's because of hyped speculation.A couple thousand sold through a retail chain but since terra radio wouldn't play the album it was up to satellite radio, which worked for a while but then died out because the artist wasn't appearing " live " in any of the cities across the US.You have to tour and promote, sell from the bandstand.
it's hard to predict the unpredictable.
No-one really knows how well something will go until it's out there.
Do not put the cart before the horse.
And if you do, make it virtual. Preferably with links to some sound samples. 8^)
I wonder what the ad actually looked like. Others have already posted it usually takes many exposures for a print ad to sink in to potential customers to get a response. I heard before it takes hearing something 11 times for the average person to remember a new word. I wonder how that translates to print ads.
Google China has done a mass print ad campaign. On one subway car in Shanghai you can see the same ad 24 times. Multiply this by all the cars on a train, by the number of trains running the ad, then you get a LOT of exposure in a relatively short time period.
But a 1/4 page magazine ad run once in a readership of a million? Very bad odds of selling.
I decided to save $10,000 once just to do it, thinking wow it IS 1% of a million. It took me six years, working as a teacher and working my butt off. Then I thought so what, I would rather see it do something productive in the way of bringing music to more people, thus my group’s CD was born. That 10 grand may not be in my bank account anymore but it is out there somewhere, having touched thousands of lives by the ripple effect of all the people working on it, plus inspiring the group to play more and be more alive musically, not to mention sales at home and in foreign countries. It is not logical. I did not start the project to make a buck. I do hope it will pay itself back over time though. And it’s been a great sound-business card! Thank you Derek for bringing CDbaby to life.
Sometimes I think ideas are like babies. Some are born, some just incubate, some never come out. Of the ones that come out sometimes they do more or less good than I ever imagined. You just cannot plan for all the ripple effects that your work can create. Or maybe you can. Maybe we all need to spend 97% of the time on the perspiration, 2% of the time on inspiration and 1% of the time on the execution.
That is the problem with swag (stupid wild ass guess) numbers. Kind of like the Obama health care numbers. Who knows how much it will really cost? I'll be willing to bet it will be more that is anticipated. Hopeful...yet naive.
i'm actually most surprised by the amount of comments here. derek you have quite a loyal following! it's often hard to comment on this blog cause i come from the underground dance music world where things are quite different, but i must say when it comes to normal funk/jazz bands that i listen to, the ONLY chance i will buy the cd is at the show these days. i am happy to pay for the download direct from the artist though if the music is really really good.
my feelings are this is the age when a musician needs a really good career outside of thinking they can live off of CDs and touring. think about how much it costs to raise a family, buy a house and more. in this music economy? no way!
A more focused, targeted effort might be better - but still no guarantee! I did a mailing once that generated about 2% confirmed gigs from new venues outside our home area. (7 gigs out of 400 flyers mailed) When I tell this to people on the street - those with no marketing experience they say "That's terrible!" When I tell it to those who have been in the game for awhile they say "That's GREAT!"
I have also done targeted advertising in magazines from time to time. The only calls it has ever generated was from other people considering buying an ad to ask how it was working for me. So I have become a real skeptic about advertising, print or web.
Marketing and publicizing are different animals...
I never bought a CD because of an ad in a magazine.
But I did buy Cds because I heard parts of it and I wanted to hear the rest.
Audio, non video musicam.
Right On! A common flaw a majority of novice business plans make is to use the 1% model, when in reality the total population (or in this case subscription base) is never your target market. In all actuality only a small percentage of the population would be interested in your product, and of that smaller group 1% may be attainable.
I'm slow in response 'cos I don't live on fb
My "normal" business is forever getting
"Pay us $$$ to have your business listed in our internet directory! Umpteen gazillion people are linked to the internet! Think how your sales/services will improve with this wonderful exposure!"
This has been going on since, oh , 1995... I am a grain of sand on the seashore. Doesn't mean I can't get myself noticed, but it won't happen by placing myself in a sand quarry for extra exposure!
Years ago I read an article in New York Times magazine about a singer. She sounded FAB! It was at least three pages of article. I thought, YEAH I will buy this girl's CD next time I am out. When I was out, I didn't see the CD ever. There was no bank of CDs in Tower (it still existed). No poster campaign. Nothing. But I kept the magazine. I would look it up and make a note and go shopping. Of course I forgot. Next thing I know, the mag has gone out in the recycling, along with that girl's name. Never heard of her since. Remember Norah Jones? A million dollars spent on promoting her debut CD. Couldn't turn on radio without hearing it. Posters everywhere. 14-track CD was selling for 7.99! It takes effort to create "viral" success, I suspect. Though, having said that, my brother has had 150,000 hits on Youtube for a video he made with his wife miming to the song "Goodness Gracious Me" (see for yourselves!) And I do know that they did no promotion for that at all. On the other hand, it's free. Still... it's pretty amazing. But as someone else said here, ONE advert is not going to sell one per cent of a million cds. It's going to go in to the reclycling! Sigh!
That story actually makes me feel a whole lot better. Thanks for sharing.
IMHO the only use for a print ad is to advert a live show, or string of shows. Sitting on your butt like a spider in a web will just NOT move a product as dynamic, and as ephemeral, as music.
This is why direct mail and advertising guys always test small first. ;)
There is a famous saying in advertising which says, "I know only 50% of my ads are working, I just don't know which half."
Which is why you track everything, too.
"If we had some eggs, we'd have some ham and eggs, if we had some ham" - my grandmother
Wow, make all those Cd's?? A bit grandiose I think. All you math whizzes out there would surely hesitate to risk those kind of odds... Why not just put the music out there and see how people respond? You continue to choose your musical palette, you listen and observe how people react to your music, you make new choices regarding what you record, you try to communicate with people and have a conversation with your audience.... The best thing about CD Baby is that we all get to live out our dreams of being recording artists, hopefully without the horror stories of past generation rip offs and mishaps...
Thanks Derek for starting and keeping the conversation going! also it's great to hear all the comments and ideas being shared.... Thanks To All!
Again...after umpteen years in the music biz as a sideman and bandleader, if there's one thing that I have learned it's that there is no logic whatsoever to this business!
What I'm saying is that it doesn't necessarily follow that the most studious or brilliant or innovative or honest or hard-working artists eventually get noticed by many and become successful through their sincere efforts.
And, isn't there some truth to benefiting from the luck of being in the right place at the right time, among the right people and just when you are at the apex of your abilities?
I HOST A CABLE SHOW NAME ( THE PHAT SHOW ) THREW CAMCAST CABLE NETWORK AT P.C.M. IN PORTLAND ORE, BET CAN'T COME CLOSE TO MY SHOW OF MUSIC & COMEDY TALENT. I WOULD LIKE TO SALE MY 60 MINUTE SHOW ON C.DBABY OR SNOW CAPE. HELP ME OUT.?
Hi Derek
Check out my new website on music therapy.
Don
Advertising, I my experience, tends to work better for someone (or some company) who is already a known entity. If no one knew who you were to begin with, then ANY percentage is good. Although it's a drag selling 4 recordings when you had expected much better, at least you sold 4 of them.
I've had the same experience.....more than once! Just hang in, learn from it & keep going.
Many times an independent artist will fall prey to a sales pitch from someone wanting their advertisement dollars. Their main pitch is their circulation number, i.e.; "One million readers, or One million listeners...just think how many sales you would have if only 1% bought your product?" This pitch takes your mind off of the fact that you are an unknown artist and places it in the desire for profit (dreamland); overlooking the priorities that are REQUIRED to make the profit. MARKETING - The first priority is to be heard ...create a buzz ,via (promotions,CD Baby, PR, etc.), next priority is to be seen (performances,YouTube,DVD's,etc.), then let the demand for your product dictate the number to produce (have order forms just in case you run out). I always keep CD's & DVD's in my car trunk...if not to sell...atleast to give away to create a buzz. This is how some of your major artists got their start - especially the rappers. In other words, "You've got to CRAWL before you walk."
TheoPatra
Very amusing! Made me chuckle after a day of trying to explain the concept of sales to a newbie. Derek, you've NAILED this one!
So much can depend on your genre, mine being early music (1600-1750).
But whatever the genre, a multi-faceted approach seems to produce the best results. The comments regarding the 1/4 ad caught my eye, since I've been running a 1/4 page color ad for three years in the early music magazine with the widest distribution in the US (Early Music America), and it's served me well in terms of results. This past March, e.g., the attention it netted me included a Bach festival in Florida for which my honorarium paid for the ad for an entire year.
A good friend of mine is the events coordinator for Bate College in Maine, and he always stresses using a combination of avenues to get your name out there.
No idea of this has any relevance in the pop music world--I can tell you that open mike opportunities for my 'period' of music are not anywhere near what they are for more popular styles.
Cheers.
T
1 ad or 1 billboard isn't effective, repetition is the key- 97% of people that see a billboard dont remember what it said 24 hours later, so the key is repetition- the more peope see something, the more likely they will remember it.
all he did was "reminder" marketing, which you only do if you have an existing fan base in place,...he should of invested that money in ways that would have gotten people familiar with the product first(promotional cd's, t-shirts, flyers, posters, road trip money to promote in other areas, etc.). you have to crawl before you walk, and there is no such thing as a short cut.
This guy tried and nothing beats a try. But if you are going to try always shoot for the moon. If you miss you will be amongst the stars.
Go for something outrageuos like 100%. If you miss, maybe you will atleast get that 1% or even better.
Why set your sites on something so close to 0%. Have you ever taken a test in school and hoped to get 1% of the answers right? You will atleast hope for a 70% or better!
Derek; you know it goes back to the biggest word in the dictionary
(IF)
I wonder how many more he'd have sold if he included the line: "I'm so sure you'll love my music that I am offering you a 100% money back guarantee--if you don't like it, return it within 10 days, no questions asked, and I'll refund your purchase price." ?? OR better yet, to include something about how he wants to share his music with people, and if they're not moved by it, to return, etc. ?? Puts the "people" back into the equation a bit...
Derek hello!
less than one is a figure to consider, even as said above, zero is a number too.
However, if he loves what he does the number shouldn't be the drive, and if that isn't, then he better makes the plan, considering other options, doing what he loves doing. What an experience!!!!
Charles
"Experience is a pricey school, but fools learn at no other"
-Me Da'
#1 RULE IN BUSINESS...................Keep your overheads down
Cheers
Arnie
...from door-to-door sales, to musical instruments and appliances and services - 1% of 1% is the aim...
1000 flyers = 10 interested = 1 actually buys. Moral = make more flyers than just 1000...
Test it and get back to me
Lots of good thoughts.
I buy unknown (to me) artist's cds sometimes. But I get the most return on investment by giving away cds like business cards. The majority turn into fans and buying customers and friends. Here in hurricane land, I only keep less than 1k of each of my CD titles on hand to mail out. That way if the storm hits, I'm not wiped out.
Live shows are the best though.
And to me, CDs are swag, keepsakes..They are not real music, any more than a photograph of mom is mom. They are just a rough representation of something our fans accept as music while we are not performing in their presence. And although people may enjoy listening to them, hopefully that representation will create an urge in folks to see my live show sometime. Not the other way around.
In other words, I don't do live shows to sell CDs, I distribute Cds to bring people to my shows, where actual music is experienced.
It's late ...I could be blathering..
Downloading downloading downloading that is where it's at. Also good management!!!! Hello!
As great as it is to have high hopes/goals...this reminds me of another type person. The person who is thinking about taking guitar lessons...so they go out and buy a $3,500 guitar and a $4,000 boutique amp...thinking that they will be able to somehow start anywhere than at the beginning. About this sort of person...I usually conclude that they have considerably more money than they do good sense.
Okey Derek so, whats the best strategy to use? I am using a lot of Newspaper, Radio, Television and I've recently started performing more. Things seem to be getting better and better. I am actually excited.
I agree that people don't buy music if they haven't heard it. I can talk about my CD all day long to somebody, but most of the time they won't buy it unless I play them a track. What a bummer for this guy to learn that hard lesson.
It's better to find a way to get at least some feedback on whether anyone would even like your music, before taking such a big financial risk.
...another reason to DIY. Less overhead = less attachment to the product(music) = less "neediness"/desperation to recoop overhead expenses = better connection with my audience = increased demand = good problem to have...Ironic, isn't it??
Less than one percent... Wonder how he got that 1% to arrive at 10,000 in the first place.
Selling Cds is not a "Numbers Game!" I think it is a "What's In It For The Buyers Game!"
Give the customers what they want and the cash should follow.
Thanks, Derek.
Robert Van Horne
Wow.. is all I have to say. I hope the guy keeps up a good spirit and brainstorms.. if he has a band and finds a way to play out and sell, this could be helpful..
I feel really blessed at this moment for the record deal of Japan and the numbers I have sold off of the website-
Again, I hope the guy is ok.. by the way what is or was his name or was this made up? (:
thanks, derek, , i'm sure your friend was convinced that what he was going to do would work. we ALL think the stuff that we're doing is going to work..that's why every musician can shake their heads at that..sorry that it didn't work out for him or her..
Don't test the depth of a STREAM with both feet.
For what it's worth, Wayne Gretzky use to say 100% of the shots I don't shoot don't go in.
It's good to fall on your ass the first time. But at least he took the shot. All he needs to do now is see the net and keep shooting. Victory comes to those who want it the most and want it the longest.
Haha. That's why I don't do CDs anymore. Maybe that's why you don't do CDs anymore, too. Jaja.
So Derek is this your idea of a pep talk?
Somehow I'm just not feeling the Pep Yet.
it's gumble. positive thinking should include devesify options.
i recently had a good tour. when i made decision, i only considered how i can afford it. i calcuted the worst result that i can accept the debts is a ...then i started to tried the different options, aiming to make balance to zero. when i back from trip, i didn't debts, i made little money, more than zero - that out of my expectation. while along the way, all my heart is on the music itself, and i driving alone in the nature, surrounded by my music world. and the audiences felt the same way...
if you really love music, you will get support . God know what you need. how stupid ideas on 1% and 10%. your thinking was money...from now on, that kind of lucky may be not happened too often in music industry..
Did that magazine really cater to his audience? It sounds like he was just gambling. Hoping 1% would buy... "Hope" is not a strategy.
Oh yes, so much music out there, so little time. I'm sure you've heard this one: - I've just released my new CD! -Oh yeah? Sold anything? -Sure: my drum kit, the boat, my house...
Pun aside, I agree that you need to risk putting your music out there. My first CD, long time coming, has generated live shows, which have generated sales. Getting people to buy your music unheard based on an ad is almost impossible, however. Even radio airplay is absolutely no guarantee for sales. But as the Swedish saying goes: many small creeks make a river. Be persistent and focus on what you like and love about your music. Be sure that there is an audience out there for it and that they will eventually find you.
How many of us unsigned musicians have placed ads in magazines only to not sell even one CD? Live shows do far more then ads. Repeated live shows while having a crew member roaming around the audience handing out FREE CD's, Cassettes help even more. Radio ads help somewhat but only if you can get the station or DJ to spin a song of yours several times a days and talk you up.
Myspace helps a little, but not much, I toured with several of my bands in the 1980s and 1990s as an opening act for major bands and had crew members handing out free Cassettes and VHS music videos to the concert goes while we "The Band " were on stages performing.
Eventually, cassette sales begin to happen "slowly." Once I went solo and sold my cassettes through TOWER RECORDS on consignment and had them show my music videos on the many hanging telepromters within their stores, music vidoes and cassettes began selling much faster.
I continued performing live whereever I could get a spot to gig at, I'd sell cassette tapes of my solo songs at the gigs, I worked hard for many years selling only under 100,000 thousand cassettes and VHS music videos combined.
I was signed with TRAC Records in Central california "owned by Stan Anderson" and sold another 9,000 CD's and was promoted by Andy Factor of Virgin Records, then life got in the way of my music career and I had to put most of my solo shows on hold, but I continued performing with musicians such as Bob Seger, Jackson Browne, Robert Lamm "from Chicago" Lonnie Johnson, Walter Williams, Ethan Fox and on and on. Cassette sales jumped a whole 2%, but everywhere I wanted to gig at after gigging with those well known artists was always grabted and I got paid good.
I got out of making muisc in 2006 and began managing a female singer-songwriter.
Magazine ads without live shows don't do much, so don't waste your time and money on that part of promotions.
Performing the College circut helps out some, but don't count on being remembered unless you tour with well known artists at colleges.
Good luck with however you promote yourself. Be perpared to be disappointed, but keep your thinking caps on and don't give up.
As always, thanks for your posts Derek.
~Mark Johnson~
It reminds of how THE LORD confounds the wise and sets the poor on high.
if you do music for the money, you'd be better looking elsewhere.
as for this fella getting 10k cd's, he's be better using them as business cards and giving some of them away
Somebody can start with few CDs. It depends on how many orders he has to cut more...
It's a very good point to raise.
Has he sold all the CD's yet?
Print On-Demand CD's could be one solution. www.audiolife.com
I've placed adds many times and have gotten minimal response, but the last major add I did place ended up being the very same size as Michael Franti & Spear Heads, they were placed back to back the only two alike in the whole magazine. It did make me look good, since I'm not on my world tour yet and I need a tour bus with a driver and crew. All you can do is try, just don't have expectations (that are unrealistic) hope for some cool magical thing, that one person out of a million that bought your CD or books your band could be the diamond in the ruff you've been dreaming about and need.
Bike Power for your Eco Sound System.
Thanks
My mom once overheard someone say on a bus, "Experience costs money." So true! On a personal note, I myself am thinking of making a special sample CD of all the songs on my CD but as one, fluid excerpt or rather, medley, not full songs, to give away for FREE. What do people think of this? Also, I just put a video up of a RAW performance on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjFLdLu2cE8 Would yall be so kind as to send some advise for improvement my way? Marketing or creative. (Applies to all reading!) Thanks!
Bummer for that guy.... :(
A couple of tracks from an old CD of mine received a bit of airplay on a Russian radio station over the weekend.
The only messages landing in my In-Box this morning are from a legion of Russian hackers trying to break my contact form and smash my server.
Yes, in Tokyo I can expect about 1% of the people on my mailing lists to come out and hear the music LIVE.
Think of it as "Cost of aquisition"
If he believes in the product, he now has 4 fans, who are gonna buy his next CD.
People who like to slag off the music industry don't realise how hard it is to sell CDs. I think they do a great job ...
its a start
Hi Derek,
4,sales.Okay,everybody knows at least 10 people and so on.If his record is outstanding he'll will eventually sell more because,of word of mouth.Perhaps,if he had said eg.every cd bought would generate 50% to your favourite charity then people would have felt some sort of achievement was in place.It could have made a difference.I would suggest he try againand put a little more thought into his Advert.
Pete
yeah have had same experience, have pondered doing large pressing's of my albums, but never did due to worrying about losing out like the example.. but have noted a change in the last year though, way less cd sales, way more download sales...
BUT.. everytime i do a show, i seem to sell at least one or two cd's...so its worth having a few...
another trick that seems to work for me.. go local.. got a coffee shop u spend time in? see if you can have ur music played in background and sell cd's there... it works! for me at least it has.. i have sold heaps through this method, i suppose its genre dependant..a metal album might not go down well..but i do lounge, ambient and it works nicely...target small places, use the connections you have.. have a cd stand.. people seem to get behind it..supporting local music...word travels etc but yeah downloads are the 99% for me also.
Hi Derek,
Nuff thanks for your continue music subjects this is a ratio of cavassing and not creating a buzz demand
Truth is people will do what any trying person has to do when trying something to get off the 0%-10% ratio...
The way forward as many of the fellow artists/musicans/writers have stated is the tried and tested approach of having a real buzz on your live shows that will transpire to your merch/sales outlets...
Having being told by record companies that no one will sign a artist that is cold on the music scene it must be the same for formants markets as some have rightly said...
My point is all the hooks and hypes are give aways and real fans deserve insentives when they are buying into your company so having a hotline and trust of doing your ground works stirring up the masses is a must thru live shows to get the feedback that we all expect when we put out our products that will sell if there is a demand feedback...
On putting out my earlier vynals I was always advice to create a demand for the releases, an advert is not really a demand you have to get a buzz going to make people buy into your products via the grapvine is best word of recomendation...
The grapevine for roots reggae music markets as the buzz is still a release vynal record ie 7" 10" 12" as long as the tune is good to go and promoted by the big bubbling sound systems the word of mouth is like instance demand on the streets that filters to the music radio networks where there are djs that will pick up on the grapevine of the streetvibes from word of mouth in the sessions and they pump up the volume of receptors at large who inturn may buy a copy to add to their collections or even put it on their playlists that they are airing on their own website radio networks...
Cds have almost regress in the markets and are almost partly promo items as this formant is not a demand no more as it represent old digital techno with all the new type of digital release formants mp3s ipods digicards digistrips (wristbands)...
Reggae is always moving in a live arena be it live shows or sound systems I see a market to bring on with trust as the genre of music is moving in the right crowd as I see why it's vital to stick to the rivers that you know and look after your true fans who will tell you how long they have been a fan on facebook or a next place to circulate your buzz even your own website (your original myspace)...
It's good to speculate to accumulate tho the buzz demand has got to be hot like fresh bakes and cool like sky-juice (crush ice strawberry syrup mixture)to hook the average busy Bob who like his music as neat and sweet...
Gather your musicans and put out a good tune to stand up in the dance perform live and connect with fans and streetvibes and that will get demand buzzing cause "music is the nectar of life it inspires us to move and unite"...
Stay true to beat the ression blues by the things we pick and the way we choose...
Biggest respect for all the efforts of the independent labels who did get vibes to create a record label and without much cash they venture willing and able to turn the corners into production table more strength to strength for future buzz to enable demand that your products may be fruitful and flow stable...
Tho to try is no great harm as your experience will stop you from being forlorn so be happy for what you can do and create a buzz buzy Bob & "The Good That You Do"(MWUS-OOI)Moon Wave Music debut relaese 12" in 87'to be repress on the AA side of the MWMUS 015 "Victory Dance" 10" single 2010...
One Love& Guidance
Wayne-mwm
just like each industry has its typical gross margin profit (e.g. in software it's high; in low-tech it's low, etc.), the same applies in conversion rates, and selling a physical good is due to record a low conversion rate... such is life.
I've done the same thing but with not so many CDs. I think live playing is best, and maybe connecting with the audience by giving away CDs for a while, and build small followings. Then they get bigger, then start selling slowly. Sometimes though, I feel like I'm flying aimlessly in all directions. Thanks Derek
Good article. Though World Wide Recession, we have to keep on producing, and selling our products. What would be the prospective? The base -I think- to make it is: The number of sales of the first CD (or the second, or the third, and so on) multiplied by 3, and adding at that result the quantity of new fans that assist to the shows. That number will be very approximetive to the sales of a new release in the first year. I proved it. And constantly (CONSTANTLY) exposure -benefical shows are a very good experience for a musician/producer: When you are only a musician, you feel quite good to make a brave collaboration with a health center, a public school, etc., aiding to collect funds; when you're also a producer, you'll perceive the community insertion of your product growths (and that's not a "bad thing", don't feel ashamed or guilty to think about it: Think you're receiving from people something you've given to them -there are two ways, allways: Do it well, and you'll receive well, probably DOUBLED!).
I beg your pardon for my English - I hope my message could be undestood.
Best regards (I'm not a believer, it's just a Mother Nature's behaviour... There's allways a compensation!)
I know I have made the same error more than once! I have a friend with a marvelous invention. He began his analysis with $1 share of every barrel of oil his device could help produce. Phenomenal numbers! He is still struggling to get people to even try his device. Music is the same. I have had to ask the questions "Why would anyone go to my site? Why would anyone listen? Why would anyone download?" Truth is, no one will without some serious encouragement - good sound, engaging message, intriguing melody, visibility.
Lou
Never give up! Never give up! Never give up! One doesn't have to spend thousands of dollars on marketing any longer. Keep promotions going every day in small ways and they will add up to get them sold. Do at least 3 small things a day toward promotions and you will see results toward that 1%.
Kellie Frazier dot com
Nothing will beat a failure but someone who tries"" Sometimes it takes a few bruises to make sucess.
Ms.Dimples
Waiting On Love
In his shoes, I think that the correct planning should have come out by answering the following questions:
1) Which kind of people would appreciate most my CD?
2) How can I reach the most of those people in the most efficient way (e.g. in terms of quantity/cost)?
3) Which kind of ad could really interest them?
4) How many are them? And which conversion rate I expect to achieve?
5) On the base of my estimate, will my expected selling income comfortably cover and justify the ad costs?
If Yes, I go on with my plan.
If No, I come back to point 2) and find a cheaper but still efficient way to reach my target.
Dear Derek, what do you think about?
I wish you a wonderful day,
Gabriele
Hmmmm, sound sfamiliar. A former manager thought along these lines and manufactured several thousand CD's (and cassettes), vairous artists involved. Each oof the musicians involved got 'his/her' portion, each enountered the same results, no sales, even after a big ad was placed in a local magazine. That was 1998. Many of us still have boxes of the CD's in storage. Some of us now hand them out as free samples. So, now, we, the musicians, only make 'on demand', 1, 2,4, or 4 copies as needed and have 'lined up' with CD manufacturing (like Disc Makers) just in case. My advice, think big, aim for greater than that 1%, but don't invest too heavily in stock, unless you're already a multi millionaire. If/when the orders do start coming, you can always have the CD's made with usually a three to four day turnaround. Most people are used to a 1 to 6 week waiting period for receiving of their CD's. Whatever the case, as indicated above, dream big but give yourself a bit of breathing space finanhcially, unless you're going for that 'starving musician' look.
interesting case. That's the problem of a monodimensional strategy.
It's a pity the guy trusted only in that.
There are tangential activities to do in order to gain visibility. Just buying ads won't work as well as old days
Before you buy ads answer: Who Cares?
Amen, on your post Mr.Sivers. Same with books. Word of mouth and current news sells books. Speaking (playing your music) and selling direct (at your gig) to a crowd sells. Selling books and or CD's is tough...
I remember running a radio ad (series) about $800 in 1985 a lot of money for me then. The ads ran but the phone didn’t ring. We had a clever ad for a seminar (hired talent soundFX) and I was sitting by the phone.
People have so much going on in their lives, you have to be able to break through. I am just as jaded. I delete hundreds of sure fire, best thing since sliced bread opportunities every day. I don’t even open the emails. If it comes by junk mail it goes right to the can.
Now most of the news seems like junk mail, spam, or an infomercial.
We receive our information in narrow niches that we control, that sooth or feed our biases.
I can’t think of anything advertised on TV or radio that I have bought in years, magazines even longer.
Unless you can answer who cares? I am not sure how advertising can be profitable. You need permission nowadays to interrupt people--we don’t have to wait for a random ad. If we want something we know where to find it--on Google....
I have about 10,000 customers through my business that I own and have sold 1,000 CD's to 10% of them. How, most know that I'm a musician and some would say, "Give me a CD and 'tack' on the $10.00 to my bill". My advertisment was free and 1 out of 10 bought my music. Whatever works!
Perhaps this person would have been better advertising 'available now on iTunes' or 'listen now on Rhapsody,' or setting up a site on Bandzoogle.com, which allows you to sell downloads direct.
Based on your previous post, Derek, wouldn't it have been better for this artist to take an ad out and say: "The First 500 people to reply to this ad wil receive a FREE CD. IF you like it, you can send us what you think it is worth!"
On the subject of cd's in storage. I ordered 1k of my first solo cd. The plant messed up the first run so to make it up they sent me 1500 the second time. I managed to get rid of about 500 in promotion; got about 20 decent reviews and good internet play. Sold perhaps 20. The rest sat in my garage for 4 years. It never felt good to see them. About 4 months ago, I started putting one 100-cd box in the recycling bin each week. The stack is growing smaller, and so is my remorse.
Thanks for the reminder.
"If only" is a dangerous place live.......I still have a few FULL boxes of my CDs in the closet. I feel just as happy when I give them away...still sharing my joy in making music.
"PEEETER LEMONGELLOOOO... JUST LISTEN TO THAT VOICE..." the TV ad droned!
Do you remember this guy?
From Wikipedia:
"Peter Lemongello is an American singer from Islip, Long Island, New York.
In 1976, he became the first person to sell a million records through a television direct marketing campaign.
He also was the first entertainer to underwrite a television direct Ad campaign selling shares in the project to private investors.
Using a city-by-city marketing strategy, he and his partners began their Love ‘76, Ad campaign on late-night TV in New York, New York on January 1, 1976 targeting all six New York metropolitan channels 70 to 100 times a week.
The album, Do I Love You, a two-record set took off slowly at first selling 43,000 copies in New York, Connecticut and New Jersey in 13 weeks.
After signing with Private Stock Records, in April 1976 they began the same campaign in Los Angeles and Las Vegas and the album began to sell on an unprecedented level attracting widespread media attention."
He's still around!
Using his Las Vegas crooner voice!
I don't know.....I don't do a lot of advertising. I'm actually more interested in creating than in selling. That said, it's important that the product itself be good, that people can go somewhere and hear bits of it before they buy and that word-of-mouth is being generated (that's gold these days).
My album's sold pretty well via cdbaby and hardly at all on my website since I switched from hostbaby to my own site. It looks great but can't get enough traffic there now and it's hurting sales a lot.
Staying active on your site helps a great deal too, something I'm not good at. Lesson learned; it's not enough to have a good product if no one's going to hear it. I did magazine reviews, online reviewers, etc, and that helped a good deal. Hired a PR firm for that for a few hundred.
Thinking positively is wonderful but not enough; it has to be backed up by plain old hard work and time.
Lets just face it, no one is buying anything right now. I was just at a huge car show where people usually buy something. No one was buying anything this year. Bad times right now. But I'd have to say the best way to sell merch is at a live event.
With digital downloads taking over, we as Artist must not print more than 500 units at a time. Maybe even less.I find that I am sitting in a room of CD'S sometimes.
Michelle Carr
Kinda negative spin on this, isn't it? How about showing the success stories and not the failures...cuz you draw to you what you believe. I'm happy for him, because he at least TRIED something. Most of us do not even try. My mentor (who has a multi-millionare pkg co for Sony, Gerber, Kelloggs and Coca-Cola etc)says "You fail often to succeed only once". He gave example of a computer...that the ticking sound you hear when it's searching is the computer failing...and then a few seconds later, it succeeds... it FINDS what it was looking for.
We are taught "I will call on 10 to buy my goods while the failure makes grand plans to call on one."
Myself? I am doing well, I am no longer in the read with my cd...and am in the studio working on a 2nd CD. I am a FIRM BELIEVER that whenever GOD gives the vision, He also gives the PROVISIONS (Pro)visions. When you do what HE says...it works like clockwork. The problem is a lot of people leave God out of it.
I'm a performing artist and I've worked in the advertising business.
Advertising can't guarantee sales and if someone is out there promising that - walk away. They're liars.
Advertising can't even guarantee you exposure. If it's in an envelope the person holding it has to open the envelope...they have to pull out the piece(s) of paper...they have to read what's on it...they have to believe/care about what they're reading...they have to decide to take an action based on that information...and finally, they have FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THE ACTION (i.e. buy the product).
That's a lot of "ifs" and no size or quality or QUANTITY of advertising can guarantee squat!
Typical mail marketing campaigns are expected to bring back 1 to 1.5% response. If they are followed up with another mailing or phone calls a week later, maybe you can increase that to 2-3%
MAYBE.
Successful mail marketing campaigns require repeated exposure - 3 to 4 times before the recipient may decide not to throw it away without looking at it.
Today the best bet is to build an online following through social media networking and let them help to spread the word.
Back in the 1970's when in engineering and production was still male-dominated in the industry, a handful of women started their own record labels and sound engineering companies and distribution networks. Alix Dobkin's "Lavender Jane Loves Women" spread across the country like wildfire by WORD-OF-MOUTH MARKETING. Political camps call it "grassroots networking" - WHATEVER! - IT WORKS.
Incidentally, one of those all women-owned, women operated record labels who featured only women artists, and mostly Lesbians at that, is today a multi-million dollar operation called “Olivia.”
Somebody further up on the chain already said it..People buy from someone they know, like, trust...so if a friend recommends a CD to me I'm more likely to buy it than just looking at a poster.
Why do you think they have "critics?" Because some people think those guys/women have some kind of superior knowledge so they buy based on "the experts" recommendations.
If you're going to be in business you need to have a business plan. If you don't, it's a lot like going to the airport and saying "I want to buy a ticket" and not knowing your destination.
You may think you now where you want to get to but if you don't know all the steps in logical order, you won't get there.
There are organizations that help small businesses for free. Find one online or at the local Small Business Administration office. Or join a business networking group who help their members grow their business, not just meet for coffee and danish once a week.
If you're a musician who wants to get known...you're in business...the business of promoting yourself. If you can't hire a promoter or publicist then you better "get smart" about business or impulsive attempts to "do the right thing" will bite you in the a-- and you may be left holding 10,000 CD's with no one to buy them.
Nice article Derek.
For my 1st CD I duplication 100 CD's and put them up on CDbaby and handed them out and sold some to friends and family but mostly I gave a lot a way for free.
By the time my second CD came out I pressed 200 and put them on CDbaby and I had a CD release party and sold some there. I hope that people who bought my first CD will buy or download my second. I still hope to send lots of CD's out to people for free to expose them to my music and to for people to review on website etc.
It's just how you go about it.
I think social media is one way to expose yourself and I totally think putting your music on CDbaby.com is also a great outlet.
p.s. Check my new CD. If you like electronic/techno music like Moby or Prodigy you will love my music!
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/djsaltyflavor2
I have had a thirty year music career. I haven't had a day job in decades. Recordings have played a part for a long time, but I am frequently in front of audiences of the very young or very old where I have no expectations of CD sales.
Still it is very satisfying to sing with seniors and kids!
When I get an audience that buys lots of CDs it's a bonus!
www dot richbaumann dot com
an ad, unless it is brillant, can't make people dance, sing along, get the tingle, make you want to mingle. tune up the body mind soul, give it to you good.
live & recorded wonderful music will do it.
bright musical ways
ian the being
Honestly? I collect my fans one at a time. ONE AT A TIME. I groom the relationship. My sales are slow, because I haven't been able to perform live in a long while. And I send MP3's through e-mail free to anyone that requests them. I totally agree with the grass-roots scenario. One by one, every fan/friend is important to me. Obviously, I don't care about getting rich and famous or I would have quit making music a long time ago!
Love you Derek!
Hey at least give the guy credit for have the balls to go for it and take a chance on himself.
Sometimes long shots win the game..
Colie
You have to build the interest little by little through live shows. The percentage of people who actually buy a cd from an unknown artist heard only online is very small. I've had one who checked the site, left a nice comment about two songs but still didn't buy a cd. Live shows, the audience interest is right there and if you get to them, they're more likely to want a cd. Don't we all do that when we are the audience?
With all the hype out there of music promotion entrepreneurs it's nice to hear the voice of reason. I start each project with the hope that I won't lose too much money as if I was buying a lottery ticket. I sell CDs at live events and I was realistic; I joined cdBaby because it was cheapest way to get a bar code.
what is a cd?
Hahahaha.....I love that story!! The lesson for me is this: Regardless of all the physical and financial planning and mental gymnastics I put myself through, I can never predict how people will respond in the end. Sometimes we forget that not only do we have minds of our own,...so do other people. I can't decide in advance what other people will like and how they will react. Sometimes creating and presenting our art is letting go of a feather in the wind. You can never predict how far it will go or where it will end up.
I read all these different comments and conclude the current state of (the) music (industry) is in a flux...which I'm pretty sure we know this already.
'This' works for 'that' person and 'that' works for 'this' person. No one plan works for everyone. Nothing is settled or set in stone as the way to be successful in music.
Most of us are trying out all the (new) ideas we read of in articles or blogs by fellow musicians and 'their' success.
For me, the longer I do this the more I see what works is being true to who I am. I can say of myself that I am not a super-entrepreneur with visions of big business and big dollars. I like being a "normal joe", therefore I may only ever make "normal joe" money with music. That's okay...for me.
So, my conclusion is, I cannot tell you how to be successful in music, you'll have to figure it out along with the rest of us. Because it's in flux, and none of us know 'thee' way.
In response to # 46 your sellig because your music is good I listned, Cool stuff
And # 45 Music sells music Ya man I think so.
Through cd baby I've sold slightly under 300 cds and am thrilled.
I know it sounds silly,but I haven't advertised, I recorded it as a demo and it's kinda raw.My guitar playing can use some work, 10 years at 12 hours a day should help.
I didn't expect any sales, just documenting the songs for copyright until I could polish it up. But a friend suggested cdbaby, which I had never heard of.
OK 35 bucks sling it against the wall an see if anything sticks.
The cool part is exotic sales like Greece, Thailand, Malta, Some countries I can't figure where they are, now that's "fn" cool,
Derek If it weren't for you I wouldn't have had the thrill.
Thank you man, thank you, thank you thank you
When does your non compete clause run out?
kw
very truly said and everybody "in business" must must understand this ....
I am a lawyer and I do (and sometimes sell) music too. That's because I'm seeking to do something new all the times.
Fortunately I never did a business plan for my music, because it costs time and money and I don't want to spend money to do music.
The percent syllogism "if only one percent ..." is very common in the law profession.
"Hey Mr. Cremona, how many chance do I have to win the case ?"
I get this question all the times and I dread it.
My normal answer is "there's a medium right at the bottom of the lane for that".
If I say it quick and with the biggest smile, it sounds like a joke and I manage to get away without answering .....
This scenario is very familiar! I once ordered an extra 100 CD's because I was doing this gig where there would be at least 500 people ( or so I was told). So mathematically, I was like, at least 20% of the people will buy a CD. I only sold 20 that night. I'd like to think it was because it was a party where people did not bring $$$, it was a surprise appearance that was not advertised and people were just not buying that night. In any case, lesson learned! Of course, everybody wanted one for FREE! LOL
I have tried advertising before, and every time I did it, I wasted almost the entire cost. I don't do it any more. It is expensive and does not bring in business. Take the money you are thinking of paying out for advertising, and, instead, pay yourself to play for free somewhere. You are far more likely to sell CDs and get paying gigs doing that than by advertising. Enough said.
If you play a great gig and everything is perfect 10-15% of the people in the audience will buy a CD. If you want to advertise to get them to buy CDs, everything needs to be coordinated--they need to hear you on the radio, see your ad, see your poster, talk to other people and then see you live, and maybe they'll buy a CD.
uhmm always amazes me what works and what doesnt. mags are incredibly expensive for ads and you gotta have a new niche these days anybody know any ultra gay
psychic christian melitia players
that just may fly.....on the wierd alone. i have an idea get hold if interested --smoogee88@yahoo.com
if you do music for the money, you'd be better looking elsewhere.
as for this fella getting 10k cd's, he's be better using them as business cards and giving some of them away
To Robin (post #199):
Playing live sales being 10-15%...sometimes, sometimes not. Who knows why? Variables. Great show, huge audience, 2% CD sales. Was it the venue, the time of day, the town? Okay show, small audience, 100% CD sales. Why?
Nice when you can learn vicariously.... Thanks
I have lost faith in printed (on paper or on a web site) ads. I thought I was modest when I printed 500 CD's. So far (a year after the release), I have sold 12 of them, and my impression is that this is not bad for an independent artist like me
I tested the "Promote a song" -feature at ilike.com and spent USD 25 to get 5421 views of my ad. How many of those clicked on the ad? 29. And how many of those 29 clicks resulted in a purchase of my CD? Zero.
Hey Derek. I would love to see a follow up to this question with consolidated responses. I bet that most indie musicians think this way regardless of all the info countering it. Thanks, BK
Goes to show that it takes more than an advertisement to get people to notice and pay attention to whoever you are and whatever you're doing. I've been on TV a number of times, performed in front of thousands, but only sold a handful of CDs from each performance. Perhaps...TV is no longer the best way to spread music...VH1 and MTV have proved that with all the hype they put into pop culture...without as much talent as some of the amazingly talented indie artists out there working their tails off for their own CD sales. Perhaps the best way to spread music is to keep playing it wherever you go...for free, if needs be, just to get it out there to people who are definitely not going to look you up on facebook, unless they've already heard of you anyway.
Music could use a little help from our friends...Where have all the listeners gone?
At home on their computers...facebooking, twittering and procastinating. For what? For something that's been around since time began...music that moves them. Well, if music could move anyone, let's hope it does it soon.
Don't procastinate. Great music is right around the corner...at your local coffee shops and taverns.
Get our and about and support your community. Spend your dough in your town, on things made from people working in your town. Save lives. Save jobs. Save your mind.
PLEASE SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL MUSICIANS>>> We slave away our whole lives to MOVE you, for nearly nothing in return.
SAVE the music!
peacelovehappiness
Brooke Mackintosh
Always supply what is in really
demanded. Don't go by hypotheticals. Keep a very small
inventory on hand (20cds). You
won't go wrong and you can save
money and time.
Lets see 1 percent of a million is 10,000.
and if he sold 4 cds that's not bad!
I hate to say that!!.
It could of been 0.
but if you look at all the money he spent on his cd's that's not good.
So if he calls 10 million people.
that leaves him with a 100,000 cds he could sell.
so than prepare to sell another 40 cds or 1 percent of that!
Numbers generally don't work in sales do they.
A devoted following of 100 fans will out do a list of 100 000 that have no clue who you are. Case in point - Derek's blog above. The world's washed in music ... do something to stand out. Advertising in the back of a magazine doesn't really make you stick out.
@ Mark Gresham - totally! :D
VERY DARING, BUT GOOD THINKING, THOUGHT OF DOING THAT MY-SELF A FEW TIMEZ. COULD IT BE THAT THE MUSIC INDUSTRY HAZ FORCED A UNACCEPTABLE STYLE OF MUSIC, AND HAZ SCARED THE FANZ AND LISTENERZ TO BE HESITENT ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO HEAR!!!!!!!!!!! I HAVE TO FORCE MYSELF TO TURN THE RADIO ON AND HOPES OF HEARING ONE OF THE BETTER SONGS THAT ARE OUT THERE. "I'VE HEARD A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY THE SAME THING". THANKS FOR THE ARTICLE DEREK, KEEP ON PICKIN!!!
Find the market then place the ad. It helps knowing who and why some one will buy what you got. Leave it to the big guy's to sell to the mass.
Lots of people hear with their eyes, maybe that's what this person was thinking. I admire the optimism and I imagine it must have been a killer add, but most of the time it's hard to get the herd to do anything especially when it comes to pulling money from a wallet, filling out an order form, sealing it all in an envelope, buying a stamp, writing on the envelope, putting it in the mail......or even dialing a phone number and using a credit card is too much effort. And that was probably yesterday, today if it ain't click, click, mine. Forget it..
ya.. unless you're putting that ad in front of your already existing fan base, chances are it won't move.. unless you have colabs with some big names and promote it that way. but again, they already have a fan base. i sale my cds at shows, gas stations, beaches, etc. let them hear it and respect my effort. my shit don't even move online really. my worst song (in my opinion) only sales digitally cause of the name. less is more.
What a sad story.
You can't blame the guy for trying.
Hope indeed springs eternal
absolutely #205.... a hamburger is a hamburger....? Hmmmmm......
"McDonalds"....ALL about the advertising and marketing that kicked that small hamburger stand out of the ballpark...
As someone who was once an avid "vibration" shopper in music stores (read, impulse shopper) and not a musician, but someone who uses music in their own work-I teach dance--I can offer that I never read ads looking for music. I do read reviews. If the review is striking, then I will go in search of the music online. But I am much more likely to buy music on-line through keyword-shopping: I'll put in one word and buy 10 songs with that word in it from bands I've never heard of, just because I was interested in that word. Might sound slightly crazy, but I began to buy CDs from artists I did not know based on the album cover art on the suggestion of a friend who was avidly into alternative music. She was right: most of the artists I discovered that way I now own LOTS of their music and go through flip flops trying to get more of it.
Find your team; you need someone who will pour their soul into your album art the same way you poured yours into your music. And you must be open to their visual interpretation of your sound. Get a publicist/promoter. Someone mentioned giving out free songs, but also look into selling licenses of your music for film, video games, tv, conferences, dance instruction (live and on the 'net) and internet usage.
There are many ways to sell music in addition to live shows, magazine ads and radio airplay...
wow that sucks. Well, at least he sold 4... better than nothing...?
VERY DARING, BUT GOOD THINKING, THOUGHT OF DOING THAT MY-SELF A FEW TIMEZ. COULD IT BE THAT THE MUSIC INDUSTRY HAZ FORCED A UNACCEPTABLE STYLE OF MUSIC, AND HAZ SCARED THE FANZ AND LISTENERZ TO BE HESITENT ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO HEAR!!!!!!!!!!! I HAVE TO FORCE MYSELF TO TURN THE RADIO ON AND HOPES OF HEARING ONE OF THE BETTER SONGS THAT ARE OUT THERE. "I'VE HEARD A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY THE SAME THING". THANKS FOR THE ARTICLE DEREK, KEEP ON PICKIN
The Industry pays for others to fail,because they buys most Radio program and its DJ . Whats the saying, Money talks --------------
Here's another thought...
A friend of mine recently returned from France (his wife's band is touring Europe). He was there long enough to observe that people over there love music, go out to see live music, buy lots of music (digital mostly).
I've noticed with my own CDs that there's a higher appreciation in the UK, and Europe, for my Fingerstyle album than here in the US.
I know that in a lot of Europe the arts are taught in all grades of school. It's mandatory that students learn some form of art. I think this creates a natural, and very high regard, for the arts and those that create the art.
Here in the US the arts have been stripped from school curriculum. No money 'they' say. Kids are raised without a knowledge of, an interest in, or respect for art of any kind.
Our culture does not nurture or readily promote interest in the arts. Music appreciation is pretty much non-existent.
Just observation.
Great insight Derek! Keep 'em comin!
It's a new era, I don't feel one can go backwards . Unless you have major money behind your art, buying your notoriety, so to speak, it's a lot of effort for a waste of time.... good music sells to whoever hears it, but times are changing. Entertainment as I see it, is not the most important theme of the day. It's more about survival, and something real to hold onto . Systems are changing rapidly and will continue to do so. If music can't be more than a sales pitch, it won't keep them coming... Love to all...Rachel
If you're an unknown writer or artist, I suggest doing something thematically, musically, lyrically, graphically, production-wise, or imagewise that less than 1% of 1% would either consider putting out there or would be uniquely capable of...something that separates you from 99.9% of everyone. If you can't think of what that may look like, that's OK...you're on the right track.
That's my approach, years in the making.
Wow, how true. Most of us start off saying if we can get 1 - 4 % of the people we reach to buy our music. We then find out that we did not choose the best approach. Build your fan base first then do your Press release along with advertisement.
Never underestimate the power of a support network: your church, your school, or any kind of community in which you participate. If you don't have one, develop one or more. These people will listen to you and will want to buy your recordings, because you are part of their world. It costs nothing and will reap FAR more sales than any ad.
Some people have said you can't predict how many CDs you can sell at a show. Another person put it in the 10-15% range.
I think you can predict it, on an artist-by-artist basis, after you have tracked sales at enough shows.
I sold merch for one artist and we developed a business plan based on three years of sales data. I rarely, if ever, saw a sales rate that fell below 1 CD per 10 people in the audience. At times it could go as high as 4 CDs per 10 people.
She played everything from 50-capacity coffee houses to festivals in front of 2000, averaging 200 shows per year. So we tested it in a variety of settings. We felt that expecting to make a sale of 1 CD per 10 people was conservative based on her past history.
Now, other artists aren't so successful, so you can't automatically assume that everyone can sell to 10-15% of the audience. But there should be some sort of baseline for each artist if that artist plays enough shows. Until you have a track record that runs over 100 - 600 shows, you may not be able to predict, but in time you should have some sense of how well the artist can do.
...too many of us know that there is a number below 1%. But, this is a wake up call to do your homework. And...what's the name of that new Derek venture? 'Muckwork' something to do with people who will do your leg work, so you can create the music...I'm lookin' forward to that!
No matter what your ad copy says, if they haven't heard you, if they don't know who you are, why should they buy?
We make mistakes when we try an idea, but our greatest mistake is not trying any idea. Venture is success but not always.No venture, no success.
Times are much different. The days of concentrated media are gone for good, replaced by a deep specificity of a thousand niches. Hannah Montana is the model for mass sales, Disney corporation backing, Colossal amounts of money poured in,(with the proviso that it must be a very young person that will be able to deliver return on money over time) excessive branding and very very tight exclusivity in radio, best buy, walmart etc. are the top down big sales models. She works very very hard also, there is no free lunch.
Is it more often 10 units of resources put in for 1 back is the usual average model for most not-knowns?
For the unknown entity things are Extremistan in the desert. Accuracy in use of energy, money and other resources is of high importance. Frequently it is best to understand that you can make more money with your money by managing it, letting it do the work. What leads to generation of money with music is next to impossible to predict, since wild events skew the results and we see the small handful of people that gain greatly in the media but not the hoards of dish washing Sisyphus's. Cash is king and precision cannot be over-valued. Spend 50,000 dollars on advertising? Are you sure you might not turn that in to a million dollars by getting the right asset class? If you have millions of dollars it is much more pleasant to mount an advertising campaign than to dump precious survival money into nebulous Quixotic adventures if your budget is tight. The millionaire writes and plays the music they want to, in the time frame that they want to with no pressure. Orin Hatch has more reach with his music than many of the geniuses that struggle in obscurity across the country. This is a top down world on average, (the lottery gets hit in the music business by very exceptionally lucky people also but don't count on getting hit by lightening unless you curse the gods) so when you use your money you should be the house and not the roulette wheel gambler. Be precise and you might end up with your cake and eat it too. Maybe.
Be precise.
I did this but on a much smaller level, I printed up 2,000.
I’m so glad I set myself free when I was still in my early 30’s and didn’t wait until I was 45 and bitter about the fact that no one ever heard my music. How? One of the wisest decisions I have ever made in my life was in February of 2007, to invest $20,000 (and 1,500 hours of my time) in a massive online promotion giving away my music to the world. I gained a global fan base and confirmed all my suspicions (like the fact that the world would love my music IF only they got the chance to hear it!). Perfect.
And by the way, the songs I gave/am giving away aren't demos I recorded on a four track tape deck, I have well over 6 figures invested into them. Just wanted to put things into perspective there of WHY I feel SO free now, I have just LET GO and I will continue to let go more and more.
Check it out if you wish...
www.nikoonline.com/free-music
For a very low cost, you can:
go online, setup a blog, spread your work for free, allow people to buy your work, communicate who you are, get linked to by thousands of people, become part of discussions on other blogs (and receive traffic from those blogs), build your brand, communicate about your gigs, centralise your efforts to communicate your work, get people excited about what you do... and you can do this for as long as you want to.
So if you can do all this, then is it still important to buy paper advertisements. The answer is YES!
The only reason why you should buy a paper advertisement is: you want to push people to visit your stuff online.
Ads are teasers. They don't realy sell anything. They make people aware of the existence of something. They point to something. In this case, they should point to a system that gives people the opportunity to get connected to your work and stay connected. And the only way for them to connect to your stuff at all times, is when you persuade them to come to your online lair.
Once they know where to find you online, it is much easier for them to pay you a visit.
Once they are in your digital home, you could have them then: sign up to a newsletter (keep them updated) or join in on discussions on a forum, browse through your site and music, or you could give them a special deal if they input a certain password upon purchase (yep, you put the password on the paper advertisment - for tracking purposes, so you know how many people converted to buyers)
Basicaly, what you want to do online is to give your potential audience a decent feel of what you are all about, what you are doing and what they can expect from you in the future.
AND not to forget, blogs are excellent if you want to recieve feedback, as illustrated on this blog.
Isn't that right, Derek?
If after his best efforts he had sold as many cds as possible, he should have used his money to distribute the cds as free promos while getting the names and addresses of all those he gave the cds to. Then once having gotten rid of all 10,000 then he could then say that he moved 10,000 cds. Then he should have taken the names of all those he distributed the album to, added them to his mailing list, made a second cd and sent fliers to those on the mailing list and then see if he could sell the second cd. Because if the guy can afford to print up 10,000 cds, he must be made of money, or know how to get money for future projects.
so... there was that DVD called "800 CDs" or something... this guy will need the "9996 CDs" video.
My thought that it's always better to have DEMAND before SUPPLY.
It takes seven years to get overnight success. My husband has been in the business from his youth. He was well known in Europe but in New York he has to start from scratch. Tenacity and the love for people will do the trick.
Instead of focusing on sales, it's sometimes better to focus on the product itself. Whether it's an iPhone app or a music cd, a great product will be easier to market if the product can speak for itself. In the iPhone app market, creating a great product is the first step. The audience will always follow, if what's being offered is worth it.
Didn't take into account that 1% of subscribers/purchasers of the mag might not have even opened it to that page, or opened it at all.
But I gree with what people above have said. Sales at the venues right after shows are where artists like us make the the most. Print is just one more way to remind people that you are out there. Just get your name and image into their heads in as many ways as possible. But - and this is really it - you actually have to be good, and people have to actually like what you do. Get them to the venues!
I've always considered my CDs primarily as more of a business card - a really expensive buisness card - that helps to get me into venues. Once I'm in, I can get some sales. And, hopefully, some new fans who will spread the word to potential new fans.
What is happening to CD baby????? Have no response form them in 20 days and now customers e-mailing me to say have paid for Cds and not had any word or CD from CD baby - as I can't get a response from them - do you still have anything to do with it ......... it seems not - cos they used to be amazing!!!!
If only he had a blog and knew his target demographic, then maybe he could have direct marketed...mass media ad campaigns are a thing of the past. See also: http://bit.ly/E6ASC
The more hooks you have in the water the more fish your apt to catch. But you have to use the right bait. The kind they're hungry for. There are days the fish don't bite. Some days you spend more on bait than what the fish market price is. But if you love to fish your still gonna fish. I love to play music. K Sir rah sir rah.
I had to laugh when I read this, because I thought similarly when I came into the business. I was so sure I would be sign by a label. I just wanted $10,000 in advancements. Even starting my own label I had high expectations. (smile) The deal with a label did not happen. Selling all my cds in a few months did not happen. But I was so glad when I sold 15 cds on the first day. (wow)
Paula
Yeah that's the tough part about selling CD's. Some people's products seem to have "legs" and just take off like crazy...others have a good product, but just can't make it happen as far as sales no matter how hard they try or how much money they spend...I suppose it comes under the category of "go figure."
Derek, this is my first comment and I noticed you got many comments on this issue. Thank you for what you do.
An advertisement in a magazine does not sell CDs. The right contact at the right time does.
Live shows. People like to know about the artist a bit more than just an advertisement. People connect at some level with the artist and then buy the CD.
In my experience, I know that if people get to hear me (pianist), they will buy the CD. What comes first, the chicken or the egg? Live performances comes first.
With so much advertising flooding our lives, an ad can only go so far .. about as far as a myspace page.
Not only are there an infinite number of numbers between 0 and 1, there are just as many between 0 and 1 as between 0 and a million.
Mathematically speaking, that is, because you can make a "mapping" from each number between 0 and 1 to a corresponding number from 0 to a million and prove that your mapping will "work" and hit all the numbers.
In fact, there are more numbers between 0 and 1 than the infinite set of "Counting Number" 1, 2, 3, ...
In other words, just as there is a "mapping" for 0-1 to 0-1,000,000, it has been proven by Georg Cantor's Diagonal Theorem that there can NOT be a mapping for 1, 2, 3, 4, ... to all the numbers between 0 and 1. There are way too many numbers between 0 and 1 that won't get hit by any mapping you try to come up with. Guaranteed.
All this just goes to say that advertising to a billion people still might not get enough sales to launch your career. Ask any major label, and they'll tell you it's so.
hi guys
maybe it's simple - advertising music doesn't work at all unless there is genuine, and most likely substantial, interest in the music in the first place - and this generated through the usual channels : radio, net, live performance, word-of-mouth, etc.
Advertising works best for standardised 'functional objects' (tvs, cars, food, fridges) where there are small, but marketable, differences in essentially the same products - consumers then make their choice based on price, distinguishing features and other variables.
I hope this story is allegorical!
Just went to a songwriting workshop with veteran songwriter Ralph Murphy. According to Ralph: of the 108,000 CDs that were made in North America in 2008, less than 6,000 of them sold over 1,000 copies...
I find (while anticipating the release of my 3rd cd) that people only buy my cds when they have heard me live OR listened on the internet. Live shows, i do plan on 3-5% of audience buying-which usually pans out-given my attention to selling! mary
Hilarious!!! =)
Oh yea, and speaking of advertising... Ever think of t-shirts and CDs themselves as an advertising cost?
That is an eye opener.
I'm a copywriter, and business owners often don't realize that 1% can be a pretty good conversion rate. I'm thinking more of online sales letters. But for him to get one out of 100 people to buy his CD, he needs to have a great ad. It should be professionally written and designed. And as others have said here, even given that, he'll do better in a medium where people can hear his songs (like a concert). So don't let him go hiring a designer and copywriter! ;-)
Now before I was a copywriter, I might have thought 1% was a pretty tiny number to aspire to also.
I HATE this kind of thinking. Just about everyone inexperienced in marketing uses it! Why do people put their hopes on one ad?
I prefer online marketing to print. So much less expensive. I would've send out an online press release with keywords.
Given copies to bloggers who expressed an interest. Ran Facebook ads to my target market. Run some sponsored tweets to people with followers I wanted to reach).
That ad budget would've gone a lot further! And I bet got more sales.
Janet
I think we have all been there at one time or another.
The are millions of posibilities but success comes one customer at a time. This economy has forgotten about the individual and has concentrated on the masses in distress! Living the American Dream!
Blessings and may your day be filled with Dream-Adventures!
Jim
. . .and FREE is the price - the exactly right price - for something nobody is willing to pay for. Now there's a huge rush to compete with FREE. The more free there is, the less people are willing to pay for something they perceive to be similar, so the vast majority of the long tail will end up being FREE, whether, or not, it's creators intended it to be. That's going to be one of the factors that separates the "haves" from the "have nots". With all the free stuff out there, it's harder to create something that anyone is willing to pay for. The 1-4-15-40-40 breakdown of the 80-20 rule will still apply but the actual numbers will be far more concentrated at the head. Just about everybody loves music but today musicians are plentiful. The cost of making the music has dropped, just like the cost of desktop publishing has dropped - almost to zero. Distribution via MySpace, and other online downloads, drops to zero. Who even uses CDs anymore? This is another great example of a guy who's too cheap to buy competent industry expertise but has enough money pay for all those CDs and wrappings.
We just performed for a group of college students who had never heard us before, and didn't know a thing about us..
From looking at them,one could have thought they didn't even hear us...
Then after wards, one of them came up to us with money for the tip jar they had taken up as a collection.Moved me to tears..
The secret is there is no secret..Trust your heart, and put your passion out there in the world, the people who like it will act accordingly, the ones who don't aren't for you anyway..You don't have to worry about convincing anyone, ever..
nice blog! Good read for marketing/advertising professionals
Kind of sad to realize most people won't sell any of their music. One of the fundamental errors we all make is to try and sell things that nobody wants (to buy), whether it be our music or any other product.
How about still creating and sharing your music but also selling things (related to your music) that people are buying today?
Scarily correct. I've met zero's and negatives as well... And I've commemorated out loud half percents of success.
I guess if everything is done with love, it doesn't matter at the end.
Work hard, try your best... and love what you do.
Enjoy it.
Another great read by Derek Sivers! Hope to meet you in person someday. Let us know if you're ever in vegas, and thanks for all the great reads/priceless info.
Per vendere un Cd non basta fare la pubblicità su una rivista ma c'è bisogno di tante pubblicità e promozioni quindi ci vogliono tanti soldi per promuoversi e tante raccomandazioni e visto che io non ho nè l'uno nè l'altro non potrò mai vendere i miei Cd.
If only I had 1% of my market... ummmmm
On the Bright side -
Four sales could have been a 400% increase over the previous period.
It's not the % it's the $
The percentages are far better in Community Venues where there is no competition...
Practice Audience Inclusion.
Here's some explanation as to why this method so miserably failed: First off, most publications significantly overstate their readership, because by doing so they can justify their expensive advertising rates. They get away with it because their numbers are hard to disprove.
Second, print advertising is, in our book, one of the very worst ways to promote music! Music must be heard! Not read about. I don't know anyone who buys a CD based upon an print ad, unless the person was already very familiar with the artist/band. So, it might work okay for U2 or Coldplay as supplemental advertising, especially if there is a story or concert element to it, but almost never for a new or undiscovered artist.
The top methods for music marketing, we believe, are radio promotion, retail promotion (though on the decline), live performances, social marketing (Myspace, etc.), video marketing, and various other online marketing techniques.
hey, at least he sold 4....
great read... i've always felt great giving away music for free.. or for a tip... sharing my recordings and getting feedback makes my day worthwhile...
my biggest mistake with my early recordings was once i gave them away.. there was no other source available for income...
i hope this will change as time moves forward and i have more music available..
Thank You Derek! Wonderful food for thought. We live and learn. Learning from other people's mistakes is always the cheapest way of gaining experience. You'll never hit the target if you dont keep shooting.
It must be a typical human trait. I know of people who run for a place on some local elections in Italy who did exactly the same thing--they printed tens of thousand leaflets so if only 1 percent of voters voted them...
Track records determine how much inventory to stock. A friend of mine used to say, "GK, we're going to be huge!" And I'd say, "Based on what?"
I did this when we did our first live radio appearance. I wrote to Cdbaby and begged them to take more than the 30 CD's we had in stock thinking we would move 500-800 CD's just from that one radio appearance. We sold 28.
I don't think it was the actual ad that was at fault. It's just that you have to build awareness of your band over a period of time. People will not buy your C.D. because they saw an ad if they have never heard of you before. They know that anyone can buy an add so the message says nothing to them. They are moved to spend money when they hear about you through something that (they perceive) you did not pay for.
I believe that this failure to accuratly estimate demand is why you see adds stating that delivery will be in 4 to 6 weeks.
If you are not sure what the demand will be, hedge your bet and only invest in the promotion, leaving the production of the item until orders come in.
The benefit of this, beyond not wasting money on product that cannot be sold, but you have the customers money to actualy produce the product.
Why would I buy a CD based on an ad in the back of a magazine?
Maybe this story pre-dates the interweb, but wouldn't it be a better investment to advertise on a medium in which I could sample the music first? A banner-ad to his MySpace page perhaps?
Unfortunately, this is a mistake a lot of would be entrepreneurs make. 1st timers are eager to make sales, and focus more on the product (ie. having something to sell), than on the audience and potential customers. Not that uncommon. The number one goal of an entrepreneur is to create demand not invest in product.
I can't tell you the number of people I know that run out and print 1,000 T-shirts with this or that clever quote or logo on the front, and they sit in the garage because they can't sell them online or anywhere else.
Wow,
Too many comments to feel like posting but I can't help but feel this was one of the best responses-
Ernest Chapman (2009-09-27) #
so what about people who have higher than 1% conversion rates? what are they doing differently?
I would love to try and learn more from those people, awesome post Ernest.
Ricardo Rae.